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Old 01-29-2013, 02:40 PM   #16
kwheeler91
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Here is another idea. Use a diy style pvc overflow with the intake set low, but use a check valve higher up the stand pipe at the water level to which it would be safe to drain, thus breaking the siphon if the water falls below said check valve. Yes/no?
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:14 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by kwheeler91 View Post

water movement(flow) isnt the same as a current, which is what I want to achieve. Kind of like speed and velocity, you cant have the latter without direction. You may be right though and it might work just fine but I think it would work better, aka more what I have in mind, if all the holes werent near the surface. I also do not want unsightly overflow boxes in my tank, although I may build a background for a river bank feel when the time comes, which could hide equipment.
Flow has direction FYI....


On the powerhead issue I don't think a Vortech I suggested adds much heat since the motor is outside. You would get the same heat from the water turbulence either way only thing you would add is some from friction which would be minimal.
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:02 PM   #18
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All i meant was that flow in a tank generally just means water movement, which bounces off of tank walls and goes all over the place instead of in one direction.

im not familiar with the vortech but if its an external pump that sounds like a good option. Thanks for the suggestion. I dont really want to run more than one pump if i can help it but that might turn out to be the best option.
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:05 PM   #19
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Why not have the return on the bottom and the drain up high,, ull still get a current effect and on return lines u can just install a one way valve
im still voting this way.. you'll have a lot of one directional current and will be safe

and u cna still setup the sump to have fresh water brought in, at any rate you like

i understand streams have decent water movement, but have u ever gauged what that speed is? its actually not that fast, the problem with streams and what makes them seem so fast is the VOLUME of water.. that's what gievs it that pulling feeling

also not, most fish that inhabit these streams have huge rocks or roots to hide behind to allow their bodies to rest, your flow is going to get bounced around a little, no matter how you go about it
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:09 PM   #20
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I guess i would just have to experiment with intake heights and see if the higher mount is acceptable.

I know not all the species like super fast current, but i intend on designing the tank to accomodate for a few different type of habitat. There will be a riffles section and also pool areas that will have shelter the water will have to flow over and around, i just want to make sure the current hasnt died out by the time it surpasses all obstacles.

I may be worrying to much, but i really do want mupltiple drain heights.

Anyone know if the one way valve on the intake would work?
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:05 PM   #21
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It will not.. for it to drain, the valve will have to be open, so in the event of power loss, it will continue to drain until the siphon is broken
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:19 PM   #22
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BeanAnimal is the best setup.
I've been researching sumps lately too, and this feels like the best design so far.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:44 AM   #23
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It will not.. for it to drain, the valve will have to be open, so in the event of power loss, it will continue to drain until the siphon is broken
maybe my terminology is wrong, but a check valve stuck in the intake or just a hole just below the surface to suck in air once the water level drops below it. would the air not break the siphon?
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:56 AM   #24
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maybe my terminology is wrong, but a check valve stuck in the intake or just a hole just below the surface to suck in air once the water level drops below it. would the air not break the siphon?
What happens when the power turns back on? How will the system prime itself?
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:46 AM   #25
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A monsterfishkeeper member said that I could use a bulk head and simply raise the T leading to the sump at the desired water level and it wouldnt drain any farther than the T. Doesnt sound right to ne but would that work?
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:08 AM   #26
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It is a closed loop not conected to the sump at all. Drains on one end going straight to a pump and discharge on the other velosity set by the pump and valve.


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Old 01-30-2013, 07:33 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by HD Blazingwolf View Post
What happens when the power turns back on? How will the system prime itself?

I don't have any personal experience with sumps, but I'm planning on using one with my next setup, and have been reading around a bit.

One thing I've seen is that people hook up the venturi from a powerhead to the top of the siphon, or use some sort of low flow-rate peristaltic pump (I've heard 'aqualifter' mentioned fairly often, but the reviews I've read of it aren't too hot...).

This serves two purposes, to eliminate bubble/gas accumulation in the siphon, and also to help prime the siphon after a power failure.
-power fails, pumps shut off, water drains below hole for siphon break, siphon breaks, excess water drains into sump, everything stops, no flooding, etc.
-power comes back on. the pumps start again, but have little/no water available due to overflows/etc, aqualifter/venturi starts pumping the air out of the broken siphon and priming it, once siphon is primed, waterflow returns to normal and the system can effectively self restart.

I'm not sure if there will be much of a problem with the pump potentially running dry until the siphon is primed again, but it seems this plan is fairly common, so I imagine someone has some experience with it.
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:22 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by lochaber View Post
I don't have any personal experience with sumps, but I'm planning on using one with my next setup, and have been reading around a bit.

One thing I've seen is that people hook up the venturi from a powerhead to the top of the siphon, or use some sort of low flow-rate peristaltic pump (I've heard 'aqualifter' mentioned fairly often, but the reviews I've read of it aren't too hot...).

This serves two purposes, to eliminate bubble/gas accumulation in the siphon, and also to help prime the siphon after a power failure.
-power fails, pumps shut off, water drains below hole for siphon break, siphon breaks, excess water drains into sump, everything stops, no flooding, etc.
-power comes back on. the pumps start again, but have little/no water available due to overflows/etc, aqualifter/venturi starts pumping the air out of the broken siphon and priming it, once siphon is primed, waterflow returns to normal and the system can effectively self restart.

I'm not sure if there will be much of a problem with the pump potentially running dry until the siphon is primed again, but it seems this plan is fairly common, so I imagine someone has some experience with it.
this defeats the purpose of the siphon break he is trying to install

but yes u still have to have a priming method,, i actually have two aqualifters.. one on a 29 gallon, one on a 75 gallon. they are fine as long as u use the prefilter AND check weekly for snaills, or debris cloging input/ output holes. if my overflow has bubbles accumulating, its because a baby snail crawled down the airtube and got stuck at the barb for the prefilter. a toothpick fixes this
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:41 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwheeler91 View Post
A monsterfishkeeper member said that I could use a bulk head and simply raise the T leading to the sump at the desired water level and it wouldnt drain any farther than the T. Doesnt sound right to ne but would that work?
possibly,
check this picture and see if i am understanding what ur trying to do
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:12 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by HD Blazingwolf View Post
this defeats the purpose of the siphon break he is trying to install

but yes u still have to have a priming method,, i actually have two aqualifters.. one on a 29 gallon, one on a 75 gallon. they are fine as long as u use the prefilter AND check weekly for snaills, or debris cloging input/ output holes. if my overflow has bubbles accumulating, its because a baby snail crawled down the airtube and got stuck at the barb for the prefilter. a toothpick fixes this
Ha! - thanx, that wasn't something I had considered, so I'll keep that in mind if I ever do use them.



Quote:
Originally Posted by HD Blazingwolf View Post
possibly,
check this picture and see if i am understanding what ur trying to do
-You might want to have a similar raised portion for the return, to prevent water back flowing and draining the tank (or use a check valve, or something similar)
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