Good idea for a diy stand?
Planted Tank Forums
Your Tanks Image Hosting *Tank Tracker * Plant Profiles Fish Profiles Planted Tank Guide Photo Gallery Articles

Go Back   The Planted Tank Forum > Specific Aspects of a Planted Tank > DIY


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-26-2013, 05:41 PM   #1
evilhorde
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Duncan, BC, Canada
Posts: 171
Default

Good idea for a diy stand?


I need to build a stand for a 45 gallon long tank I have.
I found plans for a shelf unit that I think may work for me and I wonder what you all might think about it.

http://ana-white.com/2012/05/plans/rustic-x-console
My thoughts on it:
It is my understanding that the tank is supported almost entirely on the four corners so the fact the the horizontal boards aren't sitting on top of the 2x4's shouldnt matter, right?
Would I require an 'X' across the back too?
Do you think that the top planks would tend to warp enough to give me a hassle? (The boards in a pic on the website seem to look a little bowed)
Would putting a piece of 3/4" plywood under them stop that? mdf board?
evilhorde is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-26-2013, 05:54 PM   #2
thelub
Newbie
 
thelub's Avatar
 
PTrader: (13/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: SE Washington
Posts: 1,962
Default

Thats a good design to work off of. For a 45 long you shouldn't need extra x-braces in the back. Your biggest concern will be to make absolutely sure the top is flat and level so you don't break any of the seams in your tank. It wouldn't hurt to put a nice piece of plywood on top to provide a flat level surface for the tank to sit on.
thelub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2013, 06:32 PM   #3
MSG
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
MSG's Avatar
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: East Coast
Posts: 511
Default

Looks like it will be sufficient, but if you're concerned, you can add corner reinforcement brackets. Or go overboard & use 4x4 fence posts on the 4 corners.

Not sure if you want to leave shelves below completely open, because it wouldn't give you any place to hide the equipment/wires.
MSG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2013, 07:05 PM   #4
Diana
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Contra Costa CA
Posts: 7,264
Default

I would use the middle shelf on only half the unit, and leave the other bay larger, more open for canister filter, CO2 or other large things.

2 x 4 is plenty strong enough. No need to go to 4 x 4 in the corners.

X across the back, or even a sheet of plywood as a shear panel would be a very good idea.

I also would not use the 2 x 6 top, 3/4" plywood would be very strong, or add perhaps 1/2" or thinner plywood on top of the 2 x 6 for a more uniform surface. Even a sheet of Styrofoam might be enough if the top was well made, very uniform.

Most of my stands are 2 x 4 on edge, boxes that exactly fit the bottom rim of the tank. Most of my tanks are glass tanks designed to sit on their rim.
Sit those boxes on concrete blocks. Add 1/2" Styrofoam to even out any irregularities in the wood.
My acrylic tanks are fully supported. I used manufactured stands and sheets of Styrofoam for them.
Diana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 12:24 AM   #5
GraphicGr8s
Supreme ruler & master
 
GraphicGr8s's Avatar
 
PTrader: (10/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: West coast of the east coast of the USA.
Posts: 2,551
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thelub View Post
Thats a good design to work off of. For a 45 long you shouldn't need extra x-braces in the back. Your biggest concern will be to make absolutely sure the top is flat and level so you don't break any of the seams in your tank. It wouldn't hurt to put a nice piece of plywood on top to provide a flat level surface for the tank to sit on.
If it's a glass tank with a rim the top won't matter a hill of beans. The tank only sits on the edges. Putting a nice piece of plywood will only appease your own mind. The tank won't be resting on any part except the edges. You don't even need a top at all. Just 2 x 3 framework will take care of it just fine. If he doesn't put a skin on it I would wholeheartedly recommend X bracing to help prevent racking. 2 x 4 legs are more than adequate. Don't use pressure treated on any part of it.
__________________
Quote me as saying I was misquoted.
Once you get rid of integrity the rest is a piece of cake.
Life is simple…People complicate it
Here's to our wives and sweethearts - may they never meet.
If you agreed with me we'd both be right.
GraphicGr8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 03:30 PM   #6
evilhorde
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Duncan, BC, Canada
Posts: 171
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GraphicGr8s View Post
If it's a glass tank with a rim the top won't matter a hill of beans. The tank only sits on the edges. Putting a nice piece of plywood will only appease your own mind. The tank won't be resting on any part except the edges.
I like the look of the 2x6 top but I am a tad concerned about the boards curling up a bit and ruining my perfectly flat top.
What if I put a piece of 1/2 or 3/4 plywood under the 2x6's and glued/screwed them together? That should keep the 2x6's flat shouldn't it?
Or at least keep them from warping any more than they are when I buy them. I can run a sander over the top before staining to achieve a 'flat now' suface but I wonder if it will warp up the first day it doesn't have a full tank on top of it.
This concern about warping is probably just paranoia on my part but I like to cover all the bases before I cut once.
evilhorde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 04:24 PM   #7
Sluggo
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Portland, Me.
Posts: 235
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by evilhorde View Post
I like the look of the 2x6 top but I am a tad concerned about the boards curling up a bit and ruining my perfectly flat top.
What if I put a piece of 1/2 or 3/4 plywood under the 2x6's and glued/screwed them together? That should keep the 2x6's flat shouldn't it?
Or at least keep them from warping any more than they are when I buy them. I can run a sander over the top before staining to achieve a 'flat now' suface but I wonder if it will warp up the first day it doesn't have a full tank on top of it.
This concern about warping is probably just paranoia on my part but I like to cover all the bases before I cut once.
There are plenty of options. Gluing the 2x6s together at the edges is one way to go. You can use dowels/pegs to join them at the edges, or use pocket joinery, in conjunction with the glue. Probably the simplest thing would be to strap the 2x6s together from the underside with pieces of 1x3 strapping used for hanging drywall on ceilings.

I agree that you should have some kind of bracing on the back. Maybe not a full "X," but just some corner bracing cut from 2x4s.
Sluggo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 04:50 PM   #8
golfer_d
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 181
Default

I am doing this one as well only I am going to make it half the size (I am only putting a 10 gallon on it).
golfer_d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 12:57 AM   #9
GraphicGr8s
Supreme ruler & master
 
GraphicGr8s's Avatar
 
PTrader: (10/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: West coast of the east coast of the USA.
Posts: 2,551
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluggo View Post
There are plenty of options. Gluing the 2x6s together at the edges is one way to go. You can use dowels/pegs to join them at the edges, or use pocket joinery, in conjunction with the glue. Probably the simplest thing would be to strap the 2x6s together from the underside with pieces of 1x3 strapping used for hanging drywall on ceilings.

I agree that you should have some kind of bracing on the back. Maybe not a full "X," but just some corner bracing cut from 2x4s.
None of these techniques will stop warping. Glueing, screwing or doweling will never stop a board from warping. Strapping won't really help either. All wood moves. You can't stop it. You can however minimize the problems. First is to understand wood movement. It will move accross grain more than with grain. In other words the 6" will shrink and expand more than the 8'. In a tabletop you glue up the panel and use a breadboard edge to hide the movement. It is only glued in the very middle of the breadboard edge and it is pinned with wood dowels or pegs on the ends. Another way to minimize the effect is to look at how it is milled. Construction grade lumber is plain sawn. There is also rift sawn but the method of sawing with the least movement is quartersawn. It's also the most expensive wood because of the waste.
Joining the boards to make a single width. With construction grade lumber more than likely you will see the grain curve around the end. It will warp towards the center of the tree. Join the boards with all the rings in the same direction and it warps in a circle. Alternate them and it warps like a wave.
That wood warps is why you never see a paneled door with the panel glued to the stiles and rails. They float in the grove. Glued together it could split the door or you'd see cracks where the boards were glued together. It's also why craftsmen use plywood with a solid wood edging. People talk about plywood cabinets, etc. being lower quality but in reality are the better made.
One way to minimize warp is to seal all six sides in polyurethane. It is a solid coating and minimizes moisture changes in wood. Won't eliminate them but slows it down.
__________________
Quote me as saying I was misquoted.
Once you get rid of integrity the rest is a piece of cake.
Life is simple…People complicate it
Here's to our wives and sweethearts - may they never meet.
If you agreed with me we'd both be right.
GraphicGr8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 03:54 AM   #10
Sluggo
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Portland, Me.
Posts: 235
Default

People use glue, pocket joinery, and straps all the time to make box lids, table tops, simple barn-style doors, whatever, without any breadboard edges. My picnic table sat out in the yard for ten years, and none of the boards ever warped or cupped.

evilhorde, IMO you are overthinking it a little. Unless your lumber is not all the way dried for some reason, you should not develop any spots that would be high enough to be fatal to the tank.
Sluggo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 01:25 PM   #11
GraphicGr8s
Supreme ruler & master
 
GraphicGr8s's Avatar
 
PTrader: (10/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: West coast of the east coast of the USA.
Posts: 2,551
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluggo View Post
People use glue, pocket joinery, and straps all the time to make box lids, table tops, simple barn-style doors, whatever, without any breadboard edges. My picnic table sat out in the yard for ten years, and none of the boards ever warped or cupped.

evilhorde, IMO you are overthinking it a little. Unless your lumber is not all the way dried for some reason, you should not develop any spots that would be high enough to be fatal to the tank.
Was it pressure treated lumber? Because it sure wasn't the joinery that kept it from cupping. And it's not a "new" problem. It's been happening ever since people made stuff from wood.

I never said that everything needed breadboard edges. It is however a tried and true technique to hide wood movement. There are others of course.
And in some places you don't need to hide the problem. Like on a picnic table. Or barn doors. But have you ever noticed that a solid wood top on a table (like a dining room table) is never glued down. And in fact the screws that attach it are in elongated holes? Or in clips in grooves? That's to account for wood movement.
Dry wood to start is great. But it needs to be acclimated before the first cut is made. And it should be acclimated again after the last is made before it's glued up. Especially if it's been face planed.

If a piece is kept in a home with a relatively consistent moisture level than any warping would be minimal any way.
__________________
Quote me as saying I was misquoted.
Once you get rid of integrity the rest is a piece of cake.
Life is simple…People complicate it
Here's to our wives and sweethearts - may they never meet.
If you agreed with me we'd both be right.
GraphicGr8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 01:42 PM   #12
scapegoat
Planted Tank Guru
 
scapegoat's Avatar
 
PTrader: (14/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: philadelphia, pa
Posts: 2,190
Default

use plywood graded with one side for staining. you'll get the finished top and you won't run into warping. or masonite and veneer
__________________
scapegoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 01:57 PM   #13
Sluggo
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Portland, Me.
Posts: 235
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GraphicGr8s View Post
Was it pressure treated lumber? Because it sure wasn't the joinery that kept it from cupping.
No, it was plain old framing material with one coat of redwood stain and no sealer.

Quote:
But have you ever noticed that a solid wood top on a table (like a dining room table) is never glued down. And in fact the screws that attach it are in elongated holes? Or in clips in grooves? That's to account for wood movement.
Yes, but he is not building anything as big as a dining room table. It's only 16" wide. I have never seen a coffee table, or a curio table, or a desk, or anything that size with a floating top.
Sluggo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 02:00 PM   #14
Sluggo
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Portland, Me.
Posts: 235
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scapegoat View Post
use plywood graded with one side for staining. you'll get the finished top and you won't run into warping. or masonite and veneer
I would not use masonite or MDF for an aquarium. No matter how well you think you've sealed it, sooner or later water is going to get at it and it will swell and then start to come apart.
Sluggo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 02:37 PM   #15
scapegoat
Planted Tank Guru
 
scapegoat's Avatar
 
PTrader: (14/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: philadelphia, pa
Posts: 2,190
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluggo View Post
I would not use masonite or MDF for an aquarium. No matter how well you think you've sealed it, sooner or later water is going to get at it and it will swell and then start to come apart.
while that is a concern. others have used masonite. I don't see a reason to completely ignore it as an option. I'm sure if you want you could easily cover it with a few layers of varnish or paint, or even drylok if you want to go that far.

Though, I'd much rather prefer a G1S graded plywood if it'll be visible though.
__________________
scapegoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Planted Tank LLC 2012