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Old 11-27-2012, 12:56 AM   #16
Petrus
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The thing to keep in mind is that eco complete, as well as other clay substrate products, are made from natural raw materials mined from the ground which can certainly experience batch-to-batch variations. While the majority may have quite consistent composition, there will be some batches which may contain impurities like carbonates or other substances. It is just simply too costly to QC the materials on that scale. They may take and analyze once every couple tons, but within that batch may also contain slight variations on a smaller scale as well.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:30 AM   #17
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Makes perfect sense Petrus.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:15 PM   #18
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Not being a man made material I think the mined mineral composition can vary, that, added to whatever else is in the packaging soup it's shipped in. That said,, anything with a high CEC can be charged and if it's used in a water system of less mineral content the mineral salts and carbonate buffers leach until equilibrium is reached. Once the stored charge of mineral ions has been depleted the remaining rock is inert.
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Makes perfect sense Petrus.
haha! yes it does.

(now I'm looking for your posts to see what the pic will be next LOL)
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Old 11-27-2012, 03:57 PM   #19
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I've been using EC for a few years now and never seen a rise in my parameters. Tap water is a 7.6 and tank water is a 7.2. Could there be any calcium content in your hardscape that the EC absorbed?
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:12 PM   #20
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I've been using EC for a few years now and never seen a rise in my parameters. Tap water is a 7.6 and tank water is a 7.2. Could there be any calcium content in your hardscape that the EC absorbed?

thats what i was going to ask. there are hundreds of other possible causes for the rise. myself personally i have never had a problem. i've had it running in 3 of my tanks (29g,20l, 10g) and never saw any changes.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:30 PM   #21
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Im wondering if people with soft tapwater are the only ones noticing a change. If you have hard water, you might not be able to see a difference. If I remember correctly, the scales for ph is logarithmic maybe, for KH as well.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:43 PM   #22
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LMAO! it's a mined material not manufactured, so to have the mineral composition drift slightly from bag to bag shouldn't be so hard to believe. As I originally posted my experience was only a shift of 2dKH and the effect only lasted through a couple water changes. RO water and substrate only in the tank in question overnight before testing. The only reason the tank was flooded is that the stand is installed on thick carpet. I wanted the crush weight to settle into the padding for the final level adjustment.
I know the KH/pH shift was from the EC and nothing else.
Not concerned or bothered by it either,,, it was temporary.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:51 PM   #23
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When I initially installed Safety Sorb, it did the opposite, lowered KH. Unfortunately, that was temporary as well. I would imagine any clay substrates parameters would eventually equate with the parameters of water being used.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:09 PM   #24
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Thank you for you suggestions everyone, but I do know it was from the substrate. I have had a tank for 2+ years and my pH has always been lower than neutral. For a bit I concidered raising it and learned of all the possibilities to do so.

For this tank, I decided to keep my pH right where it was at, or allow it to go a bit lower by adding driftwood.

The only thing that changed once the EC was in the tank was a huge piece of Mopani dw added after the last bag of EC was added. I can tell you this too. I am anal about checking my water parameters and do so daily. There was a noticable pH climb every time I added another bag. I did not do all the bags at once for the sake of avoiding a mini-cycle due to changing of substrates. Lucky that I did it this way so my fish could adjust. Thank goodness there is a 12 lb piece of Mopani in the tank as well as some Manzanita and a few other small peices of Mopani in the tank otherwise my Angelfish would be suffereing due to the EC.

Since posting this, I have not noticed any drop at all in pH or KH. I have added plants and some inert lake rocks to the tank. Everything is stable, and that is what matters now. Although, I do hope to see a slow drop at least to pH 6.8. I also have Kuhli Loach in the tank which will fair better below neutral. They are fine for now, but it's the long term effects that concern me.

Anyway! Thanks all of you for trying to help figure out this controversal issue. I appreciate everyones input.

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Old 11-27-2012, 07:29 PM   #25
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I wish my tap came out below neutral....
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:02 PM   #26
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This thread reminded me of something that happened believe it or not 2005 with EC. I actually had a bad batch and couldn't figure out my phosphate levels.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=17212

Phosphate levels were in the stratosphere when Calcium Carbonate got into the EC which created all kinds of issues with hardness, etc.
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:32 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hbosman View Post
Im wondering if people with soft tapwater are the only ones noticing a change. If you have hard water, you might not be able to see a difference. If I remember correctly, the scales for ph is logarithmic maybe, for KH as well.
That is an interesting theory...you might be on to something.
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:48 PM   #28
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haha! yes it does.

(now I'm looking for your posts to see what the pic will be next LOL)
I can't find my dober albums Hope I didn't loose them!
Anyway, here is the one pic I could find.


I know it's far off topic...but at least he's the same color as the EC! I will start a new thread just for "dog" fun
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Old 05-11-2013, 10:30 AM   #29
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Just an update on my eco situation. I bought 20 20lb bags of this for my 300 gallon plan planted tank and it has been hell. My tap comes out at 7.0 and is extremely hard, dKH 6 and GH about 300. After having things up and running for a couple weeks and started cycling my ph went to 8.3 and stayed there. I have done massive water changes over the last 3 weeks and still its at 8.3. I have run multiple tests on water in and outsude the tank, I have removed a large piece of driftwood that was in an African tank for 3 months becuase I thought it my be leeching. Nothing left but the substrate. I am now 6 weeks in and no sign if this letting up. I am now planted with injected co2 (whole other issue with co2 on a large tank) and I bring the ph down to 7.3 during the day and it shoots back up to 8.3 at night. Small amounts of fish I do have dont seem to mind and apparently this is fairly normal in a co2 injected tank.
I do daily 10% water changes and still no sign of this settling down. I will not add more fish, planning on a large Discus group,intil this gets sorted out
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altering water chemistry, eco-complete planted, raising kh, raising ph

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