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Old 01-17-2013, 04:27 PM   #31
Mxx
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Here is the list which Plantfinder gives for plants that can be grown emersed -

Aciotis acuminifolia
Synonyms : Acisanthera sp. (erroneous)
Summary : Moderate
Acmella repens
Synonyms : Acmella oppositifolia, Spilanthes americana
Summary : Moderate
Alternanthera aquatica
Summary : Easy
Alternanthera reineckii 'lilacina'
Summary : Moderate
Alternanthera reineckii 'rosaefolia'
Summary : Moderate
Ammannia gracilis
Summary : Moderate
Ammannia latifolia
Summary : Difficult
Anubias barteri var. barteri
Summary : Very Easy
Anubias barteri var. nana
Summary : Very Easy
Anubias barteri var. nana 'Marble'
Summary : Very Easy
Anubias barteri var. nana 'Petite'
Summary : Very Easy
Anubias gracilis
Summary : Easy
Bacopa australis
Summary : Very Easy
Bacopa caroliniana
Summary : Easy
Bacopa innominata
Synonyms : Bacopa cyclophylla, Bacopa stragula
Summary : Easy
Bacopa lanigera
Summary : Moderate
Bacopa madagascariensis
Summary : Moderate
Bacopa monnieri
Summary : Easy
Bacopa salzmannii
Synonyms : Bacopa sp. 'Araguaia'
Summary : Moderate
Bacopa sp. 'Colorata'
Summary : Moderate
Bacopa sp. 'Japan'
Summary : Moderate
Bolbitis heudelotii
Summary : Easy
Callitriche terrestris
Synonyms : Elatine americana (erroneous)
Summary : Moderate
Cardamine lyrata
Summary : Easy
Ceratopteris pteridoides
Summary : Easy
Clinopodium cf. brownei
Synonyms : Lindernia anagallis (erroneous)
Summary : Moderate
Cryptocoryne beckettii 'petchii'
Summary : Easy
Cryptocoryne cordata var. cordata 'blassii'
Summary : Easy
Cryptocoryne crispatula var. balansae
Summary : Easy
Cryptocoryne parva
Summary : Easy
Cryptocoryne pontederiifolia
Summary : Easy
Cryptocoryne undulata
Summary : Easy
Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Green Gecko'
Summary : Very Easy
Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Mi Oya'
Summary : Very Easy
Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Red'
Summary : Very Easy
Cryptocoryne x willisii 'lucens'
Summary : Easy
Cuphea anagalloidea
Synonyms : Bacopa sp. 'Red' (erroneous), Rotala sp. 'Araguaia' (erroneous)
Summary : Difficult
Cyperus helferi
Summary : Moderate
Didiplis diandra
Summary : Moderate
Diodia virginiana
Summary : Moderate
Diodia cf. kuntzei
Synonyms : Hygrophila sp. 'Pantanal' (erroneous), Rubiaceae sp. 'Pantanal'
Summary : Moderate
Echinodorus berteroi
Summary : Easy
Echinodorus cordifolius
Summary : Easy
Echinodorus major
Synonyms : Echinodorus martii (erroneous)
Summary : Easy
Echinodorus parviflorus 'Tropica'
Summary : Easy
Echinodorus uruguayensis
Summary : Easy
Echinodorus 'Kleiner Bar'
Summary : Easy
Echinodorus 'Ozelot'
Summary : Easy
Echinodorus 'Rubin'
Summary : Easy
Echinodorus x barthii
Summary : Easy
Elatine triandra
Summary : Moderate
Eleocharis acicularis
Summary : Easy
Eriocaulon cinereum
Summary : Moderate
Eriocaulon sp. 'Goias'
Summary : Difficult
Eriocaulon sp. 'Mato Grosso'
Summary : Very Difficult
Glossostigma elatinoides
Summary : Moderate
Gymnocoronis spilanthoides
Summary : Easy
Helanthium bolivianum 'Angustifolius'
Synonyms : Echinodorus angustifolius
Summary : Easy
Helanthium tenellum
Synonyms : Echinodorus tenellus
Summary : Easy
Hemianthus callitrichoides
Summary : Moderate
Hemianthus glomeratus
Synonyms : Hemianthus micranthemoides (erroneous), Micranthemum glomeratum
Summary : Easy
Heteranthera zosterifolia
Summary : Easy
Hottonia palustris
Summary : Moderate
Hydrocotyle leucocephala
Summary : Very Easy
Hydrocotyle sibthorpioides
Summary : Moderate
Hydrocotyle verticillata
Summary : Moderate
Hygrophila balsamica
Summary : Easy
Hygrophila corymbosa 'angustifolia'
Summary : Easy
Hygrophila corymbosa 'Siamensis'
Summary : Easy
Hygrophila corymbosa 'Stricta'
Summary : Easy
Hygrophila difformis
Summary : Easy
Hygrophila lancea
Synonyms : Hygrophila sp. 'Sarawak'
Summary : Moderate
Hygrophila odora
Synonyms : Hygrophila sp. 'Guinea'
Summary : Moderate
Hygrophila polysperma
Summary : Very Easy
Hygrophila polysperma 'Ceylon'
Summary : Very Easy
Hygrophila polysperma 'Sunset'
Summary : Easy
Hygrophila sp. 'Araguaia'
Summary : Moderate
Hygrophila sp. 'Bold'
Summary : Moderate
Hygrophila sp. 'Red'
Summary : Moderate
Hygrophila sp. 'Tiger'
Summary : Very Easy
Hyptis lorentziana
Synonyms : Hemigraphis traian (erroneous)
Summary : Moderate
Juncus repens
Summary : Easy
Lilaeopsis brasiliensis
Summary : Moderate
Limnobium laevigatum
Summary : Easy
Limnophila aromatica
Summary : Moderate
Limnophila repens
Synonyms : Limnophila sp. 'Mini'
Summary : Moderate
Limnophila sessiliflora
Summary : Easy
Limnophila sp. 'Broad'
Summary : Moderate
Limnophila sp. 'Gigantea'
Summary : Moderate
Limnophila sp. 'Guinea Broad-Leaf'
Summary : Moderate
Limnophila sp. 'Sulawesi'
Summary : Moderate
Lindernia dubia
Summary : Moderate
Lindernia grandiflora
Summary : Easy
Lindernia rotundifolia 'Variegated'
Summary : Moderate
Lindernia sp. 'India'
Summary : Moderate
Lobelia cardinalis
Summary : Easy
Lobelia cardinalis 'Small Form'
Summary : Easy
Ludwigia arcuata
Summary : Easy
Ludwigia brevipes
Summary : Easy
Ludwigia glandulosa
Synonyms : "Ludwigia peruensis" (erroneous)
Summary : Moderate
Ludwigia inclinata
Summary : Difficult
Ludwigia inclinata var verticillata 'Araguaia'
Summary : Moderate
Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Cuba'
Summary : Moderate
Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Pantanal'
Summary : Difficult
Ludwigia ovalis
Summary : Moderate
Ludwigia palustris
Summary : Easy
Ludwigia repens
Summary : Easy
Ludwigia repens x L. arcuata
Synonyms : Ludwigia palustris (erroneous)
Summary : Easy
Ludwigia sedoides
Summary : Easy
Ludwigia senegalensis
Synonyms : Ludwigia sp. 'Guinea'
Summary : Difficult
Ludwigia sphaerocarpa
Synonyms : Ludwigia pilosa (erroneous)
Summary : Moderate
Ludwigia sp. 'Rubin'
Summary : Easy
Ludwigia x lacustris
Synonyms : Ludwiga brevipes x palustris
Summary : Easy
Lysimachia nummularia 'Aurea'
Summary : Easy
Marsilea spp.
Summary : Easy
Mayaca fluviatilis
Summary : Moderate
Micranthemum umbrosum
Summary : Moderate
Microsorum pteropus
Summary : Very Easy
Microsorum pteropus 'Philippine'
Summary : Easy
Microsorum pteropus 'Trident'
Summary : Very Easy
Microsorum pteropus 'Tropica'
Summary : Very Easy
Microsorum pteropus 'Windelov'
Summary : Very Easy
Monosolenium tenerum
Synonyms : Pellia endiviifolia (erroneous)
Summary : Easy
Murdannia keisak
Summary : Moderate
Murdannia sp. 'Red'
Summary : Moderate
Myriophyllum aquaticum
Summary : Moderate
Myriophyllum mattogrossense
Summary : Easy
Myriophyllum propinquum
Summary : Easy
Myriophyllum tuberculatum
Summary : Difficult
Nesaea crassicaulis
Summary : Difficult
Nesaea pedicellata
Summary : Difficult
Nesaea triflora
Summary : Moderate
Nesaea sp. 'Red Leaved'
Summary : Very Difficult
Oldenlandia salzmannii
Synonyms : Bacopa sp. 'Pantanal' (erroneous), Hedyotis salzmannii
Summary : Easy
Penthorum sedoides
Summary : Moderate
Persicaria hydropiperoides
Synonyms : Polygonum hydropiperoides
Summary : Moderate
Persicaria praetermissa
Synonyms : Polygonum sp. 'Ruby', Polygonum praetermissum
Summary : Moderate
Persicaria sp. 'acre'
Synonyms : Polygonum sp. 'Acre'
Summary : Moderate
Persicaria sp. 'Kawagoeanum'
Synonyms : Polygonum sp. 'Kawagoeanum'
Summary : Easy
Persicaria sp. 'Porto Velho'
Synonyms : Polygonum sp. 'Porto Velho'
Summary : Moderate
Persicaria sp. 'Sao Paulo'
Synonyms : Polygonum sp. 'Sao Paulo'
Summary : Moderate
Pogostemon erectus
Synonyms : Rotala verticillaris (erroneous)
Summary : Moderate
Pogostemon helferi
Summary : Moderate
Pogostemon stellatus
Synonyms : Eusteralis stellata (erroneous)
Summary : Difficult
Pogostemon stellatus 'Broad Leaf'
Synonyms : Eusteralis stellata (erroneous)
Summary : Moderate
Pogostemon yatabeanus
Synonyms : Eusteralis yatabeana (erroneous)
Summary : Moderate
Proserpinaca palustris
Summary : Moderate
Ranunculus inundatus
Summary : Moderate
Riccardia chamedryfolia
Summary : Easy
Riccia fluitans
Summary : Easy
Riccia sp. 'Dwarf'
Summary : Easy
Ricciocarpus natans
Summary : Easy
Rotala indica
Synonyms : Ammannia sp. 'Bonsai' (erroneous)
Summary : Moderate
Rotala macrandra
Summary : Difficult
Rotala macrandra 'Green Narrow Leaf'
Summary : Moderate
Rotala macrandra 'Green'
Summary : Moderate
Rotala macrandra 'Mini Type 2'
Summary : Moderate
Rotala macrandra 'Narrow Leaf'
Summary : Moderate
Rotala macrandra 'Variegated'
Summary : Difficult
Rotala mexicana 'Araguaia'
Synonyms : Rotala pusilla (erroneous)
Summary : Moderate
Rotala mexicana 'Goias'
Synonyms : Rotala sp. 'Goias'
Summary : Moderate
Rotala ramosior
Summary : Moderate
Rotala rotundifolia
Synonyms : Rotala indica (erroneous)
Summary : Easy
Rotala wallichii
Summary : Moderate
Rotala sp. 'Colorata'
Summary : Easy
Rotala sp. 'Green'
Summary : Easy
Rotala sp. 'Nanjenshan'
Summary : Moderate
Rotala sp. 'Sunset'
Synonyms : Ammannia sp. 'Sulawesi' (erroneous)
Summary : Moderate
Rotala sp. 'Vietnam'
Summary : Moderate
Sagittaria subulata
Summary : Easy
Saururus cernuus
Summary : Moderate
Saururus chinensis
Summary : Moderate
Sphaerocaryum malaccense
Synonyms : Arthraxon sp. 'Malaysia' (erroneous)
Summary : Moderate
Staurogyne stolonifera
Synonyms : Hygrophila sp. 'Rio Araguaia' (erroneous), Staurogyne sp. 'Rio Araguaia'
Summary : Moderate
Staurogyne sp. 'Bihar'
Synonyms : Hygrophila sp. 'Bihar' (erroneous)
Summary : Moderate
Staurogyne sp. 'Low Grow'
Synonyms : Hygrophila sp. 'Low Grow' (erroneous)
Summary : Moderate
Staurogyne sp. 'Porto Velho'
Synonyms : Hygrophila sp. 'Porto Velho' (erroneous), Hygrophila sp. 'Roraima' (erroneous)
Summary : Moderate
Syngonanthus sp. 'Belem'
Synonyms : Tonina sp. 'Belem' (erroneous)
Summary : Difficult
Syngonanthus sp. 'Manaus'
Synonyms : Tonina sp. 'Manaus' (erroneous)
Summary : Difficult
Taxiphyllum alternans
Summary : Easy
Taxiphyllum barbieri
Synonyms : Vesicularia dubyana (erroneous)
Summary : Very Easy
Tonina fluviatilis
Summary : Difficult
Utricularia gibba
Summary : Very Easy
Utricularia graminifolia
Summary : Moderate
Vesicularia ferriei
Summary : Easy
Vesicularia montagnei
Summary : Easy
Poaceae sp. 'Purple Bamboo'
Summary : Moderate
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Old 01-17-2013, 05:25 PM   #32
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I concur with the "very easy" and "easy" designations on the crypts and anubias.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:17 PM   #33
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Based on that list, I think it is safe to say that there are several plants that could be dry started
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:38 PM   #34
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Plants that can be grown emerged don’t necessarily transition easily to their submersed forms. Many would be easier to grow submersed from the start.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:28 PM   #35
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Neat list MXX. Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceF View Post
Plants that can be grown emerged donít necessarily transition easily to their submersed forms. Many would be easier to grow submersed from the start.
I was wondering the same thing. Oh well, I guess I should still be able to make a smaller list of plants that work with DSM...but as Hoppy mentioned, a lot of them don't work without CO2. I should mention that Excel was enough for my Hairgrass foreground and should most likely be enough carbon for glosso, HC, etc.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:35 PM   #36
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Can you be more specific or offer support for this assertion? In my experience, I have had an easier time transitioning from emerged to submerged growth rather than visa versa. This has been true in my experience for ferns, anubias, crypts, and lilaeopsis. I have also had no problem with bacopas.

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Plants that can be grown emerged donít necessarily transition easily to their submersed forms. Many would be easier to grow submersed from the start.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:57 PM   #37
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Quote:
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in all honesty, this isnt convincing me that this is the "best" anything.

In reality, i understand that a lot of that had to do with plant choices... but it really went from eye catching to drab.
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:11 AM   #38
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I found the list from PlantFinder confusing, so I converted it to a table sorted by very easy to very difficult. Here it is:




This is just the "very easy" and "easy" plants, assuming those are most likely to work without CO2. There are 87 different plants listed! I don't see much reason to try to dry start most of these, but it should be possible to do so.

Last edited by Hoppy; 01-18-2013 at 02:33 AM.. Reason: add graphic
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:17 AM   #39
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in all honesty, this isnt convincing me that this is the "best" anything.

In reality, i understand that a lot of that had to do with plant choices... but it really went from eye catching to drab.
I believe the first pic is with co2 and higher lighting but then converted to low tech...don't quote me on that though, but if you think about it, high tech is obviously more striking than low tech.
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3 GBR, 2 Bolivian Rams, 1 Juvenile Super Red BN Plecos, 9 Oto Catfish, 9 Bloodfin Tetras
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Rotala Indica, Cardamine, Crypt Spiralis, Pygmy Chain Swords, Dwarf Sag, Lutea Crypt, Wendtti Bronze and Red, and Floating Frogbit
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:55 AM   #40
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Educational thread!

Also thanks for explaining what mineralizing soil means

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http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=152027 is a good article on how to "mineralize" soil. Mineralizing means converting organic nitrogen compounds to inorganic nitrogen - nitrates. The article explains how to let bacteria do it for you, or you can bake the soil in an oven to accomplish the same thing faster, but with a good possibility of stinking up the whole house.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:31 AM   #41
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Since I am about ready to re-set up my tank again, with ADA Aquasoil as the substrate, and I want to try dry starting the carpet plants, I have been doing more research. My once favorite plant for this was Marsilea minuta, but then I read that the emersed version is often much different from the submersed version, making it a poor dry start candidate. Other plants I thought might work, had similar problems. In fact I ended up thinking that only HC, glosso, dwarf hairgrass, and possibly a couple more, would be expected to do well with a dry start. I now think I will use Sagitaria subulata, and a submersed start. Of course, tomorrow is another day!
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:06 AM   #42
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Since I am about ready to re-set up my tank again, with ADA Aquasoil as the substrate, and I want to try dry starting the carpet plants, I have been doing more research. My once favorite plant for this was Marsilea minuta, but then I read that the emersed version is often much different from the submersed version, making it a poor dry start candidate. Other plants I thought might work, had similar problems. In fact I ended up thinking that only HC, glosso, dwarf hairgrass, and possibly a couple more, would be expected to do well with a dry start. I now think I will use Sagitaria subulata, and a submersed start. Of course, tomorrow is another day!
Will this be low tech or high tech?
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3 GBR, 2 Bolivian Rams, 1 Juvenile Super Red BN Plecos, 9 Oto Catfish, 9 Bloodfin Tetras
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Rotala Indica, Cardamine, Crypt Spiralis, Pygmy Chain Swords, Dwarf Sag, Lutea Crypt, Wendtti Bronze and Red, and Floating Frogbit
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:38 PM   #43
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Quote:
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Will this be low tech or high tech?
This will be low light, with Excel, and possibly with DIY CO2 if I run into too sluggish plant growth. My light is a DIY LED light that I adjust the LED driver to get whatever PAR I want, within a narrow band - about 15-30 micromols of PAR. It is set for 20 right now. The substrate will be ADA Aquasoil, mostly Africana, with some Amazonia mixed in. And, the filter will be a Hamburger Mattenfilter.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:42 PM   #44
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Default The *BEST* (Tom Barr's) low-tech start-up tank method. Easy to read beginner's guide!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoppy View Post
This will be low light, with Excel, and possibly with DIY CO2 if I run into too sluggish plant growth. My light is a DIY LED light that I adjust the LED driver to get whatever PAR I want, within a narrow band - about 15-30 micromols of PAR. It is set for 20 right now. The substrate will be ADA Aquasoil, mostly Africana, with some Amazonia mixed in. And, the filter will be a Hamburger Mattenfilter.
Gotchya, I know I want to go about mineralizing the soil just like the link you posted, but I currently getting some ideas about going about it. Dolomite and potash seem to be hard things to find around me, not sure what else to substitute it with.
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3 GBR, 2 Bolivian Rams, 1 Juvenile Super Red BN Plecos, 9 Oto Catfish, 9 Bloodfin Tetras
Plants
Rotala Indica, Cardamine, Crypt Spiralis, Pygmy Chain Swords, Dwarf Sag, Lutea Crypt, Wendtti Bronze and Red, and Floating Frogbit
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Old 02-01-2013, 04:42 PM   #45
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According to the article on the first page here, is the author saying that if you intend to use Seachem Flourish, that you should also be using Calcium and Magnesium ferts as well? Are dry ferts OK to use in conjunction with the liquid fert that is Flourish?
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