plants are getting light green, yellow then became like a Sieve
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:03 PM   #1
mustafa shashaah
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plants are getting light green, yellow then became like a Sieve


3 years ago, i used to have frontosa and Oscar fish. 8 months ago i started having discus, neon and some plants, after 5 months, developed to have full planted tank, 1.5 centimeter of substrate and 4 centimeter of gravel , it was magnificent.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/pi...ictureid=13985

the plants were growing well and very fast, i used to run the lights and co2 1 bubble/sec. for 12-14 hour a day, my swords grows up to 80 centimeters and so other plants till i started cutting the edges.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/pi...ictureid=14001

after tow months , i discovered some hair algae and alot of black spots on the leafs. i hocked a UV sterilizer, used my hands to get the hair algae out of my tank lost a lot of plants because i cut the damaged plants with black spots, i used a fish care specialist (green a way), turned the lights off for 2 days, i changed 30% of tap water, then i used (Nitrifying Bacteria 14 in 1), it works to get rid of the algae.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/pi...ictureid=14033

but now after (2 weeks) is the horrible thing . my plants color gets light green, yellow and some of them became like a Sieve as shown in my photo album no3.
my Tank is a 29 gallons.
120 ltr of tap water, Temperature 83 F.
60w 10000 k & 40w 6500 k.
ph controller, co2 kit fixed at 6.85 through the day, but goes up to 8.01 at night.
UV sterilizer 11watt.
2 discus and a bout 35 tetras, neon, rummy nose, red eye, Green fire and zebra, all of them are small size.
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:10 PM   #2
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Mustafa - you will need to read up on plant nutrients. Besides CO2, plants need macro and micro nutrients. It sounds/looks like your macros (NPK) have run out, which will stop plant growth and eventually kill them. No plant growth also results in algae, and while you can add all sort of algae killers it doesn't resolve the situation. Forget about the algae and focus on your plants. Healthy growing plants are the best algae killer.
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Old 01-07-2013, 03:16 AM   #3
mustafa shashaah
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Smile alot of thanks to you Wasserpest

Hello my dear Waeeerpest
i used these essential nutrients before and added 50 ml of Tetra Plant plantaMin to the water, that was 4 weeks ago, but after i added it i faced the hair algae so i stopped adding it again, i was afraid, because i thought it promotes the algae, the planta Min contains iron & manganese & other macro nutrients such as potassium. so, is it ok to add an other 50ml of plantaMin again or not ( the instructions said to use it every 4 weeks ).
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Old 01-07-2013, 03:53 PM   #4
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Most of the commercially available aquarium plant nutrients do not contain (at least in noticeable amounts) Nitrates or Phosphates. Yet both are required for healthy plant growth.

Adding nutrients per se does not lead to algae, however, if your plants are already dying, or some other nutrient is missing, it might seem like it. Google "Liebigs law of the minimum" for a good visualization.

Plants need ALL nutrients in small amounts. Adding something every 4 weeks seems not a very good approach. Most of us dose DAILY.

So... my recommendation would be to get some KNO3 and KH2PO4 (if available where you live), read up on dosing, and then start in small amounts, and monitor your tank over longer periods. Yes, initially you might get an increase in algae, as your plants are not in their best shape to process the nutrients and grow. Perhaps adding some healthy plant mass along with the nutrients would be a good idea too.
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Old 01-07-2013, 07:30 PM   #5
mustafa shashaah
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Default i appreciate your effort in helping me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wasserpest View Post
Most of the commercially available aquarium plant nutrients do not contain (at least in noticeable amounts) Nitrates or Phosphates. Yet both are required for healthy plant growth.

Adding nutrients per se does not lead to algae, however, if your plants are already dying, or some other nutrient is missing, it might seem like it. Google "Liebigs law of the minimum" for a good visualization.

Plants need ALL nutrients in small amounts. Adding something every 4 weeks seems not a very good approach. Most of us dose DAILY.

So... my recommendation would be to get some KNO3 and KH2PO4 (if available where you live), read up on dosing, and then start in small amounts, and monitor your tank over longer periods. Yes, initially you might get an increase in algae, as your plants are not in their best shape to process the nutrients and grow. Perhaps adding some healthy plant mass along with the nutrients would be a good idea too.
would you please take a look to my photo album no:3 to evaluate my situation. by the way today i bought "Test 6 in 1" to test my water, i think the kh & gh are very hi. when i make the test i will post the results to you.
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Old 01-07-2013, 09:54 PM   #6
HD Blazingwolf
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your situation is you need nutrients. it is very apparent

nitrogen, phosphorous, potassium, calcium, magnesium, manganese, iron, zinc, boron, sulfer, copper, and any others i missed
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:23 PM   #7
mustafa shashaah
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Default my water test results

i used the Tetra Test 6 in 1 and this is the results

no3 : 100
no2 : between 1-5
gh : 16 degree
kh : 20 degree
ph : 8.0
cl2 : zeero
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:47 PM   #8
HD Blazingwolf
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What is ur po4 at? Nitrites should be zero, same with ammonia. Both of those can burn plants at high enoug levels
So no2, and nh3/nh4 should be zero
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:29 PM   #9
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There are a lot of things going on here:

1) First, you have an awfully long photoperiod. Plants need "sleep" just like we do, and perform different tasks during the times of light and darkness. Though it's a matter of opinion, I'd say 12 hours max is acceptable, 10 hours preferable. Your health will gradually decline if you consistently get too little sleep, and so will your plants; even if they seem to be doing well at first.

2) Then, it sounds like you shortened leaves on your swords by cutting them. While I'm not sure about your swords in particular, not all plants tolerate this well. Leaves injured by cutting can slowly die off over weeks or months, and unhealthy leaves attract algae like a magnet. This may have been a major contributing factor to the algae's first appearance, though it may not have been the only factor. It's usually better to remove whole leaves. New ones will soon appear to replace what you remove.

3) Next, you used UV. This is really only effective against fine algae suspended in the water, like green water. It can't touch the hair algae already securely attached to plants, though it may kill the occasional fragment that breaks off before it has a chance to reattach elsewhere. UV also breaks down iron in the water, changing it into a form that precipitates out to the bottom of the tank, and that plants can't directly use. As it sounds like you're dosing all nutrients by adding them to the water, unless you compensated for this by dosing additional iron, you may have starved your plants of this essential nutrient.

4) Finally, you used "green a way". If by this you are referring to Interpet's Green Away, it too is only effective against green water; causing the fine suspended algae to clump together so it can be filtered out. Totally useless for your algae. While it sounds as if it would normally be safe, any chemical treatment has potential for harm, especially if plants or other tank inhabitants are already weakened.

A lot of small errors and unintended side effects, all compounded together into one big problem.

I think others are already covering possibilities of nutrient deficiency quite well, so I'll leave that to them; other than the UV/iron interaction I already commented on.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:13 PM   #10
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Thanks for filling that in cobra, i completely missed those aspects when i read the posts...
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:30 PM   #11
mustafa shashaah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wasserpest View Post
Most of the commercially available aquarium plant nutrients do not contain (at least in noticeable amounts) Nitrates or Phosphates. Yet both are required for healthy plant growth.

Adding nutrients per se does not lead to algae, however, if your plants are already dying, or some other nutrient is missing, it might seem like it. Google "Liebigs law of the minimum" for a good visualization.

Plants need ALL nutrients in small amounts. Adding something every 4 weeks seems not a very good approach. Most of us dose DAILY.

So... my recommendation would be to get some KNO3 and KH2PO4 (if available where you live), read up on dosing, and then start in small amounts, and monitor your tank over longer periods. Yes, initially you might get an increase in algae, as your plants are not in their best shape to process the nutrients and grow. Perhaps adding some healthy plant mass along with the nutrients would be a good idea too.

ok dear Wasserpest
1- i started adding the planta Min daily 2ml, it contains iron, manganese, potassium & other macro nutrients.
i will ask about the KNO3 , KH2PO4 at agriculture stores but my be they don't know the dosage because they don't know about fish and water plants.
2- my water test shows that i have high levels Gh 16 Kh 20 and No2 about 1.5 tommorow i will get Ro water Tds 25
and change 50% of the tank to lower the Gh and Kh but why i have high level No2 ?? and how do i solve these things
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:56 PM   #12
mustafa shashaah
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Default Hello Blazingwolf

Quote:
Originally Posted by HD Blazingwolf View Post
your situation is you need nutrients. it is very apparent

nitrogen, phosphorous, potassium, calcium, magnesium, manganese, iron, zinc, boron, sulfer, copper, and any others i missed
thanks for caring, my dear,
please read my answer to Waeeerpest about nutrients, note: i have fish and plants in my Tank,
how do i test nh3/nh4
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:13 PM   #13
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While I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as the other posters, maybe my experience will offer encouragement.

I had "beginner" plants (java fern, anubias, swords, hygro) for over a 1 year my in aquarium, and while they never thrived they survived growing very slowly. Algae problems were dealt with by buying algae eaters. Mostly newly introduced plants would melt or be consumed by algae. I tried dosing with Seachem Flourish and upgraded lights. All I got was more algae and faster plant death.

After much resistance I started giving in...dosing with Excel, then root tabs, then liquid fertz, then CO2, then dry fertz. With each step I saw incremental improvement and I've finally reached a stable state where there's good, healthy growth with minimal algae. Results weren't instant, it always took 1-2 weeks to notice a change, sometimes longer for sickly or slow growing plants.

So let me confirm everything that others have said is absolutely true -- macro & micro fertilizers in addition to the CO2 and good lights are an absolute must.

This thread is a must read: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=21944
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:22 PM   #14
mustafa shashaah
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Default Hello DarkCobra

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkCobra View Post
There are a lot of things going on here:

1) First, you have an awfully long photoperiod. Plants need "sleep" just like we do, and perform different tasks during the times of light and darkness. Though it's a matter of opinion, I'd say 12 hours max is acceptable, 10 hours preferable. Your health will gradually decline if you consistently get too little sleep, and so will your plants; even if they seem to be doing well at first.

2) Then, it sounds like you shortened leaves on your swords by cutting them. While I'm not sure about your swords in particular, not all plants tolerate this well. Leaves injured by cutting can slowly die off over weeks or months, and unhealthy leaves attract algae like a magnet. This may have been a major contributing factor to the algae's first appearance, though it may not have been the only factor. It's usually better to remove whole leaves. New ones will soon appear to replace what you remove.

3) Next, you used UV. This is really only effective against fine algae suspended in the water, like green water. It can't touch the hair algae already securely attached to plants, though it may kill the occasional fragment that breaks off before it has a chance to reattach elsewhere. UV also breaks down iron in the water, changing it into a form that precipitates out to the bottom of the tank, and that plants can't directly use. As it sounds like you're dosing all nutrients by adding them to the water, unless you compensated for this by dosing additional iron, you may have starved your plants of this essential nutrient.

4) Finally, you used "green a way". If by this you are referring to Interpet's Green Away, it too is only effective against green water; causing the fine suspended algae to clump together so it can be filtered out. Totally useless for your algae. While it sounds as if it would normally be safe, any chemical treatment has potential for harm, especially if plants or other tank inhabitants are already weakened.

A lot of small errors and unintended side effects, all compounded together into one big problem.

I think others are already covering possibilities of nutrient deficiency quite well, so I'll leave that to them; other than the UV/iron interaction I already commented on.
Mr. DarkCobra, thanks for fully explaining my situation and giving answers to solve it.
1- since a while i hocked a timer to the 100w of Aqua. lights just for 11 hours a day.
2- i will follow the advice.
3- after i used the uv sterilizer and turning the lights of for 2 days, i made a 30% water change then i put the iron, manganese & other macro nutrients such as potassium, but, yea you are right, i may have starved my plants of the essential nutrient, because i started using it 2 months after Cultivating it.
4- i used a little of algae remover (green a way) as prescribed, but it's right this may be harmful for the plants but commercially they don't admit it. Note: now i don't have that much algae as before, the uv & green a way helps getting rid of the swimming algae, i took out the hair by hands and turned the lights off for 48 houres.
"""" A lot of small errors and unintended side effects, all compounded together into one big problem"""
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:44 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mustafa shashaah View Post
i used the Tetra Test 6 in 1 and this is the results

no3 : 100
no2 : between 1-5
gh : 16 degree
kh : 20 degree
ph : 8.0
cl2 : zeero
Well, this comes a bit as a surprise. If that is true, then you have an excess of Nitrates. And Nitrites should be zero. KH and GH are a bit on the high side, possibly you are using a substrate that is not completely inert?

One thing you might want to do is to "calibrate" your test kit by testing different water sources with known parameters. You might know what is in your tap water, so you could verify that. You could also test some distilled water which should show as zero NO3 and NO2.

Keep in mind that the "test strips" are not very precise. Still should give you a rough estimate. If you confirm your test results, it might be good to increase your regular water changes. NO2 is poisonous for fish.
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