BBA is killing me! Thinking about going low-tech because of it - Page 3
Planted Tank Forums
Your Tanks Image Hosting *Tank Tracker * Plant Profiles Fish Profiles Planted Tank Guide Photo Gallery Articles

Go Back   The Planted Tank Forum > Specific Aspects of a Planted Tank > Algae


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-02-2013, 11:35 PM   #31
houseofcards
Planted Tank Guru
 
houseofcards's Avatar
 
PTrader: (55/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,612
Default

I would definitely do the organic removal thing. I always do that from day one to lessen the change of anything starting along with a short light duration and seeding of the bio-filter. Do you have plants that grow or mostly slow growers, etc taking up most of the space. I guess I'll see that from the pic. The whole carbon is bad for plants is really alot of BS. If you have algae issues or want to prevent algae issues don't hesitate to use carbon and/or organic waste removal media.

In addition to changing water do you remove dead leaves regularly and what is your fish load and feeding. The cleanliness of the water is key especially if you have already reducing lighting, etc. I'm no a big fan of dirt bottoms, but does that get stirred up at all?
houseofcards is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-02-2013, 11:53 PM   #32
@marko@
Planted Tank Guru
 
@marko@'s Avatar
 
PTrader: (57/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: livingston, nj
Posts: 5,679
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shinycard255 View Post
If there were a pill to kill all algae, that would be a miracle, but I don't see that happening. I have quite a few plants that grow like weeds in my tank, while others don't grow as fast

I've only done H2O2 as a tap/h2o2 solution out of the tank in a 5g bucket as a dip, but never as spot treating.

So how can I treat my CO2 issue to get rid of the BBA? My DC is yellow, I changed flow up a bit (it might have been that, but not sure), EI dosing, and have around 50PAR of light at the substrate



This tank has bad BBA in it for the past few months. Balance light and CO2? I thought BBA comes from the fluctuation of CO2 in the water, not the lighting?

(sorry for duplicating my answer, but I said the same thing up above to Tom)
My DC is yellow, I changed flow up a bit (it might have been that, but not sure), EI dosing, and have around 50PAR of light at the substrate
bba comes from CO2 problems, yes. but whether it can be a sign of CO2 flux, or overall insufficiency, i cant say; probably both induce it equally well.
light drive CO2 need. the more light you have, the more CO2 you need. its a balancing act.
i do not use a drop checker. used to, but then trashed it. i used to keep it green in my ADA 30C, and my CO2 was not high enough (my tank had a ph of 6.7 at that time). then i turned up the CO2 til it turned yellow and my tank had a ph of 6.2 (i keep mentioning ph cuz i keep my CO2 on a ph controller, and can indicate how much more im putting relative to the previous value). but i still had some CO2 problems, including BBA. a while later, i removed the drop checker and started paying attention to my plants instead to see what they say.
got the tank to this (with a ph of 5.4):


the drop checker was giving me a false answer. its not the best tool in the world.
but look at the other part of the picture. that tank used to have BBA problems, and it was saved.
good CO2, flow, and nutrients to encourage plant vigor and halt BBA growth, and some occasional excel to kill what BBA was still there was all it took. simple, but only in retrospect.
__________________
@marko@ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 12:00 AM   #33
houseofcards
Planted Tank Guru
 
houseofcards's Avatar
 
PTrader: (55/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,612
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by @marko@ View Post
bba comes from CO2 problems, yes. but whether it can be a sign of CO2 flux, or overall insufficiency, i cant say; probably both induce it equally well.
...
That's just way to general a statement IMO. If that was true, every tank without CO2 would have BBA and that's not the case. What every tank has is organic waste and this needs to be kept in check especially if the plant uptake isn't there.
houseofcards is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 12:22 AM   #34
@marko@
Planted Tank Guru
 
@marko@'s Avatar
 
PTrader: (57/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: livingston, nj
Posts: 5,679
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofcards View Post
That's just way to general a statement IMO. If that was true, every tank without CO2 would have BBA and that's not the case. What every tank has is organic waste and this needs to be kept in check especially if the plant uptake isn't there.
shouldve read the next line. light drives CO2 need. low light tanks need less CO2, if you have low enough light, ambient CO2 is enough and you dont need to supplement it.
that said, dissolved organics do tend to help most algae out; and good maintenance never hurt an aquarium.
__________________
@marko@ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 01:14 AM   #35
m00se
Wannabe Guru
 
m00se's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 1,481
Default

40b with inert blasting grit sub. Tank set up 1 year. 50+% WC every Sunday. NO3 ~40-60 ppm. Dose KH2PO4, KSO4, CSM+B per Wet's calculator. FE when I think about it. No other algae issues.

I received a "gift" of bba along with a batch of plants someone gave me from their soon-to-be-torn-down tank. I didn't bleach them, and what a mistake. I have battled it for 8+ months now, using the usual techniques. It grows everywhere. I do EI and 5 bps pressurized CO2, three 23w CFLs on 9 hours a day. Cerges reactor on a closed loop pump. Drop checker canary yellow on opposite side of tank from CO2 spray bars. FX5 through spray bars. Plenty of water movement... Parameters are fine. Chock full of stems and crypts.

I have BBA growing at each hole on the spray bar. Nice beautiful tufts that I have to scrub off with a toothbrush after I soak the bar in strong bleach solution for 2 hours....


I put 6 American Flag fish in this tank, and I can say without a doubt, the bba is disappearing. I am impressed with these beautiful fish. But...bba? Yea, tell me all about parameters and this and that. My experience is a bit different on this one.
m00se is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 01:23 AM   #36
shinycard255
Wannabe Guru
 
shinycard255's Avatar
 
PTrader: (18/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Plainfield, IL
Posts: 1,638
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofcards View Post
I would definitely do the organic removal thing. I always do that from day one to lessen the change of anything starting along with a short light duration and seeding of the bio-filter. Do you have plants that grow or mostly slow growers, etc taking up most of the space. I guess I'll see that from the pic. The whole carbon is bad for plants is really alot of BS. If you have algae issues or want to prevent algae issues don't hesitate to use carbon and/or organic waste removal media.

In addition to changing water do you remove dead leaves regularly and what is your fish load and feeding. The cleanliness of the water is key especially if you have already reducing lighting, etc. I'm no a big fan of dirt bottoms, but does that get stirred up at all?
I updated my previous post with a pic of the tank.

I'll get my hands on some carbon and toss those in a for a few weeks and see if it helps.

I do try to prune back what I can when I see it. I'm assuming any dead plant matter doesn't help out much?

Fish load is 2 angelfish, 10 ornate tetras, 5 sterbai cory cats, 3 otos, 1 bristlenose pleco. I feed every other day at night.

No, the substrate does not get stirred up either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by @marko@ View Post
bba comes from CO2 problems, yes. but whether it can be a sign of CO2 flux, or overall insufficiency, i cant say; probably both induce it equally well.
light drive CO2 need. the more light you have, the more CO2 you need. its a balancing act.
i do not use a drop checker. used to, but then trashed it. i used to keep it green in my ADA 30C, and my CO2 was not high enough (my tank had a ph of 6.7 at that time). then i turned up the CO2 til it turned yellow and my tank had a ph of 6.2 (i keep mentioning ph cuz i keep my CO2 on a ph controller, and can indicate how much more im putting relative to the previous value). but i still had some CO2 problems, including BBA. a while later, i removed the drop checker and started paying attention to my plants instead to see what they say.
got the tank to this (with a ph of 5.4):


the drop checker was giving me a false answer. its not the best tool in the world.
but look at the other part of the picture. that tank used to have BBA problems, and it was saved.
good CO2, flow, and nutrients to encourage plant vigor and halt BBA growth, and some occasional excel to kill what BBA was still there was all it took. simple, but only in retrospect.
I've heard that the drop checker really isn't that accurate, it just gives you a rough idea.

Now, lets say I do have low CO2 in the tank, how would I be able to tell from my plants that I have low CO2? That's the part that I'm stumped on. Watch the plants, I understand, but what am I looking for exactly? I'm assuming better and more luscious growth, right?

I've already pushed my CO2 to where my fish were gasping for air, so I turned it down a little bit and have left it there since.
__________________
The Fraternity of Dirt #42
Who would have thought that plants like dirt?!

Tanks: 60G | 5.5G | Evolve4
shinycard255 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 01:39 AM   #37
Dave-H
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (8/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Denver, CO & Phang-Nga, Thailand
Posts: 2,387
Default

Looking at this thread and all the dogmatic answers makes me SO glad I quit CO2 and went back to low-tech. I'm sure that there is some good information here, but my tank is finally algae free, lush, and green and I am pretty happy!

still trying to sell my CO2 setup, though!
__________________

"The fewer our wants, the nearer we resemble the gods." Socrates

Dave-H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 02:05 AM   #38
shinycard255
Wannabe Guru
 
shinycard255's Avatar
 
PTrader: (18/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Plainfield, IL
Posts: 1,638
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave-H View Post
Looking at this thread and all the dogmatic answers makes me SO glad I quit CO2 and went back to low-tech. I'm sure that there is some good information here, but my tank is finally algae free, lush, and green and I am pretty happy!

still trying to sell my CO2 setup, though!
Trust me, if I can't figure out this issue within the next few months, I'm going to be pulling the plug myself. And if I were to try it again at some point, it would probably be on a nano
__________________
The Fraternity of Dirt #42
Who would have thought that plants like dirt?!

Tanks: 60G | 5.5G | Evolve4
shinycard255 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 03:17 AM   #39
@marko@
Planted Tank Guru
 
@marko@'s Avatar
 
PTrader: (57/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: livingston, nj
Posts: 5,679
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shinycard255 View Post
I updated my previous post with a pic of the tank.

I'll get my hands on some carbon and toss those in a for a few weeks and see if it helps.

I do try to prune back what I can when I see it. I'm assuming any dead plant matter doesn't help out much?

Fish load is 2 angelfish, 10 ornate tetras, 5 sterbai cory cats, 3 otos, 1 bristlenose pleco. I feed every other day at night.

No, the substrate does not get stirred up either.



I've heard that the drop checker really isn't that accurate, it just gives you a rough idea.

Now, lets say I do have low CO2 in the tank, how would I be able to tell from my plants that I have low CO2? That's the part that I'm stumped on. Watch the plants, I understand, but what am I looking for exactly? I'm assuming better and more luscious growth, right?

I've already pushed my CO2 to where my fish were gasping for air, so I turned it down a little bit and have left it there since.
pearling is one of the things i look for.
but not every plant will pearl significantly.
the best thing is the growth, but that takes time to see a difference, and its not always easy to notice. if you have any red plants, they get less red if CO2 gets worse (all other things being equal).

since your CO2 is high (if your fish are gasping), then perhaps its a distribution problem. any low-flow spots in the tank?
__________________
@marko@ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 04:36 AM   #40
plantbrain
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (257/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,454
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shinycard255 View Post
I've heard that the drop checker really isn't that accurate, it just gives you a rough idea.

Now, lets say I do have low CO2 in the tank, how would I be able to tell from my plants that I have low CO2? That's the part that I'm stumped on. Watch the plants, I understand, but what am I looking for exactly? I'm assuming better and more luscious growth, right?

I've already pushed my CO2 to where my fish were gasping for air, so I turned it down a little bit and have left it there since.
I've been down the same road as most everyone that's complained about BBA.
Amano has also, he said he suffered for 10 years with BBA. I suffered for about 3 years.

The crux is the plant growth. But if you are new, you lack the experience to know what to look for. So you sort of are screwed either way.

But......you got to start somewhere.

So the pH meter and KH method is a decent place to start I think.
pH meters are not cheap, decent liquid test kits are though.
Good KH test kits might run 7-20$.

Test often when dialing things in. Then slowly and progressively adjust more and more CO2. This must be done slowly.

Pay careful note to the plants, ignore the algae EXCEPT for NEW algae growth.
__________________
Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 11:34 AM   #41
houseofcards
Planted Tank Guru
 
houseofcards's Avatar
 
PTrader: (55/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,612
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by @marko@ View Post
shouldve read the next line. light drives CO2 need. low light tanks need less CO2, if you have low enough light, ambient CO2 is enough and you dont need to supplement it.
that said, dissolved organics do tend to help most algae out; and good maintenance never hurt an aquarium.
I did read your next line and it was too general a response, you added to your original line that you stated in your original post. If you would have stated that I probably wouldn't have said anything.
houseofcards is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 11:38 AM   #42
houseofcards
Planted Tank Guru
 
houseofcards's Avatar
 
PTrader: (55/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,612
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave-H View Post
Looking at this thread and all the dogmatic answers makes me SO glad I quit CO2 and went back to low-tech. I'm sure that there is some good information here, but my tank is finally algae free, lush, and green and I am pretty happy!

still trying to sell my CO2 setup, though!
That's fine and you could certainly have a very nice setup without co2, bu once you go that route you are limited in what you can grow and many times how well they grow compared to co2-enriched plants.

Sometimes it's a lifestyle choice and it's simply not worth it.
houseofcards is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 11:58 AM   #43
n00dl3
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (91/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 988
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by @marko@ View Post
pearling is one of the things i look for.
but not every plant will pearl significantly.
the best thing is the growth, but that takes time to see a difference, and its not always easy to notice. if you have any red plants, they get less red if CO2 gets worse (all other things being equal).

since your CO2 is high (if your fish are gasping), then perhaps its a distribution problem. any low-flow spots in the tank?
1+ It takes time, patience, and careful observation. IME, it is always come down to co2 and flow for co2 and nutrients distribution.
n00dl3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 01:20 PM   #44
houseofcards
Planted Tank Guru
 
houseofcards's Avatar
 
PTrader: (55/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,612
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by n00dl3 View Post
1+ It takes time, patience, and careful observation. IME, it is always come down to co2 and flow for co2 and nutrients distribution.
I don't disagree that if you have BBA highlight can make it worse/harder to control, but co2 isn't always the problem. There are plenty of folks here that run co2 until there fish are gassed and they still have BBA. I've seen BBA grow in all tank lit conditions. I've seen BBA growing in an indoor koi pond with no direct light. How 'bout all those dim-lit LFS tanks.
houseofcards is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 02:22 PM   #45
shinycard255
Wannabe Guru
 
shinycard255's Avatar
 
PTrader: (18/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Plainfield, IL
Posts: 1,638
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by @marko@ View Post
pearling is one of the things i look for.
but not every plant will pearl significantly.
the best thing is the growth, but that takes time to see a difference, and its not always easy to notice. if you have any red plants, they get less red if CO2 gets worse (all other things being equal).

since your CO2 is high (if your fish are gasping), then perhaps its a distribution problem. any low-flow spots in the tank?
I hardly every see any pearling in my tank. I've noticed that my Stargrass grows like crazy and the Rotala Indica and Ludwigia Red has started to grow better. Ludwigia Red is mostly red, new stems are green but then changed to red as they get closer to the top of the tank.

I had issues with flow in the bottom left corner of my tank (where BBA was growing on the substrate) and also around the Anubias. I'm hoping that me moving the powerhead to the same side as the filter output will help with flow and distribution of CO2 and nutrients.

Quote:
Originally Posted by plantbrain View Post
I've been down the same road as most everyone that's complained about BBA.
Amano has also, he said he suffered for 10 years with BBA. I suffered for about 3 years.

The crux is the plant growth. But if you are new, you lack the experience to know what to look for. So you sort of are screwed either way.

But......you got to start somewhere.

So the pH meter and KH method is a decent place to start I think.
pH meters are not cheap, decent liquid test kits are though.
Good KH test kits might run 7-20$.

Test often when dialing things in. Then slowly and progressively adjust more and more CO2. This must be done slowly.

Pay careful note to the plants, ignore the algae EXCEPT for NEW algae growth.
You mentioned PH and KH method, would you mind explaining this? I've never heard of this. I have both PH and KH tests

I will start watching the plants more carefully to see if I see any changes (hopefully for the better) and only look for new algae growth and battle that instead of old algae

Also, how am I supposed to bring my CO2 up more when I already brought it up to the point of my fish gasping at the top for air?

Quote:
Originally Posted by n00dl3 View Post
1+ It takes time, patience, and careful observation. IME, it is always come down to co2 and flow for co2 and nutrients distribution.
I did just move my powerhead so I'm going to see how the plants start to react now. I'm hoping for the better

Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofcards View Post
I don't disagree that if you have BBA highlight can make it worse/harder to control, but co2 isn't always the problem. There are plenty of folks here that run co2 until there fish are gassed and they still have BBA. I've seen BBA grow in all tank lit conditions. I've seen BBA growing in an indoor koi pond with no direct light. How 'bout all those dim-lit LFS tanks.
BBA is one notorious PITA. All my low-med light tanks don't have a BBA issue, only my 60G that has CO2 on it. Some LFS tanks don't get the attention they deserve either, but that's another story
__________________
The Fraternity of Dirt #42
Who would have thought that plants like dirt?!

Tanks: 60G | 5.5G | Evolve4
shinycard255 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Planted Tank LLC 2012