Ultilmate fertilizer for faster plant growth - Page 9
Planted Tank Forums
Your Tanks Image Hosting *Tank Tracker * Plant Profiles Fish Profiles Planted Tank Guide Photo Gallery Articles

Go Back   The Planted Tank Forum > Specific Aspects of a Planted Tank > Fertilizers and Water Parameters


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-21-2013, 06:04 PM   #121
UDGags
aka Nick
 
UDGags's Avatar
 
PTrader: (8/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 887
Send a message via AIM to UDGags Send a message via Yahoo to UDGags
Default

If you have a sample of the crud at the bottom I could run a quick FTIR on it.
__________________
UDGags is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-26-2013, 12:12 AM   #122
zimbo
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Gainesville, Florida
Posts: 101
Send a message via Skype™ to zimbo
Default

Happi

So i have mixed two batches with a lab mixer, about to mix the 3rd. So I left the K2SO4 out of it the second time and never had any ppt issues. It does produce some ppt when you leave it in the fridge over time, but nothing compared to when i had the K2SO4 in there.

From using a lab mixer, it is a pretty saturated solution, and does struggle a bit when you get to the last ingredient or two. Personally i plan on getting an auto doser at some point and figured in that situation i'd likely double or triple the dH2O and just increase the volume dosed, although this won't necessarily be practical for most folks.
zimbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2013, 01:19 AM   #123
happi
Planted Tank Guru
 
happi's Avatar
 
PTrader: (20/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 2,751
Send a message via Yahoo to happi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UDGags View Post
If you have a sample of the crud at the bottom I could run a quick FTIR on it.

thanks i will let you know whever i make the next solution.
__________________
happi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2013, 01:22 AM   #124
happi
Planted Tank Guru
 
happi's Avatar
 
PTrader: (20/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 2,751
Send a message via Yahoo to happi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zimbo View Post
Happi

So i have mixed two batches with a lab mixer, about to mix the 3rd. So I left the K2SO4 out of it the second time and never had any ppt issues. It does produce some ppt when you leave it in the fridge over time, but nothing compared to when i had the K2SO4 in there.

From using a lab mixer, it is a pretty saturated solution, and does struggle a bit when you get to the last ingredient or two. Personally i plan on getting an auto doser at some point and figured in that situation i'd likely double or triple the dH2O and just increase the volume dosed, although this won't necessarily be practical for most folks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zimbo View Post
From using a lab mixer, it is a pretty saturated solution, and does struggle a bit when you get to the last ingredient or two.
which last ingredient does it struggle with??
__________________
happi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2013, 01:27 AM   #125
happi
Planted Tank Guru
 
happi's Avatar
 
PTrader: (20/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 2,751
Send a message via Yahoo to happi
Default

you should try this solution and Test it and see how plant will respond to it for you. i need people who are willing to test this one. some minor changes are made.

1000ml solution
Urea (7 gram)
calcium nitrate (10 gram)
Magnesium nitrate (10 gram)
CSM+B (15 gram)
MnSO4 (1 gram)
Ascorbic Acid (1g) (optional)
Potassium Sorbate (0.5g) (optional)

make sure to dose PO4 seperate 3x week 0.50ppm (around 0.16 P)

even though Ascorbic Acid and Potassium Sorbate are optional, i think Ascorbic acid help plant with better growth. add them in the solution before adding anything else and wait for 10 minutes before adding anything else.
__________________
happi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 03:25 AM   #126
AaronT
Collectoritis Patient
 
AaronT's Avatar
 
PTrader: (202/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: MD, USA
Posts: 2,302
Default

Why not use KCL instead of K2SO4? I agree the K2SO4 is a pain to dissolve.
__________________
In the D.C., Maryland, or NOVA area? Come check out The Greater Washington Aquatic Plants Association! www.gwapa.org
AaronT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 07:08 PM   #127
happi
Planted Tank Guru
 
happi's Avatar
 
PTrader: (20/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 2,751
Send a message via Yahoo to happi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronT View Post
Why not use KCL instead of K2SO4? I agree the K2SO4 is a pain to dissolve.
i would but i need a some source of S which come from K2SO4, S is also important for plant growth, it should not be completely taken out. plus i think Cl is bad for plants if its overdosed.
__________________
happi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 07:34 PM   #128
fattboa
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Kuwait
Posts: 55
Default

The magnesium/calcium nitrates reminds me of the older German formulas If I remember correctly. Also reminds me of Tobi's mix. Those Germans love their nitrates.
I've been reading a plant physiology book for fun and its saying something about the negative NO3 ions and positive NH4+ balancing the pH intracellulary (remember compartmentalization results in different pH values). Maybe that's the reason it works? Though the book is mainly about terrestrial plant. Just some preliminary thoughts, nothing conclusive.
Dose away
fattboa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 09:00 PM   #129
dantra
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
dantra's Avatar
 
PTrader: (25/100%)
Join Date: May 2007
Location: TX
Posts: 690
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fattboa View Post
The magnesium/calcium nitrates reminds me of the older German formulas If I remember correctly. Also reminds me of Tobi's mix. Those Germans love their nitrates.
Thats what Tom said. You can read about why some opt out of using Urea here where Tobi intoduced is mix originally at UKAPS. This is a quote from Tobi's instructions:

I'm producing ferts commercially (Aqua Rebell and sell them through my shop "Aquasabi") for people who do not want to work with all those chemicals.
But here is the recipe for the new nitrogen fertilizer, i've posted it at my community http://translate.google.de/translate...4.html&act=url too:

for one liter water add :

25,9 g potassiumnitrate
29,5 g calciumnitrate
17,6 g magnesiumnitrate
5 g urea ( :arrow: your tankwater pH should be <7 to avoid problems with ammonia)

That will add 1 ppm NO3, 0,2 ppm K, 0,1 ppm Ca and 0,033 ppm Mg using 1 ml per 50 l tankwater.

Here is where you can order Tobi's mix

I've read about this about a year ago but I couldn't use urea because my pH is north of 7.0. The mix isn't new and was tried in the past but if Happi "improved" on it a bit then I say have at it. Just be very careful when using Urea. I think the focus is more on getting the nutrients to your plants that they are lacking.

I'm in Texas where the water is basically liquid rock. Now one would think that I have enough calcium and magnesium because my GH and KH are through the roof, most of the times north of 14 sometimes as high as 22. What I discovered was that the water is very rich in calcium but had very little to no magnesium so when I started adding just magnesium the plants perked up and took off.

Just like in the UK, the water is rich in calcium but has very little magnesium in some places so when they started adding magnesium the plants reacted in a very positive way. If your plants are getting the nutrients they need and are none-limiting, no amount of Urea is going to change that. Just be careful and enjoy the plants

Dan
dantra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 09:14 PM   #130
happi
Planted Tank Guru
 
happi's Avatar
 
PTrader: (20/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 2,751
Send a message via Yahoo to happi
Default

Tobi also stated K+ stunting the plants, this is not true at all, plant need K+ more than any other things, IMO it should be always higher, least 3 times higher than the Nitrogen. Tobi also have taken out Urea from his fert, while i think Urea is the main player here for fast plant growth.

am not working with Tobi's fert or trying to modify it, this is not even related to his fert at all, am working on this fert based on the research i been doing on plants, how they respond to differnt sources of nitrates etc.

someone told me to use Mg sulfate and Ca sulfate to get same results but IMO it have soulibilty issue when adding in the solution, Mg and Ca nitrate were the only good source to work with. its not only the nitrate which is important here, but Mg and Ca are more important.
__________________
happi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 09:29 PM   #131
fattboa
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Kuwait
Posts: 55
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dantra View Post
Thats what Tom said. You can read about why some opt out of using Urea here where Tobi intoduced is mix originally at UKAPS. This is a quote from Tobi's instructions:

I'm producing ferts commercially (Aqua Rebell and sell them through my shop "Aquasabi") for people who do not want to work with all those chemicals.
But here is the recipe for the new nitrogen fertilizer, i've posted it at my community http://translate.google.de/translate...4.html&act=url too:

for one liter water add :

25,9 g potassiumnitrate
29,5 g calciumnitrate
17,6 g magnesiumnitrate
5 g urea ( :arrow: your tankwater pH should be <7 to avoid problems with ammonia)

That will add 1 ppm NO3, 0,2 ppm K, 0,1 ppm Ca and 0,033 ppm Mg using 1 ml per 50 l tankwater.

Here is where you can order Tobi's mix

I've read about this about a year ago but I couldn't use urea because my pH is north of 7.0. The mix isn't new and was tried in the past but if Happi "improved" on it a bit then I say have at it. Just be very careful when using Urea. I think the focus is more on getting the nutrients to your plants that they are lacking.

I'm in Texas where the water is basically liquid rock. Now one would think that I have enough calcium and magnesium because my GH and KH are through the roof, most of the times north of 14 sometimes as high as 22. What I discovered was that the water is very rich in calcium but had very little to no magnesium so when I started adding just magnesium the plants perked up and took off.

Just like in the UK, the water is rich in calcium but has very little magnesium in some places so when they started adding magnesium the plants reacted in a very positive way. If your plants are getting the nutrients they need and are none-limiting, no amount of Urea is going to change that. Just be careful and enjoy the plants

Dan
I did buy one kilogram of urea but I have yet to use it. Maybe I will experiment a little. Currently trying synthetic auxins (NAA/NAD) at around 10-9M (or at least I hope). My pH is also north of 7 and I am aware of the issues but need to look at a few graphs regarding disassociation vs pH to gauge the danger or risk. I don't think all of the NH4+ will convert into NH3 just as you reach a pH of 7, perhaps a bit more? Interesting, the water (desalinated seawater really) around here is also very poor in Mg yet high in Ca with but also soft I believe. Could not find any good kits and not bothered to test at the university (too many questions asked)
I do find some very interesting products around here, like this one: http://www.chema.com.eg/SpcialFertilizers.html scroll down to Elodia* (sic) which reminded/lead me to this while searching about allelopathy a while back: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...Ll0KOdPpBM2WQ7
Which coincidentally is also done in Germany! Those Germans love aquatic plants. I only read the abstract and skimmed the paper so apologies if it is not related.

Quote:
Originally Posted by happi View Post
Tobi also stated K+ stunting the plants, this is not true at all, plant need K+ more than any other things, IMO it should be always higher, least 3 times higher than the Nitrogen. Tobi also have taken out Urea from his fert, while i think Urea is the main player here for fast plant growth.

am not working with Tobi's fert or trying to modify it, this is not even related to his fert at all, am working on this fert based on the research i been doing on plants, how they respond to differnt sources of nitrates etc.

someone told me to use Mg sulfate and Ca sulfate to get same results but IMO it have soulibilty issue when adding in the solution, Mg and Ca nitrate were the only good source to work with. its not only the nitrate which is important here, but Mg and Ca are more important.
I wish you good luck.
fattboa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 09:37 PM   #132
happi
Planted Tank Guru
 
happi's Avatar
 
PTrader: (20/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 2,751
Send a message via Yahoo to happi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fattboa View Post
I did buy one kilogram of urea but I have yet to use it. Maybe I will experiment a little. Currently trying synthetic auxins (NAA/NAD) at around 10-9M (or at least I hope). My pH is also north of 7 and I am aware of the issues but need to look at a few graphs to gauge the danger or risk. Interesting, the water (desalinated seawater really) around here is also very poor in Mg yet high in Ca with but also soft I believe. Could not find any good kits and not bothered to test at the university (too many questions asked)
I do find some very interesting products around here, like this one: http://www.chema.com.eg/SpcialFertilizers.html scroll down to Elodia* (sic) which reminded/lead me to this while searching about allelopathy a while back: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...Ll0KOdPpBM2WQ7
Which coincidentally is also done in Germany! Those Germans love aquatic plants. I only read the abstract and skimmed the paper so apologies if it is not related.


I wish you good luck.
am not sure wheather to take this the wrong way or the right way?
__________________
happi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 09:47 PM   #133
fattboa
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Kuwait
Posts: 55
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by happi View Post
am not sure wheather to take this the wrong way or the right way?
I am actively seeking ingredients to test your fertilizer but they are a little hard to come by in my country (only 25kg bags of calcium nitrate - thats ~55 lbs).
I meant it in the most sincere form. Trying new concepts will benefit this hobby as a whole
fattboa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 09:51 PM   #134
happi
Planted Tank Guru
 
happi's Avatar
 
PTrader: (20/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 2,751
Send a message via Yahoo to happi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fattboa View Post
I am actively seeking ingredients to test your fertilizer but they are a little hard to come by in my country (only 25kg bags of calcium nitrate - thats ~55 lbs).
I meant it in the most sincere form. Trying new concepts will benefit this hobby as a whole
k then

i think you can get it from them for less quantity, am sure they can do that if you ask them.
__________________
happi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 09:55 PM   #135
happi
Planted Tank Guru
 
happi's Avatar
 
PTrader: (20/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 2,751
Send a message via Yahoo to happi
Default

Fattboa

i highly suggest reading this reasearch paper, this will unlock many question and answers, its quite long but very useful.

http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/X6862E/X6862E03.htm
__________________
happi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Planted Tank LLC 2012