Paintball CO2
Planted Tank Forums
Your Tanks Image Hosting *Tank Tracker * Plant Profiles Fish Profiles Planted Tank Guide Photo Gallery Articles

Go Back   The Planted Tank Forum > Specific Aspects of a Planted Tank > Equipment


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-29-2013, 07:26 AM   #1
Tvadna
Planted Member
 
Tvadna's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 154
Default

Paintball CO2


So I decided to try my luck with a paintball CO2 tank. It was relatively cheap: under $60 ($35 for the tank, $10 paintball on/off valve, $10 needle valve, $3 for the barbed adapter). I set it all up tonight and was a bit tough to get calibrated correctly but I finally got it going with a good stream of CO2. A few hours after set-up I heard a loud hissing and found the tank leaking at the on/off valve attached to the tank. I reattached it and it did the same thing 15 minutes later.

I'm wondering if anyone has tried this before or is familiar with paintball tanks. How tight does the connection to the tank have to be? Is there supposed to be a gasket that I'm missing? Or is this set-up incorrect and doomed to fail from the start?

Tvadna is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-29-2013, 09:57 AM   #2
aznartist34
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 534
Default

There's supposed to be an o-ring between the on/off valve and the paintball tank
aznartist34 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-29-2013, 11:42 AM   #3
FlyingHellFish
Wannabe Guru
 
FlyingHellFish's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,663
Default

What needle valve is that? It looks really good for 10 dollars.
FlyingHellFish is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-29-2013, 12:26 PM   #4
h4n
Hobbuiness Man
 
PTrader: (672/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Charlton, Mass
Posts: 4,751
Default Re: Paintball CO2

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingHellFish View Post
What needle valve is that? It looks really good for 10 dollars.
+1!!

-Sent from my Samsung Note, a "Phablet"
h4n is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-29-2013, 01:41 PM   #5
jester56
Planted Member
 
jester56's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Covington, LA
Posts: 150
Default

Depends on where its leaking. If its leaking from the weep hole (if it has one - will be close to the bottom of the adapter) or the bottom of the adapter itself, try changing the o-ring on the tank valve. If its leaking from the shaft of the on-off knob, there should be one or two o-rings on that shaft. Lubricant may help on the adapter shaft o-rings. They can be difficult to remove, depending on the manufacturer.

FWIW, 850 psi direct from the valve is a lot of pressure to run without a regulator. I'd anticipate problems with keeping steady pressure from the needle valve. I have a similar rig on a five gal tank. But I use a paintball gun regulator and adapter/on-off. Even with that, I have to monitor it daily to make sure it doesn't go too far in either direction...
__________________
Nikon Pimp #084
"The legal quarter of tight lipped men, push for order, then repeat again." KTP

Last edited by jester56; 01-29-2013 at 01:49 PM.. Reason: Added info...
jester56 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-29-2013, 02:57 PM   #6
drewsuf82
Wannabe Guru
 
drewsuf82's Avatar
 
PTrader: (46/100%)
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Port Richey, FL
Posts: 1,582
Default

I would try the soapy water test to determine where the leak is. A others have stated do you have o rings installed ?
drewsuf82 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-29-2013, 03:42 PM   #7
Tvadna
Planted Member
 
Tvadna's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 154
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jester56 View Post
Depends on where its leaking. If its leaking from the weep hole (if it has one - will be close to the bottom of the adapter) or the bottom of the adapter itself, try changing the o-ring on the tank valve. If its leaking from the shaft of the on-off knob, there should be one or two o-rings on that shaft. Lubricant may help on the adapter shaft o-rings. They can be difficult to remove, depending on the manufacturer.

FWIW, 850 psi direct from the valve is a lot of pressure to run without a regulator. I'd anticipate problems with keeping steady pressure from the needle valve. I have a similar rig on a five gal tank. But I use a paintball gun regulator and adapter/on-off. Even with that, I have to monitor it daily to make sure it doesn't go too far in either direction...
There was a small clear o-ring just under the first lip of the threads on the paintball tank. It was definitely leaking between the black on/off valve and the brass threads on the tank. No soapy water trick needed (it sounded like an air compressor hose).
The funny thing is, the black on/off valve never really shut anything off. Once it is screwed down, it's on.
850 psi vs 1 needle valve? No wonder it was so tricky to get calibrated to 1 bubble/5seconds. Thats a lot of work for one valve even if its not the fail point so far. So my question is, where'd you get the paintball co2 regulator and how much are they? Also, did you hand tighten it onto the tank or use a wrench to secure it?
Thanks for the enlightenment
Tvadna is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-29-2013, 03:52 PM   #8
Tvadna
Planted Member
 
Tvadna's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 154
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingHellFish View Post
What needle valve is that? It looks really good for 10 dollars.
Used swaglok 1/8"x1/8" needle valve... I think I got lucky on the price. If I wouldn't have stumbled across that valve I wouldn't have gone down this road and could have avoided the situation all together. hah

I should probably mention this now cause people are already liking the set-up.
DO NOT COPY THIS SET-UP. IT DOESN'T WORK CORRECTLY YET.

I'll update this when I get it done correctly and it will work. I'm no quiter
Tvadna is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-29-2013, 06:37 PM   #9
FlyingHellFish
Wannabe Guru
 
FlyingHellFish's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,663
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tvadna View Post
Also, did you hand tighten it onto the tank or use a wrench to secure it?
Thanks for the enlightenment
I wasted a full bottle when I hand tighten it, of course the leak was a ninja and the bottle went empty over night. Mine is running smoothly ever since I used two wrench for the connections.

Here my paintball set up. The JT IVT paintball tank is a new product they came out with that has a level indicator. You can see how much liquid Co2 you have left. They also have the burst disc on the tank rather than the threads. You ASA On/Off guys are brave, I jump at the very sound of my solenoid coming on. DINK!

FlyingHellFish is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-29-2013, 08:14 PM   #10
jester56
Planted Member
 
jester56's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Covington, LA
Posts: 150
Default

Nice setup you've got there, FHF! Remember that to get a halfway accurate measurement on that 24oz you need to pick it up and swirl it around to get the agitator to stir up the liquid so yo can see it on the read panel.

TVadna, got to replace that o-ring or it will continue to leak (Call me Captain Obvious!). I'd bet that the reason it seems like the tank valve is not cutting off the CO2 is that the needle valve lets such a small amount of gas through that it takes a minuite or two for it to bleed out. You might want to consider one of the little Atomic (i think) PB reg setups. I'll post a photo of my rig when I get home today so you can see it.
__________________
Nikon Pimp #084
"The legal quarter of tight lipped men, push for order, then repeat again." KTP
jester56 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-30-2013, 02:18 PM   #11
jester56
Planted Member
 
jester56's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Covington, LA
Posts: 150
Default

Here's some shots of my bare bones, use-at-your-own-risk, el cheapo CO2 rig. It consists of a 20 oz paintball CO2 tank with a brass valve/plastic seat/1.8 psi pressure relief disc; A Custom Products ASA (Air Systems Adapter) with venting on off (vents back pressure from the line - can be bad, as it vents some of the CO2 back down the line); Braided stainless lines with quick disconnects; MacDev Products vertical regulator (used $25-40 evilbay) to control flow. There is a gauge, but it is pretty much useless here, as it has a 5K value. There is a second plain ASA with a macro fitting that runs to the tank. I use an airstone for the moment, until I get a reactor for this tank.





__________________
Nikon Pimp #084
"The legal quarter of tight lipped men, push for order, then repeat again." KTP
jester56 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-31-2013, 07:48 AM   #12
Tvadna
Planted Member
 
Tvadna's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 154
Default

MISTAKES HAVE BEEN MADE!

So I finally realized that my on/off valve is reversed from every other valve I'm familiar with. Screwed all the way down is all the way on, and screwed all the way up is off. Cause it is a needle valve.... idiot.

I gave it another go today, barely screwing the valve knob down to crack out just a bit of CO2 for the needle valve to regulate even further. This worked well. I got it calibrated down to a bubble every 2 or 3 seconds and there wasn't enough back pressure to blow the o-ring seal from the tank.

Fast forward a few hours after I got done with a job I got called out on and I returned to find a dead tank. Managed to kill off my entire colony of cherry shrimp and endlers. Now I've got a 10 gallon tank of seafood soup. Who's hungry? Since the CO2 was no longer running, I'm guessing that it released more then just a bubble a second and dumped in my tank and the bottom dropped out of the pH.

Thankfully it was only my 10 gallon and not a bigger tank full of german ram fry. The only thing worse could have been the valve blowing apart and shattering all 3 tanks sitting there. At least I have the plants!

I already said I'm not a quitter.... But I am smarter then I am stubborn. Also smart enough to realize that I won't be running pressurized CO2 without a regulator now.... Lesson learned (the hard way)
Tvadna is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-31-2013, 08:44 AM   #13
Darkblade48
Moderator
 
Darkblade48's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 8,724
Default

Sorry to hear about your losses.

Just as a side note, pH swings caused by CO2 usually are not harmful to livestock; rather, what killed them was the increase in CO2 that inhibits respiration.
__________________
Anthony

A Primer to Pressurized CO2 and A Primer to Planted Tanks
Eheim Pimp #362 - Eheim 2213 x2, Eheim 2028, Eheim 2217, Eheim surface skimmer and Eheim autofeeder.
Victor Pimp #33 - HPT272-125-350-4M
Darkblade48 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-31-2013, 12:46 PM   #14
jester56
Planted Member
 
jester56's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Covington, LA
Posts: 150
Default

Wow, Dude! Sorry to hear it. I don't keep livestock in this tank. I worry about the end of fill release. I had it happen once and it just releases co2 at a high rate and bubbles off the last bit from the cylinder. But as you experienced, it can be bad. I'm still trying to find a PB reg that will hold that back. And Anthony's "Primer" is an excellent reference if you're looking to learn more stuff!
__________________
Nikon Pimp #084
"The legal quarter of tight lipped men, push for order, then repeat again." KTP
jester56 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-31-2013, 01:39 PM   #15
hbosman
Wannabe Guru
 
hbosman's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Leesburg Virginia
Posts: 1,594
Default

Try one of these! When you have room for a full size cylinder, just remove the paintball adapter.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/h_bosman/4379697140/
hbosman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Planted Tank LLC 2012