Callamanus WORMS... updated 2/5/2013

[wkndracer]

Yup! something for everybody. (including snake oil & lemon drops for the kiddies)

A source most would blindly trust. There is absolutely no proof that any treatment will work and all research data to date states nothing effectively eliminates it in fish. Kanamycin specifically has been tested at several dosage levels without evidence of any effect on Mycobacteriosis infected fish. Study proven in laboratory conditions NOT to work.
Kanamycin Sulfate Powder
USE: Gram-negative bacteria and resistant strains of tuberculosis.
Works especially well in salt water aquariums.
DOSAGE: 1/4 teaspoon per 20 gallons of water.
Treat every 24 hours with a 25% water change before each treatment.
Treat for 10 days.
For tuberculosis, use for up to 30 days.
http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/products2.html
Why? Why treat a fish that cannot be cured?

fact: Myco is considered non-treatable.
Research paper after research paper and study after study stating there is no treatment that works and here's someone selling what is proven not to work in lab study. Can you say "let’s make money"?

Do your own due diligence.
Know what you are dumping in your tank.
Know you tanks actual water volume when dosing via solution.

[lipadj46]

who cares? you can buy the meds from there, some that you cannot get elsewhere. I get my dosages from simplydiscus which is second hand from books or from a fish vet in FL.

[msawdey]

one thing i will say as of this morning, which is the final day of the dosage, is that this stuff will kill fish. Essentially, it is a poison to all living organisms in the tank. Most of the fish are holding strong and I will do a big water change tonight

[marko d]

I had the worms in the fall of last year. Golden Wonder Killifish had stopped eating and noticed a while later red worms coming from the vent.

Charles got me the levamisol in very good time. First dose went well and I lost no fish. Re-dosed later as supposed to, lost the killi and 5 neons in a matter of an hour or so. All the other fish seemed to take it a lot harder than the first dose.

I'm assuming they are gone, altho last week I lost a sunset honey gourami out of the blue. Water parameters all in check. The gourami had not been eating any fish food since the last dose, nearly 4 months. Never saw the clear/stringy poo that I have heard can be related to the worms. Don't think it was related to the worms but it has me a little worried. Maybe it was just his/her time to go.

[Bettatail]

Originally Posted by msawdey

one thing i will say as of this morning, which is the final day of the dosage, is that this stuff will kill fish. Essentially, it is a poison to all living organisms in the tank. Most of the fish are holding strong and I will do a big water change tonight

had cardinal and a big school of rummynose, plus some other different kind of fish in the tank at the time, about over 100 spirits but only 11 angelfish(the treatment subject), non of them acting weird or died from the levasole(levamisole) treatment, the tank is 168G.

Go Charles, his levasole is pure for sure, and it is really hard to find pure levasole in the States now, no more production. No confident on imported fish med that contains Levasole, been diluted too much.

[DarkCobra]

Originally Posted by msawdey

one thing i will say as of this morning, which is the final day of the dosage, is that this stuff will kill fish. Essentially, it is a poison to all living organisms in the tank.

That's a bad assumption.

By the time fish have clearly identifiable symptoms, they've got so many worms inside of them that they're already quite weak. And then quite suddenly, the worms die, and must ALL be successfully passed. This is a highly traumatic experience, and a lot can go wrong, resulting in fish death. They may either fail to detach and then rot, or clog up the intestines entirely. The callamanus treatment document linked earlier in this thread makes brief note of this:

"Dead worms inside the fish may cause future mortality."

But more documentation is available elsewhere.

I lost a few fish when I initially treated for widespread callamanus infestation in my tanks. But during the follow-up treatment to knock out any new worms from eggs, no losses. And also no losses during the many, many times I've used it subsequently, using it as part of my standard QT protocol.

[msawdey]

Originally Posted by DarkCobra

That's a bad assumption.

By the time fish have clearly identifiable symptoms, they've got so many worms inside of them that they're already quite weak. And then quite suddenly, the worms die, and must ALL be successfully passed. This is a highly traumatic experience, and a lot can go wrong, resulting in fish death. They may either fail to detach and then rot, or clog up the intestines entirely. The callamanus treatment document linked earlier in this thread makes brief note of this:

"Dead worms inside the fish may cause future mortality."

But more documentation is available elsewhere.

I lost a few fish when I initially treated for widespread callamanus infestation in my tanks. But during the follow-up treatment to knock out any new worms from eggs, no losses. And also no losses during the many, many times I've used it subsequently, using it as part of my standard QT protocol.

I'm not basing that statement off an assumption. I'm basing it off of evaluation and observation of the fish. There is a reason this stuff kills the worms, snails, and crustaceans in a tank. Ultimately, any medication is a poison.

I have no doubt that what you are saying is correct, but not the only variable in the equation. The fish become noticeably sluggish while the tank is dosed. Yes, they do stop eating, but I noticed the sluggishness within an hour of dosing. If you look up the medication, you will see just how potent it is

That post was a follow up post of wkndracers posts of know what you are putting into your tank and make sure you follow the directions. There is an obvious reason to follow charles' instructions which was exactly what I had observed with my fish. If you overdose, it WILL KILL the fish

[msawdey]

Originally Posted by Bettatail

had cardinal and a big school of rummynose, plus some other different kind of fish in the tank at the time, about over 100 spirits but only 11 angelfish(the treatment subject), non of them acting weird or died from the levasole(levamisole) treatment, the tank is 168G.

Go Charles, his levasole is pure for sure, and it is really hard to find pure levasole in the States now, no more production. No confident on imported fish med that contains Levasole, been diluted too much.

Yes, you are correct about the levamisole. This worries me as my research into the topic showed that this is happening more and more among keepers. levamisole appears to be the only viable option of treatment

[DarkCobra]

Originally Posted by msawdey

I'm not basing that statement off an assumption. I'm basing it off of evaluation and observation of the fish. There is a reason this stuff kills the worms, snails, and crustaceans in a tank. Ultimately, any medication is a poison.

Now that is true, and I don't deny that uninfected fish sometimes seem a bit subdued. Or that the necessary dose is about half the fish LC50 I saw in one research paper. This worried me enough that my first treatment attempt was half what Charles recommended. It didn't work.

Though I haven't seen any snail deaths, or recall seeing anyone else report this. Did this happen for you? If not, are you possibly confusing Levamisole with Flubendazole, which is a guaranteed snail killer?

Originally Posted by msawdey

This worries me as my research into the topic showed that this is happening more and more among keepers. levamisole appears to be the only viable option of treatment

It worries me too. A lot. Callamanus is only becoming such an issue now because it's developed resistance to most common anthelmintics. If it develops improved resistance to Levamisole too, we're in trouble.

[msawdey]

Originally Posted by DarkCobra

Now that is true, and I don't deny that uninfected fish sometimes seem a bit subdued. Or that the necessary dose is about half the fish LC50 I saw in one research paper. This worried me enough that my first treatment attempt was half what Charles recommended. It didn't work.

Though I haven't seen any snail deaths, or recall seeing anyone else report this. Did this happen for you? If not, are you possibly confusing Levamisole with Flubendazole, which is a guaranteed snail killer?



It worries me too. A lot. Callamanus is only becoming such an issue now because it's developed resistance to most common anthelmintics. If it develops improved resistance to Levamisole too, we're in trouble.

ya... i lost all of my snails... This is all if could have been.

The fact that lev is hard to obtain is what is worrysome

[msawdey]

I changed the water last night. Luckily i only had one fish die throughout the process, but all my snails are gone (except for pond snails... .god i hate those buggers)

I will redose in 2 weeks as per Charles' instructions. But for the most part, it looks as if it WORKED

[lookimawave]

Ok, so good to know to remove my nerites before treating. I recently introduced a fish into my tank with Camallanus. But I'm wondering if I need to treat. I removed the fish within 36hrs of introducing it. I have very few snails in my actual tank, 2 nerites and maybe a few baby pond snails (though I do have pond snails growing in my filter arg!). As I understand, inverts are necessary for infection. So since I only have a few snails (and nerites don't seem to eat anything but my driftwood and algae) and since the infected fish was only in my tank for 36 hrs, would you guys say treatment is necessary? I'm more worried about the 100% water changes than the actual chemical. I'm currently treating for ick and my rummynose tetras are looking a bit raggedy.

[marko d]

What is the reasoning for a 100% water change? Is there eggs or something in the water column? Seems like more stress for already stressed fish.

If it's for removal of the chemical, wouldn't a large water change and carbon be a better option?

[lookimawave]

Originally Posted by marko d

What is the reasoning for a 100% water change? Is there eggs or something in the water column? Seems like more stress for already stressed fish.

If it's for removal of the chemical, wouldn't a large water change and carbon be a better option?

From what I understand the Levamisole only kills the adult worm, not the free swimming larval stage so the 100% water changes are to remove those, but ya, 100% sounds really scary! I recently did a 50% when changing my substrate and my rummynose tetras went pale and wouldn't talk to me afterwards.

[msawdey]

The large water change i assume is to remove EVERYTHING else from the tank so that its just water and Lev. Lev will kill most eggs from the research i have done depending on the stage of development, but the whole point of treatment is to do it twice. I am moving on to my second treatment tonight. Hopefully these littler buggers are completely gone after this.