sand planted goldfish tank

[Gold Finger]

So now I have removed the soil and flourite and sand and switched it for 3 inches of plain white pool filter sand. Goldfish produced too much waste for a substrate which I could not vacuum vigorously.

[Sharpchick]

I love that look.

But Gypsy and Blondie would just total it.

How big is the tank? Is that a moor at the top of the frame?

[Gold Finger]

Who (what) are Gypsy and Blondie?

It's a 48x18x24 80 gallon with a 30 gallon sump.

Yep. He's a 6.5 inch three year old moor.

[Gold Finger]

So here's where I'm at. I am beginning to get a handle on planted tanks and looking to improve on a couple of things this time around. First, I'm trying a substrate which can take a beating, be cleaned to the bottom if need be (to deal with the poo surplus) and last forever. I know that the plants won't grow in as fast as with dirt, but a few members have assured me that the plain PFS will work well and won't stop the plants from growing well, maybe just slow them down, mostly in the first month or two. I may not even need to use root tabs.

The other thing I am planning is to try to plant with a kind of scaped look.
"Kind of" meaning a mix between a jungly scape and a naturalistic look. I don't like an overly designed, calculated, perfect look. People don't seem to think that goldfish suit scapes very well, but I bet they can be put together fairly well. Eating plants hasn't been an issue so far since they only seem to eat certain stem plants and I prefer rosettes and epiphites anyway.

I plan to leave the front and side edges bare sand and densely plant tons of large Anubias and java ferns throughout the middle speckled with a healthy amount of nice lookin crypts such as "Lucens", building this middle part up a bit higher. Finally, I may border it with some kind of vals. Probably Italian. I wish I could use some "Vesuvius", which I think are super cool looking but don't think they would compliment the other plants. It will be based on anubias, which are my favorite plants.

[Gold Finger]

By the way. The barebottom didn't work. root feeders are not happy with their roots hangin in the waves. They need to be buried.

[Gold Finger]

A six foot by 20 inch by 24 inch tank is 150 gallons.
A six foot by 20 inch by 20 inch tank is 125 gallons.
A five foot by 20 by 24 inch tank is 125 gallons.

[Sharpchick]

Originally Posted by Gold Finger

Who (what) are Gypsy and Blondie?

It's a 48x18x24 80 gallon with a 30 gallon sump.

Yep. He's a 6.5 inch three year old moor.

My ryukins, who are master and mistress at uprooting plants and carrying them around their tank.

[Sharpchick]

Originally Posted by Gold Finger

So here's where I'm at. I am beginning to get a handle on planted tanks and looking to improve on a couple of things this time around. First, I'm trying a substrate which can take a beating, be cleaned to the bottom if need be (to deal with the poo surplus) and last forever. I know that the plants won't grow in as fast as with dirt, but a few members have assured me that the plain PFS will work well and won't stop the plants from growing well, maybe just slow them down, mostly in the first month or two. I may not even need to use root tabs.

The other thing I am planning is to try to plant with a kind of scaped look.
"Kind of" meaning a mix between a jungly scape and a naturalistic look. I don't like an overly designed, calculated, perfect look. People don't seem to think that goldfish suit scapes very well, but I bet they can be put together fairly well. Eating plants hasn't been an issue so far since they only seem to eat certain stem plants and I prefer rosettes and epiphites anyway.

I plan to leave the front and side edges bare sand and densely plant tons of large Anubias and java ferns throughout the middle speckled with a healthy amount of nice lookin crypts such as "Lucens", building this middle part up a bit higher. Finally, I may border it with some kind of vals. Probably Italian. I wish I could use some "Vesuvius", which I think are super cool looking but don't think they would compliment the other plants. It will be based on anubias, which are my favorite plants.

When you say "plant anubias and java ferns," are you going to plant them in the sand, or tie them off to something - a rock or piece of driftwood? The rhizome on those plants doesn't take kindly to being planted, and unless there are really long roots already, it's easy for the fish to uproot them.

My goldfish tank has mostly anubias and java ferns. I bought a java fern mat, where the roots were already grown into the mat, and weighted that down on top of the substrate (I'm using gravel), so the roots could continue growing down, but I don't have to worry about burying the tiny little rhizome.

The anubias are tied off to driftwood.

Anything I plant directly in the substrate, I have to protect with some sort of barrier that makes it hard for the fish to get at it. I planted the only crypt to date (a retrospiralis) in a small clay pot, and after it got finished with the melting, it came back nicely. They don't seem to bother the crypt, but again, it's real hard for them to get at it.

I'll be very interested in seeing your aquascape on this tank.

[Gold Finger]

I was speaking loosely when I said "Plant anubias and Java". They will be tied to stuff. Although I have never had much of a problem with uprooting I realize that it is a potential problem with the crypts. I don't want to come home to find em all floating around the tank. Especially since it could easily melt them. maybe I should consider changing them for something which roots more firmly or has a bigger root ball.

[Sharpchick]

Originally Posted by Gold Finger

I was speaking loosely when I said "Plant anubias and Java". They will be tied to stuff. Although I have never had much of a problem with uprooting I realize that it is a potential problem with the crypts. I don't want to come home to find em all floating around the tank. Especially since it could easily melt them. maybe I should consider changing them for something which roots more firmly or has a bigger root ball.

I'd give the crypts a try. If you have some decent sized river stones (too heavy for the fish to move), you can play with making a rock barrier around the crypts and still have space to move one when you need to replace root tabs.

There are quite a few very easy and attractive crypts. I've never tried vals because just about all the goldfish owners I've chatted with have said the fish mowed those down overnight.

Love my fish, but hate seeing destruction of plants.

[Gold Finger]

Thanks. You have really zeroed in on my potential issues quickly. I won't even try the vals then. There are few plants they eat so I shouldn't have much trouble finding a substitute. As for the crypts, I would really hate to give them up. They are key to achieving the look I want. Do you really think they would be un-uprootable because of the rocks?

[Sharpchick]

With crypts, you are going to separate the roots and probably get 2 for 1 before you plant. Usually the way you get crypts is in a little teeny plastic pot with that wool wrap around the roots. When you take that off, you see a tangled mass of roots. (Although I have seen one online source for plants that removes all the leaves before shipping because they say all crypts will melt upon replanting. I say BS to that - I've have two pots of wendtiis in my 20 long that never melted. I'd never buy from them because I'd have to wait for new growth to see if I got what I ordered.)

It will depend on size and weight of rocks, but I think it can be done, especially if you have a crypt that will get some height on it when mature and you locate it around a place where you have driftwood or rocks already. You'd really need to think it through before planting to make sure you can uncover a place as needed for root tabs. And bury those suckers deep, because they can cloud the water if you don't.

A FTS of your tank would help...

[Sharpchick]

Go take a look at the rock work and plants in it on this tank.

It's not the ultimate look you want. But the stacking of river rock can protect the plant roots until they get established.

[Gold Finger]

I have a few wentii in there. Mine didn't melt when I planted them either. Neither did my C. crisp. balensae. They are melted right now due to the barebottom phase I went through after removing the dirt substrate. I will work on getting an FTS.

[Gold Finger]

Originally Posted by Sharpchick

Go take a look at the rock work and plants in it on this tank.

It's not the ultimate look you want. But the stacking of river rock can protect the plant roots until they get established.

It's not the look I want, but I will be building up the whole middle in a mound of rock and wood completely covered in plant mass. The wood is already in. I know bigger crypts would work but really want to use the Lucens if I can. They will be surrounded in rock at their bases. Do you think they will hold? Alterantely, do you know of anything that looks like Lucens but has a bigger root structure?