Can I put Cardinal Tetras in a fluval edge 6?
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:35 PM   #1
CuriousAmerican
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Can I put Cardinal Tetras in a fluval edge 6?


BTW: I posted something similar to this on another thread, but under a poor title so no one answered. Hopefully, I get a response here

======================

I know the 1" rule, but Cardinal Tetras are a very low bioload.

The Cardinals are the key. I hate neon tetras, which are half green anyway.

I know AqAdvisor says you need a 10 gallon for Cardinals
But the footprint of a Fluval is roughly equal to a 10

10 gallon
20l x 10w x 12 h ======= 200 sq in
Fluval edge 6G (23l)
16.9 x 10.75w x 8.9 h ======= 181 sq in
5.5 gallon
16l x 8w x 10h ======= 160 sq in

=====================================

I was thinking

Fauna:


A) 6 Cardinal Tetras (NO neons. I hate neons) Cardinals have low bioload.
B) 2-3 Celestial Pearl Danios (CPDS) (these are small) low bioload.
C) 2 Otos (I would go with one, but I am told they are nervous alone)
D) Amano Shrimp

I know I would be overstocking a bit, but I love Cardinal tetras.

The way I see it is: If you can put Cardinals in a 10 gallon which some say is okay, a fluval should not be too bad.

And the 1 inch rule is sort of out of line hear. 10 inches of tetras (5 cardinals) does not each 10" of 1 oscar.

Cardinals and CPD are extremely small bioload and relatively thin.

I asked this on another thread and no one answered. My bad. I had an unusual title and was not clear that I was asking a question.

I AM ASKING QUESTIONS HERE:

I would go with:

Plants:

Fluval edge 6 stock lighting

Some soil and tabs (put only where plants are to be planted)
Then capped with 1" white sand. Basically white Petco sand over some islands of soil where plants are to be

Small driftwood Not boiled NOT soaked with java moss glued to it. Maybe a small fern glued to it

1) Anubia (dim corner) (can you recommend a slow growing one)
2) Java Fern (dim corner) These are slow growing
3) Blyxa Japonica (under light) Fast, but it is where I can trim it easier
4) rotala indica front corner I do not know how fast this is.
5) Marimo Moss ball in front corner Maybe 2

WHAT A I WANT ARE LOW LIGHT - SLOW GROWING PLANTS

I do not want a jungle. NOT IN AN EDGE!

I will be difficult enough to trim.

I want enough plants to cycle the waste; but not enough to make a jungle.
I might add another marimo ball if needed.

(Can you break marimos in two and will they grow?)

When I joined this forum, I was considering a 20L, but I am falling in love with the edge 6. I just want some cardinals in it. And a an oto or 2 with 2-3 CPDs.

I know the rules; but if someone says only shrimp or a betta (and half of the bettas cannot find the hole anyway) then I am out of the running with an edge.

BTW, is there anyway to aerate an edge. Everyone who does it says the mist blows out the light.

I do not care about water hitting the top. I would go with a few mm gap. The tank looks spectacular, but the oxygenation seems awful.

I would NOT be using C02. NOT in an edge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzOJjmXjeH8
He has Zebra tetras, but I want Cardinals.

This looks great, but the problem with these is that they all look good for one week, and then next week you have a jungle which in an edge would be a disaster.

I may add some light later on.

I was thinking of this overpriced, but low light

Marineland light bar 4W

And I would get a 100 W heater, (Aqueon pro polymer) because I sometime drop room temp to 50F.

Between the filter, light bar, heater and stock light, I would expect to use only 120 W and then only when the heater kicks in, which should be infrequent.

So can I put Cardinal tetras in a fluval.

BTW: can you embed video in a post
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:55 PM   #2
discuspaul
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I'd say you will be somewhat overcrowded. But it's your call. If you have good filtration on the Fluval and you're amenable to doing weekly wcs of a decent size, then you could give it a try and see how it works out, if that's what you desire.
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:39 AM   #3
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I would skip the cards, just go with smaller fish like CPD or Embers or the dwarf Rasboras (any of several species) there is even a very blue dwarf rasbora that is the same blue as cardinal tetras.
Just one species of fish.
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Old 01-19-2013, 03:48 AM   #4
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I also agree that you should consider a smaller species than the cardinals. A bigger main school of a boraras species or CPD would be better
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Old 01-19-2013, 03:49 AM   #5
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I feel they need more swimming space than that, but it's up to you.
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:07 AM   #6
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I guess you could put anything you like - it's your tank after all. But I personally would not. I had ~7 Neons in a 12g long and apparently it still was not large enough for them - they basically just stayed in one place facing the current and rarely moved from that spot - pretty boring. I re-homed them into a 40B and now they are all over the place.

As others have mentioned, you would get more enjoyment out of smaller guys in a smaller space.
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:32 AM   #7
CuriousAmerican
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OVT View Post
I guess you could put anything you like - it's your tank after all. But I personally would not. I had ~7 Neons in a 12g long and apparently it still was not large enough for them - they basically just stayed in one place facing the current and rarely moved from that spot - pretty boring. I re-homed them into a 40B and now they are all over the place.

A 12 gallon long is 35 inches while a 40 Breeder is 36"

Why wouldn't they shoal in a 12 gallon long?

I did some recalculations

It seems my dimenions were off

5.5 gallon = 160 sq inches 16 Long
10 gallon = 200 sq inches 20 long
fluval 161.7 sq inches 16.5 long 16.5 x 9.8 x 8.3 = approx 5.7 gallons (so it is closer to a 5.5 not a ten, though it is wider)

I think AqAdvisor = inside dimensions which are more accurate.

My bedroom is small. Not much space. So a fluval is perfect.

I know they won't be able to shoal, but they can group together.

Would they die in a fluval if all other things are in order? I have seen reports where people with planted fluval can overstock once the cycle is running.

I know they cannot shoal like schools for a length.

Cardinals are a thing of mine. They are the only tropicals that come close to the color of saltwater. At least to my mind.

I do not mind if the cardinal tetras sort of congregate. What I do not want to be is cruel.

I have seen them in smaller tanks and they seem okay.

There is not way, at this point in my life, that I will ever get a 40B.

Anyhow, how would my plants be with stock lighting.


Small driftwood Not boiled NOT soaked with java moss glued to it. Maybe a small fern glued to it

1) Anubia (dim corner) (can you recommend a slow growing one)
2) Java Fern (dim corner) These are slow growing
3) Blyxa Japonica (under light) Fast, but it is where I can trim it easier
4) rotala indica front corner I do not know how fast this is.
5) Marimo Moss ball in front corner Maybe 2

I want this low tech.

I know

six cardinal tetras, 2-3 CPDs, and an oto, are technically overstocking, but these are low bioloads.

That is 9-10 fish, but may not produce the bioload of 2 platies or guppies, or even one pea puffer which I am told is a micro fish but a macro mess.

The fluval is so elegant but so poorly designed. I have to write to hagen with some ideas.

They could have made that hole and light bigger. The could have angled the hole rim so that the light would fan out instead of being contained.

They could have protected the lighting better so an air stone could be used under the hole without frying the light.

The fluval edge is beauty in a tank, but it violates every rule of good tank design.

1) Not enough oxygen area.
2) poor lighting distribution.

The only thing it has going for it is a good filter, an oversized AQ20.

Even then you have to put a rock under the filter to prevent it from washing away soil or sand underneath it.

One guy on Yahoo (I think) said Cardinal Tetras stress out and die in small tanks in a year. I doubt that. I seriously doubt smaller length kills them. I suspect poorer water quality.

But the AQ20 would take care of a lot of that. The plants would take care of more. And I would consider probably a half gallon water change twice a week or more.

I think AQ advisor is too conservative. Their figures are based on no plants. Plants are natural filters.

Anyhow ... how are the plants I suggested to an edge?

Do cardinals die if they cannot shoal? but all other things are in order.

I may have to go to to a ten gallon which I do not want to do. I have a table which is perfect for an edge ... or a 5.5 gallon; but is only 18" wide and too short for a 10 gallon.

I still do not understand why a 12 long was not suitable for you and your cardinals.

I know someone will recommend scarlet badis, but they are finicky eaters. I do not want to spend $10 a week feeding them specialty food when cardinals will eat flakes.

Last edited by CuriousAmerican; 01-19-2013 at 11:42 AM.. Reason: Mistaken spelling which I am sure I did not totally correct
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:02 PM   #8
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12g long might be ~35" long but it is also 8" deep and 9" high... even plants I keep there seem to 'sense' the tank's size, plants that can get very big very quickly stay at 4-8" for years. Not just Java Fern or S. repens, but Tiger Lotus, Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Cuba', a sword, and such.

I don't like my personal opinion on the subject as much as you don't, but you asked for one and I gave you mine .

Maybe another way to look at it: say I put my dog in a 24'x6' dog run - fresh air, all the food he wants, play with him an hour every day, plenty of toys, some trees, some bushes, a big warm dog house to sleep in. But he gotta stay in the dog run all his life. I just don't think it would be a good or a long one.

All the best to you in whatever you want to undertake. And I mean it.
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:10 PM   #9
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I tend to be an overstocker, so take my opinion with that in mind. From a biological standpoint, I think you'll be fine, especially if you keep up on the water changes, maybe put some bio media in the filter. Plants will help, but not as much with your slow growers.

I don't even think that you'll have a space related overstocking situation.

My only concern is the potential that the cards would feel a little cramped in that setup.

The neons I have are quite blue, the same as any cardinals I've seen. Maybe you can do a little shopping around to find "blue" neons.
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Old 01-19-2013, 04:31 PM   #10
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I still urge you to do all CPD's as they are a schooling fish and 2-3 would make them uncomfortable. Your cards may never show their true behavior/color if they are cramped up to much. Just ask me, my tank got too heavily planted and cramped and it had a negative impact on all my fish's behavior. They all became extremely skittish.

But as others have said it is your call.
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Old 01-19-2013, 04:37 PM   #11
CuriousAmerican
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OVT View Post

Maybe another way to look at it: say I put my dog in a 24'x6' dog run - fresh air, all the food he wants, play with him an hour every day, plenty of toys, some trees, some bushes, a big warm dog house to sleep in. But he gotta stay in the dog run all his life. I just don't think it would be a good or a long one.

All the best to you in whatever you want to undertake. And I mean it.
I sort of agree; but dogs are mammals with mammalian brains.

Fish are not the same order of life. Wonderful. Vertebrates. But not mammals.

You cannot train a fish like you can train a dog - except maybe an oscar; but compare an oscar to a cardinal tetra.

Fish have personalities, yet; but not like mammals.

I do not think cramping is as much an issue with the tetras as it is with dogs. What I want to know is if it will decrease their life expectancy.

I understand your point. But there is no way I could get a 40B. I would love to. I know big tanks are more stable. But I am stuck with either a fluval or a 10. I am aiming for a 10. I was hoping for a 20 but that seems out of it.

But according to you even a 12 long was cramped.

If a 35" tank was cramped for cardinals, then I have to accept my cardinals would be cramped.

I just want to know they will suffer physically.

These are tetras. I am not worried about emotional growth.
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:38 PM   #12
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While they may not have the same intelligence as mammals, what they do have is pretty friggin hard-wired. A dog, given sufficient emotional support and variety of stimulation, can often adapt to otherwise poor conditions. A fish, unable to benefit from emotional support and stressed, not supported, by highly variable sensory input, is MORE dependent on their environmental conditions, not less.

Understocking a tank not only improves the conditions for the inhabitants but also provides a buffer against problems. If you're living right on the edge of disaster all it takes is one miscalculation to see it spiral out of control.

We already severely cramp our fish by putting them in aquariums at all. Offering them the best possible compromise for their natural conditions just makes sense. Happily, what makes our fish feel secure and safe generally results in behavior patterns that benefit US as owners--less hiding, brighter colors, less aggression within and between species, they eat better, show a greater variety and complexity of natural behaviors, and the lower stress translates to greater resistance to disease. Win-win for them and us.
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