[DONE] Cladophora Infestation [04/13/2013] Post#35
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:08 AM   #1
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[DONE] Cladophora Infestation [04/13/2013] Post#35


Starting Date: 11/18/2012

Hey got a green hair algae on my dwarf baby tears and its spreading to neighboring plants. this is the second algae infestation that I am dealing with in this tank. The first was grey algae which was started due to my laziness which caused a lot of fish food being dumped in the tank and me thinking I just don't need to feed them for a few weeks. I got rid of the algae by closing the lights for 3 days but that also killed most of my plants.

To get rid of the algae this time I have reduced the light to 2xT5-HO for 3 hours a day. I have mechanically reduced the algae as much as possible without pulling the roots of the plants for most of the plants (really difficult for dwarf baby tears on sand substrate). And also doubled the dosage of the Seachem excel. I added 4 True SAE, 2 Chinese SAE (Not sure), 2 corydoras and a twig catfish. Anyway today I started using Hobby Algen-killer, which is a liquid algaecide (link to their website is here: http://www.dohse-aquaristik.de/en/p/51500/AlgenKiller-). It says to dose 2ml per 100liters per week 2ml per 10liters for heavy algae and to repeat if algae is "stubborn" so if it works I'll let you guys know. I have tried Tetra Algumin which did not work on the grey algae or the green hair algae.

If the algaecide shows no progress I am thinking of using Hobby Duplarit K:"Natural tropical laterite in pellet form for subsequent use in existing aquariums. Iron-active soil additive for all aquarium plants. Enhances growth and appearance and prevents deficiency symptoms" and Hobby Sanoplant: "CO2 fertilizer tablets for strong and healthy plant growth. Ideal and inexpensive carbon dioxide fertilization. Basic fertilization with all necessary nutrients", to help kill the algae.

UPDATE1 [11/19/2012]:
After realizing that I misread the instruction for the algae killer, which I have corrected above to the correct dosage for heavy algae which I will not be using as a noticeable reduction in algae has been noticed, so I will be using the normal dosage conditions of 1ml per 10 liters.

Update2 [11/24/2012]: The first day I got the SAE they were awesome half of the algae was gone but after that they don't seem to be eating the hair algae. Some are becoming lazy while some are looking for food at the sand area but are not going anywhere near the hair algae. (Discussing Problem here.)

Update3 [11/28/2012]: 1 True SAE is died probably from algaecide and another missing and its been a week since algaecide has been added and no reduction noticed. 3 days ago I added nutrients and CO2 fertilizer to boost plant growth and ended up giving the hair algae a boost. :sad
I removed a driftwood that had hair algae growing on it and placed it inside a drawer. I placed more plants in the tank.

Update4 [12/05/2012]: 2 weeks have passed and I gave up on the algaecide after 10 days and used neutralizer to remove the copper so I can add 6 Fire Red Shrimp. I currently using Seachem Phosoguard and am going to do a weekly 30% water change and hope for the best.

Tank originally:http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/pH...5-11-2012b.jpg

Tank Currently:http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/pH...8-11-2012c.jpg

Update5 [12/25/2012]: I have removed the algae mechanically once again and did a 30-40% water change two-three times since the last update. I have reduced the weekly fertilization to half and noticed the algae has a slower growth. I've used the Algencide once again but then I went and used "Ocean Free Pure liquid" which according to the box might remove the effect of the algencide. Place a pic of what "Pure Liquid" does.

Update6 [12/26/2012]: Removed some algae mechanically and did a 10% water change and poured another batch of algaecide.

---Specs--- (A copy of a reply I wrote)
My tank is bow front tank about 120 liters.
-Odyssea light fixture with a built in timer has four 39W T5HO lights 3 at 6500K and one at 8000K. Ones all four at nine and turns of at seven.
-Tetra EX700 Canister Filter with the correct dosage of Seachem phosoguard in it.
-Tetra 100 (for 100 liters) air pump opened to half capacity.
-Tetra Co2 Optimat, uses a thin membrane to diffuse the Co2 into the water.
-Tetra Complete Substrate with sand gravel over it.

When I was starting I didn't have the Odyssea light fixture, but I had the aquarium built in hood which has 2 25W T8 "Daylight" lamps. And I added Tetra "Initial Sticks" plant supplement tabs. Most of the Tetra supplements I bought had no english instructions so I guessed the dosage from what the instruction said instead of translating the instructions to english, but the algae didn't appear until I found some dwarf baby tears and want to to provide enough plant supplement that accidentally dropped too many Tetra plant supplements tried to push them into the substrate but some resurfaced out of the substrate and thats when the algae first appeared. A few weeks ago I checked the substrate but the tabs dissolved.

As you can see I used only Tetra at the beginning until I noticed lack alot of info on their products and sites compared to Seachem.

--Current dosage--
I currently dose half a cap of Seachem Excel and one or none of the tetra Co2, that's after checking with a co2 indicator. I stopped using Seachem Flourish, only a few drops over unaffected plants. Which might be the reason why the algae has barely grown in the past week.

I placed once (2-3 weeks ago) 2 Dulparit K (placed 1cm under substrate) which is meant to enhance plant roots. The areas where I placed it had a strong algae growth.

Use 1 sanoplant on infected area. Sanoplant, 1 tab for each 50 liter, it provides fertilizing with Co2, general fertilizer containing all nutrient salts and fertilizing with trace elements and iron.

I will not use "pure liquid" until 2 weeks from as a second chance for the algenkiller.

Update7 [01/05/2013]: There has been no growth found on the algae. Since the last update no Seachem flourish but Co2 tabs with trace elements, indicated dosage of seachem excel and half the dosage of tetra Co2. what suprised me is that I found that some of my fire red shrimp alive. After their complete disappearance and someone informing me that guppies eat shrimp and poured algaecide on the 25th of December (Update 5).

Let me know what you think.
Here are the Pics.
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Last edited by sub-80; 04-13-2013 at 06:38 PM.. Reason: Last post and changing title
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:43 PM   #2
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Default Algae

Hey Sub-80. Do you have Co2 in your tank? I would not recommend using any algae killers. Usually algae flourish when the conditions are not optimum for plant growth. Fish may help you, especially SAE, which is pretty good, but if the tank have an excess of nutrients that plants cannot take, then you will get algae.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:02 PM   #3
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Looks more like clado... how branchy is it? Does it smell awful?
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:20 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatGuyWithTheFish View Post
Looks more like clado... how branchy is it? Does it smell awful?
No there is no bad smell. At first I mistook it for staghorn algae but after a bit more research I believe it Green hair algae, it sure feels like wet hair when you touch it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaquetaRiver View Post
Hey Sub-80. Do you have Co2 in your tank? I would not recommend using any algae killers. Usually algae flourish when the conditions are not optimum for plant growth. Fish may help you, especially SAE, which is pretty good, but if the tank have an excess of nutrients that plants cannot take, then you will get algae.
I have a Tetra CO2 package which I stopped using after buying the Seachem Excel. I also have Hobby Sanoplant which are tablets placed under plants, it releases Co2 fertilizer. I am planning on using it after the algae disappears. For the algae killer it states that it will not harm the plants and fish as long as as the dosage is correct. I get that algae is due to excess light or nutrients but to give the baby tears covered a chance I need most of the algae to die, also algae is showing in filter tubing.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:08 PM   #5
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that green stringy algae is the bane of my existance. the only thing I have seen work in my tanks is be really good about keeping my DIY co2 pumping and dosing glut/excel. right now my light is too high (working on a way to elevate it) so I fight a constant battle.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:11 AM   #6
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Had a talk with a staff of Hobby Algen-Killer and they informed me that Algen Killer is meant to reduce and protect from algae, he recommended that I do 30% water change and to add fast growing plants, which is the most effective method to remove algae. I do have fast growing plants at the back which is a reason why I don't have algae in the back.
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:44 PM   #7
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[QUOTE=sub-80;2083330]No there is no bad smell. At first I mistook it for staghorn algae but after a bit more research I believe it Green hair algae, it sure feels like wet hair when you touch it.
QUOTE]

The only way to know if it's hair algae is to fashion a mustache from it then go out in public wearing said mustache.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:53 PM   #8
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[QUOTE=james1542;2084758]
Quote:
Originally Posted by sub-80 View Post
No there is no bad smell. At first I mistook it for staghorn algae but after a bit more research I believe it Green hair algae, it sure feels like wet hair when you touch it.
QUOTE]

The only way to know if it's hair algae is to fashion a mustache from it then go out in public wearing said mustache.
LOL

Not a bad business proposal, hair algae facial hair probably more hygienic than having other people hair on your face or head.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:30 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by james1542 View Post
The only way to know if it's hair algae is to fashion a mustache from it then go out in public wearing said mustache.
Ha! Caugh me off guard there!
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Old 12-26-2012, 05:59 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatGuyWithTheFish View Post
Looks more like clado... how branchy is it? Does it smell awful?
You might be right about it being Cladophra. The tank doesn't smell to well and it really stuck on the plants. If it is clado how can I get rid of it, with out using the bleach treatment.
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:12 PM   #11
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Is this similar to what you are dealing with?
I have had marine tanks and fresh water for many years but never had algae like this before. Usually just on the glass, scrape it off and have a nice day.
I dont want to have this stuff floating around if i remove it improperly.
I opened the lid on my tank and it tried to pull me into the water!
What is the best way to get rid of this?
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Old 12-26-2012, 02:14 PM   #12
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Is this similar to what you are dealing with?
I have had marine tanks and fresh water for many years but never had algae like this before. Usually just on the glass, scrape it off and have a nice day.
I dont want to have this stuff floating around if i remove it improperly.
I opened the lid on my tank and it tried to pull me into the water!
What is the best way to get rid of this?
I haven't solved my problem yet. I really can't see the algae that well in your
pic. But it does look similar to it. Every website and every person I spoke with told me this remove most of it mechanically and do a 30% water change, weekly. There is a source for the algae either excess fertilizer or hidden dead fish. I know reducing light for to 3 hours a day did nothing. I was advised by the current Hobby customer service is to place fast growing plants at the area of the algae.

If you have a water test that can give accurate values, you could probably identify the source of the algae and dose to correct the ratio of nutrient. I am trying to get the a test kit to test the aquarium waters, going to get Seneye Reef.
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Old 12-26-2012, 02:57 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by sub-80 View Post
I haven't solved my problem yet. I really can't see the algae that well in your
pic. But it does look similar to it. Every website and every person I spoke with told me this remove most of it mechanically and do a 30% water change, weekly. There is a source for the algae either excess fertilizer or hidden dead fish. I know reducing light for to 3 hours a day did nothing. I was advised by the current Hobby customer service is to place fast growing plants at the area of the algae.

If you have a water test that can give accurate values, you could probably identify the source of the algae and dose to correct the ratio of nutrient. I am trying to get the a test kit to test the aquarium waters, going to get Seneye Reef.
My algae is attached to the top of the tank and is dangling down from the glass. You can see it better if you click on the photo i think.
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:46 PM   #14
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AlgenKiller contains copper sulfate and monolinuron.

Copper sulfate is not a very effective algaecide, at least until you get into such high doses that other flora/fauna are at risk.

Monolinuron is an herbicide in the phenylurea family. It works by inhibiting photosynthesis, in some plants more strongly than others. In short, it's a chemical blackout. Once bound to the plant, its effects can last for weeks, even if the chemical is removed through water changes. Better off avoided in any planted tank.

Your algae looks more like hair algae to me, although I'm not 100% sure. If it's hair, growth can be stopped or slowed with reduced light, reduced phosphate (if there's a *huge* excess), and overall good conditions. Existing algae can be removed mechanically, and/or killed in-place with H2O2 or Excel spot treatments.

If it's Cladophora, then it becomes far more difficult. No improvement in tank conditions will stop or slow it, as it thrives in what would be considered a perfect planted tank. It's also resistant to H2O2 and Excel to the point where spot treatments are barely effective, and can survive long blackouts. Mechanical removal still works, but unlike hair algae, it can't be yanked out from a plant 100% intact; and may spread fragments that can pop up elsewhere.

In this case, the only acceptable option I've found is treating the algae outside the tank. Remove all affected plants to a bucket with water. Disturb the algae as little as possible to avoid spreading fragments. If this means digging up a chunk of substrate, do it.

Now you can treat with a stronger dose of chemical in the bucket. Though given clado's resistance, it can still be hard to dose with enough H2O, Excel, bleach, etc. to ensure killing it without significantly damaging the plant. So I use AlgaeFix instead. It's a very effective algae killer. The active ingredient changes the surface tension of water, affecting water and gas exchange across fine structures (like algae) until the cells rupture. Three days in the bucket with the normal dose works great on algae, including clado, with no effect on plants that I've noticed. Rinse well and return to the tank. The algae may not initially appear dead, but it will dissolve over a few days.

You may be tempted to use AlgaeFix directly in your tank, and some do. But be aware it's a gamble. It's particularly lethal to invertebrates. And can sometimes kill fish too. Fish gills are *also* fine structures, directly involved in water and gas exchange; and changing the surface tension of water certainly affects them! Many times there will be no bad effects, but other times you may lose multiple fish, with symptoms of severe respiratory distress. Should you try this, if you see even the slightest hint of these symptoms, remove the chemical through multiple large water changes *immediately*. I've also done some experiments to satisfy my own curiosity that suggest fish can adapt better if the chemical is introduced gradually, divided in 1/4 doses over 24 hours, instead of dosed all at once. Though I guarantee nothing, and generally recommend AlgaeFix for use outside the tank only.
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Old 12-26-2012, 04:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stardm View Post
My algae is attached to the top of the tank and is dangling down from the glass. You can see it better if you click on the photo i think.
Then I suggest doing a precise mechanical removal as if you let it go it'll really get worse as you can see in my pic the algae are appearing from the roots of the plant. So get to it make sure you have removed every bit you can then do a water change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkCobra View Post
AlgenKiller contains copper sulfate and monolinuron.

Copper sulfate is not a very effective algaecide, at least until you get into such high doses that other flora/fauna are at risk.

Monolinuron is an herbicide in the phenylurea family. It works by inhibiting photosynthesis, in some plants more strongly than others. In short, it's a chemical blackout. Once bound to the plant, its effects can last for weeks, even if the chemical is removed through water changes. Better off avoided in any planted tank.

Your algae looks more like hair algae to me, although I'm not 100% sure. If it's hair, growth can be stopped or slowed with reduced light, reduced phosphate (if there's a *huge* excess), and overall good conditions. Existing algae can be removed mechanically, and/or killed in-place with H2O2 or Excel spot treatments.

If it's Cladophora, then it becomes far more difficult. No improvement in tank conditions will stop or slow it, as it thrives in what would be considered a perfect planted tank. It's also resistant to H2O2 and Excel to the point where spot treatments are barely effective, and can survive long blackouts. Mechanical removal still works, but unlike hair algae, it can't be yanked out from a plant 100% intact; and may spread fragments that can pop up elsewhere.

In this case, the only acceptable option I've found is treating the algae outside the tank. Remove all affected plants to a bucket with water. Disturb the algae as little as possible to avoid spreading fragments. If this means digging up a chunk of substrate, do it.

Now you can treat with a stronger dose of chemical in the bucket. Though given clado's resistance, it can still be hard to dose with enough H2O, Excel, bleach, etc. to ensure killing it without significantly damaging the plant. So I use AlgaeFix instead. It's a very effective algae killer. The active ingredient changes the surface tension of water, affecting water and gas exchange across fine structures (like algae) until the cells rupture. Three days in the bucket with the normal dose works great on algae, including clado, with no effect on plants that I've noticed. Rinse well and return to the tank. The algae may not initially appear dead, but it will dissolve over a few days.

You may be tempted to use AlgaeFix directly in your tank, and some do. But be aware it's a gamble. It's particularly lethal to invertebrates. And can sometimes kill fish too. Fish gills are *also* fine structures, directly involved in water and gas exchange; and changing the surface tension of water certainly affects them! Many times there will be no bad effects, but other times you may lose multiple fish, with symptoms of severe respiratory distress. Should you try this, if you see even the slightest hint of these symptoms, remove the chemical through multiple large water changes *immediately*. I've also done some experiments to satisfy my own curiosity that suggest fish can adapt better if the chemical is introduced gradually, divided in 1/4 doses over 24 hours, instead of dosed all at once. Though I guarantee nothing, and generally recommend AlgaeFix for use outside the tank only.
I dosed the algenkiller a few minutes ago making it twice in one week. But now reading what you wrote makes sense that the fast growing plants in my tank, plants that would take a week to reach the top of my tank have barely grown.

I have not tried the excel spot treatment but i have dosed twice, thrice or quadruple the usual dosage (at times of frustration). I have reduced the light and have not noticed any changes and am using Seachem Phosoguard. To test my waters and to fix the nutrient ratio I've ordered Seachem Nitrogen, Potassium, Phosphate and Iron, but have to wait a few weeks after Christmas.

If it is Clado and I am to remove all plants and substrate that means I'll have to remove half of the substrate.

Algenfix sounds great, I'll try to get it.
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