BBA is killing me! Thinking about going low-tech because of it

[dmagerl]

I can empathize with you. I've had my tank for 5 years and have always had BBA. I've read all the threads on BBA, tried all the solutions, been there done that, and still have BBA.

All I can say is be very careful when spot treating BBA with Excel. I usually ended up with dead leaves wherever I spot treated. I used to use Excel diluted 2 to 1 in the syringe and even though the BBA died, the leaves eventually always died too. Its like the Excel killed the leaf weeks later or once infected with BBA, death was inevitable.

[shinycard255]

Yes, proper 4˚KH solution in the DC. Yes, the light was excessive a few months ago, which is why I toned it back some. I'm pruning back most of the leaves and am dipping the equipment in a H2O2/water solution.

Excel overdose is doing 2x the daily amount, correct?

Not sure if I'm willing to try out something experimental. If worst comes to worst, I'm just going low-tech

[Couesfanatic]

BBA is in low tech as well.

[freph]

Originally Posted by shinycard255

Yes, proper 4˚KH solution in the DC. Yes, the light was excessive a few months ago, which is why I toned it back some. I'm pruning back most of the leaves and am dipping the equipment in a H2O2/water solution.

Excel overdose is doing 2x the daily amount, correct?

Not sure if I'm willing to try out something experimental. If worst comes to worst, I'm just going low-tech

Honestly, I wouldn't bother worrying about the drop checker solution. Plant health and livestock will tell you where you need to go with it. Neither of my tanks have them and both have different diffusion methods...however the only algae I get in either of them is the occasional GDA. The tank will tell you what you need to do. Trust it.

[DarkCobra]

Originally Posted by shinycard255

Excel overdose is doing 2x the daily amount, correct?

Yep, or sometimes even 3x if the algae has proven resistant. If there's currently no Excel in the tank, I like to start with an initial one-time 5x dose (5ml/10G), which is actually Seachem's recommended "attack dose" for normal use. Sudden increases are harder for algae to tolerate. I always wondered if that was Seachem's sneaky way of showing people what it could really do, since for legal reasons they can't claim any algicidal properties.

[kevmo911]

Originally Posted by shinycard255

I will sit down and make some time for this as it is 27 pages long. Thanks for the advice, I will check this out

Heh, yeah, I know it's a long read. It's mostly information from people trying different methods.

The gist of it is that 2-3 times the daily (NOT startup) recommended dose of Excel, over several days to 14 days, seems to be fairly effective. The downside of it is that certain fragile plants can be hit pretty hard by it, and so can inverts. Higher and longer doses had the most negative effects, while lower and shorter doses were less vicious.

My experience is that dosing 2X the regular amount, using spot dosing while pumps are all off for 15-30 minutes, works very well on the targeted areas, and fairly well overall. For full-tank treatments without spot dosing, I'd leave the powerheads on but turn off filters for 15-30 minutes. I've also found that in spot dosing, using a syringe with an actual needle end is most effective. It really doesn't take much, so it's easy to spread tiny amounts of glutaraldehyde around with a tiny needle end.

[shinycard255]

So a bit of an update...

I pulled all my equipment out of the tank last week and dipped into a 3:1 (tap:h2o2) solution which killed off most of the BBA. I've started turning over some of my substrate as to cover up the BBA growing on it. I'm most likely going to start spot treating my anubias tonight to get any extra BBA off of it. Powerhead and filter output are both on the same side of the tank now (hoping that will help with flow issues). Changed out the 4dkh solution in my DC. I'm also topping my tank off daily with RO water since it's an open top tank.

kevmo, still reading through the 27pg topic you referred me to

[TropicalCorys]

I'm currently battling it too right now. For my 55 gallon I'm spot treating 5mil of flourish excel and 2-3 hours later 5ml of algaefix (don't over dose... your fish may act a little strange but they will be fine in an hour but this stuff will kill your shrimp). I turn filter off and start spot treatments and turn filter on 5 mins later. works like a charm. BBA turns pink in a few hours and then turns white after a day or two. After that i scrape it off or my cleanup crew has taking care of it. I'm now at the two week mark and barely see it anywhere.

[herns]

Originally Posted by plantbrain

Until you master CO2, BBA will follow you.
Focus on growing plants and watching that.

+1.
Spot treatment of Metricide 14 will help. Excel will drain your wallet.

[shinycard255]

Originally Posted by herns

+1.
Spot treatment of Metricide 14 will help. Excel will drain your wallet.

2 sentence comments without giving any actual advice on how to help doesn't really help out many people... sorry


I've heard Metricide 14 thrown around this forum a few times. I will look into it. Would spot treating with H2O2 also be a viable replacement for Excel?

[plantbrain]

Originally Posted by shinycard255

2 sentence comments without giving any actual advice on how to help doesn't really help out many people... sorry


I've heard Metricide 14 thrown around this forum a few times. I will look into it. Would spot treating with H2O2 also be a viable replacement for Excel?

You read the sentence but did not understand what it said. Those 2 simple comments made all the difference in the world to myself and many others:




Once you understand this, then algae is a minor issue. Many aquarist want a pill to kill the algae, not learn to grow better plants. This hobby is about growing plants, not killing algae. So the focus should be there. Algae is diagnostic, but only as a more problematic plant growth issue.
So either way, the focus is on the plants.

Glutaraldehyde can be used at normal dosing if you spot treat. I do not use it, only as a spray on wood if it gets infested and I know I need to look at CO2 as the root issue.
H2O2 seems to work well if not better and is MUCH cheaper than any source of glutaraldehyde. You can also be hyper aggressive with H2O2 and apply 2-3x a day with a few hours in between.
Always turn water flow off for a minute or two before applying.

Then wait about 5 min, then resume.
You have a CO2 issue if you have BBA on plants, no algae treatment will cure that.

[@marko@]

Originally Posted by plantbrain

You read the sentence but did not understand what it said. Those 2 simple comments made all the difference in the world to myself and many others:




Once you understand this, then algae is a minor issue. Many aquarist want a pill to kill the algae, not learn to grow better plants. This hobby is about growing plants, not killing algae. So the focus should be there. Algae is diagnostic, but only as a more problematic plant growth issue.
So either way, the focus is on the plants.

Glutaraldehyde can be used at normal dosing if you spot treat. I do not use it, only as a spray on wood if it gets infested and I know I need to look at CO2 as the root issue.
H2O2 seems to work well if not better and is MUCH cheaper than any source of glutaraldehyde. You can also be hyper aggressive with H2O2 and apply 2-3x a day with a few hours in between.
Always turn water flow off for a minute or two before applying.

Then wait about 5 min, then resume.
You have a CO2 issue if you have BBA on plants, no algae treatment will cure that.

i am one of those many others.
almost every one of my tanks has gone through a period where BBA is growing in the beginning until i figure out how to balance my lighting and CO2. then it goes away (i usually speed the process up by spot dosing, but that alone will not make it stay away).
make sure you have good CO2, good flow (to distribute the CO2), good fertz, and not too-high lighting.

[shinycard255]

Originally Posted by plantbrain

You read the sentence but did not understand what it said. Those 2 simple comments made all the difference in the world to myself and many others:

Once you understand this, then algae is a minor issue. Many aquarist want a pill to kill the algae, not learn to grow better plants. This hobby is about growing plants, not killing algae. So the focus should be there. Algae is diagnostic, but only as a more problematic plant growth issue.
So either way, the focus is on the plants.

Glutaraldehyde can be used at normal dosing if you spot treat. I do not use it, only as a spray on wood if it gets infested and I know I need to look at CO2 as the root issue.
H2O2 seems to work well if not better and is MUCH cheaper than any source of glutaraldehyde. You can also be hyper aggressive with H2O2 and apply 2-3x a day with a few hours in between.
Always turn water flow off for a minute or two before applying.

Then wait about 5 min, then resume.
You have a CO2 issue if you have BBA on plants, no algae treatment will cure that.

If there were a pill to kill all algae, that would be a miracle, but I don't see that happening. I have quite a few plants that grow like weeds in my tank, while others don't grow as fast

I've only done H2O2 as a tap/h2o2 solution out of the tank in a 5g bucket as a dip, but never as spot treating.

So how can I treat my CO2 issue to get rid of the BBA? My DC is yellow, I changed flow up a bit (it might have been that, but not sure), EI dosing, and have around 50PAR of light at the substrate

Originally Posted by @marko@

i am one of those many others.
almost every one of my tanks has gone through a period where BBA is growing in the beginning until i figure out how to balance my lighting and CO2. then it goes away (i usually speed the process up by spot dosing, but that alone will not make it stay away).
make sure you have good CO2, good flow (to distribute the CO2), good fertz, and not too-high lighting.

This tank has bad BBA in it for the past few months. Balance light and CO2? I thought BBA comes from the fluctuation of CO2 in the water, not the lighting?

(sorry for duplicating my answer, but I said the same thing up above to Tom)
My DC is yellow, I changed flow up a bit (it might have been that, but not sure), EI dosing, and have around 50PAR of light at the substrate

[houseofcards]

Correct CO2 does help in many situations, but let's get real it's not an algeacide. It will only make a big difference if there is enough fast growing plant mass. How many LFS tanks look like the tanks in the pictures that the OP posted. Most of those tanks are lowlight, but have BBA growing everywhere. Poor maintenance and high organic load. Try putting CO2 in those tanks and see if it helps. You need to hit BBA from all ends and don't try to figure it out. You can reduce light duration, keep up with water changes, add carbon/organic waste remover, add plant mass and you eventually see your BBA problems go away. Using excel or glutaraldehyde to rid your tank of BBA is really not a solution IMO.

[shinycard255]

Originally Posted by houseofcards

Correct CO2 does help in many situations, but let's get real it's not an algeacide. It will only make a big difference if there is enough fast growing plant mass. How many LFS tanks look like the tanks in the pictures that the OP posted. Most of those tanks are lowlight, but have BBA growing everywhere. Poor maintenance and high organic load. Try putting CO2 in those tanks and see if it helps. You need to hit BBA from all ends and don't try to figure it out. You can reduce light duration, keep up with water changes, add carbon/organic waste remover, add plant mass and you eventually see your BBA problems go away. Using excel or glutaraldehyde to rid your tank of BBA is really not a solution IMO.

You can reduce light duration
Already did this. I went from 4x 55W T5HOs 18" above the tank to 2x 55W T5HOs 12" above the tank. I believe I also went from 8, down to 7 hours a day

Keep up with water changes
I do this regularly on Sundays with around 60% water changes. I have been doing WCs on Sundays from day 1 (kinda my thing).

Add carbon/organic waste remover
Never thought of doing this, since I've always read you don't want to add carbon to a planted tank due to it taking out the fertilizer, but I've also read that that's a myth as well... so not sure about this one. I could give it a shot for a few weeks and see what happens.

Add plant mass

I've got quite a bit of plants in this tank already. I feel like I don't have much more room in this tank for more

I know that using Excel or H2O2 is only a "cover up" or "quick fix" and I need to find the root cause, but I've been trying to make it disappear for the past several months (as have many others out there)