African Clawed Frog Planted...

[ony]

Originally Posted by Imi Statue

Why are you going there? It has nothing to do with "Ethics"! You people would love to put more cost and larger quarters for the frog when it just isn't necessary. Frogs don't have the same requirements as Humans or Fish. They do not need as much room period.

The Frog will be just as happy in 6.6 gallons as 10! I've seen Pac-Man frogs live in their entire life and grow to 8" across in a standard 5 gallon bucket.

Imi

How do you know when a frog or any other small animal is happy? Since they can't tell us I think the best way to go about things is to keep them as healthy as possible and give them enough space to exhibit natural behaviours. To provide less than that is putting your own desires before the needs of the animal.

[PaulG]

Originally Posted by fplata

It has nothing to do with cost, I bet that pac man frog living in a bucket was very happy. Come on man! You people? What does that mean? Do what ever you want to do with your pets. However, expect opinions, and people disagreeing with you when post your opinion. Nothing you have said about frogs is a fact period. You people!!

Imi is actually Ann Romney.

[dougolasjr]

I have the petco 6.6 bookshelf tank. I personally can't image a 5 inch frog living in it. Once you add the gravel and deco your probably looking at about 5-6 gallons and about 7-8 inches of height. You could always go with African dwarf frogs which would do much better in a short long tank.

[DaBears]

Originally Posted by dougolasjr

I have the petco 6.6 bookshelf tank. I personally can't image a 5 inch frog living in it. Once you add the gravel and deco your probably looking at about 5-6 gallons and about 7-8 inches of height. You could always go with African dwarf frogs which would do much better in a short long tank.

I already have the frog and since he's a male he's gonna max out around 3". I've had him for 2 yrs in a 5 gallon. He seems perfectly healthy, just time for an upgrade. For the record, the 6.6 would be nearly twice as long as the tank he's currently living in.

[Imi Statue]

Originally Posted by PaulG

Imi is actually Ann Romney.

Bee careful what you name people on the forums. They might take offense to it an actually get you kicked off...

Your apology is accepted.

[DaBears]

Originally Posted by Imi Statue

Bee careful what you name people on the forums. They might take offense to it an actually get you kicked off...

Your apology is accepted.

I'd take it as a compliment, personally.

[dougolasjr]

I say go for it then, and we will wait for the Tank Journal.

[fplata]

Originally Posted by DaBears

I'd take it as a compliment, personally.

Absolutely, I find it funny. Oh my! you might get reported. Lets talk about frogs, I bet they don't get offended when you make the live out of a bucket.

[Michael M]

It is downright cruel to keep an African Clawed Frog in 6.6 gallons and completely ridiculous to keep them in a 5 gallon tank. If you keep an ACF in such small aquariums, you're doing it wrong and your frog will not live a normal healthy life. These frogs can live up to 15 years or more and I highly doubt you'll see a lifespan even close to that in such an inadequate tank.

These frogs should be kept in a bare minimum of 10 gallons and I think that is even somewhat cruel. The best tank for a single frog is a 20 gallon long. Adding snails will make the situation even worse.

An ACF -can- tolerate poor water conditions (which does not mean they SHOULD be kept in bad conditions, eventually they will succumb to poor conditions and will suffer..) but a snail cannot. A dead snail rots quickly and fouls the water and will kill the frog.

The only acceptable snail to keep with an ACF is an Apple/Mystery snail and these snails ALSO create a lot of waste and WILL die in poor water conditions. Both ACF and snails are -huge- waste creators, ACF poop like goldfish on steroids, would you put a goldfish in a 6.6 gallon aquarium???

Your frog will also want to swim, he can't swim much in a tank of that size, even if it is a 3 inch male there is not enough space for the frog. You'll also need to lower the water level in a 6.6 so the frog can breath and for plants you'll need add substrate.. your 6.6 gallon is now ~3 gallons.

I keep 3 ACF in a 40 gallon breeder and I assure you they need that space and they are very active swimmers. I couldn't imagine keeping them in anything less..

Think about it this way.. would you keep a German Sheppard in a 2'x2' room full of smoke and it's own feces 24/7? Do you think it would have a long healthy life?

Animals like ACF can't convey the stress you put on them, they have no way of telling you that their health is slowly fading, they may cope for a while but eventually dropsy, red leg, fungus, ammonia burns, ect will occur and the frog will die.. and that will happen I assure you.

Last but not least these frogs are sensitive to fertilizers, so adding them to an aquarium with an ACF which is already in woefully poor conditions will simply exasperate an already really really bad situation.

So if you want an ACF then do it right or don't bother, same goes with any other animal you wish to keep, period.

*ADF (African Dwarf Frogs) would be perfectly fine in a 6.6 gallon, if you want aquatic frogs that's your best option.

[Steveboos]

^^^^Great Post and Great information. I really do think we as hobbyists should start to revert to nature at all costs. Get the largest aquarium you can fit/afford and use that, no one EVER said bigger is worse...

[fplata]

^^
^^
100% agree with both of you

[Michael M]

Originally Posted by Imi Statue

Why are you going there? It has nothing to do with "Ethics"! You people would love to put more cost and larger quarters for the frog when it just isn't necessary. Frogs don't have the same requirements as Humans or Fish. They do not need as much room period.

The Frog will be just as happy in 6.6 gallons as 10! I've seen Pac-Man frogs live in their entire life and grow to 8" across in a standard 5 gallon bucket.

Imi

Xenopus Laevis (Clawed Frogs) are not the same as normal frogs. There is very little about that that is relevant to the way we keep other more terrestrial amphibians. They are both predator and scavengers and very active swimmers. Yes a pac man frog does not need much space and they lie dormant for long periods of a time but comparing a pac man frog to an african clawed frog is retarded, they are nothing alike and their husbandry is COMPLETELY different.

These are fully aquatic frogs and their husbandry is much more akin to fish than it is to a pac man frog. Xenopus are very active swimmers and produce a LOT of waste. Why would you keep a frog in 5 gallons of water when it produces more waste than a goldfish? I think we would both agree that a goldfish would suffer and die in a 5 gallon tank... right?

You say your frog lived "quite a long time", did it live for over 10 years? Because these frogs have been known to live over 20 years if kept correctly.

I see a lot of posts on ACF forums about health issues like dropsy, bloat, red leg, fungus, burns, and I assure you that 99% of the time these problems stem from improper conditions people keep their frog in. Poor conditions stem from keeping these frogs in unfiltered and small aquariums. These are very hardy and long lived animals but every animal has a breaking point and keeping ACF in such small aquariums are a recipe for disaster. If you care about your animals, you should learn how to properly care for them.

To the OP. Get a 20 gallon long tank, a HOB filter rated for 40 gallons or more (whispers work OK), skip the heater (these frogs thrive at 68-72F which is room temperature), and keep a lid with no gaps on it so the frog does not escape.

If you want plants stick with floating plants like water sprite, amazon frogbit, wistera is also another good one. These frogs really like floating plants, you can get a little driftwood cave since these frogs like having a place to retreat to since they're skittish. Anubias and Java Fern works fine too, these can be attached to driftwood.

Overall these are not very demanding animals and with these few things your frog will be very happy and live a long time.

What I've suggested should be about the same price as your 'nano' tank and your frog will be much happier and you can enjoy your pet for years and years rather than watching it suffer and die after a year tops....

I have a very nice low-tech 'planted' ACF 40 gallon breeder tank and I will gladly show you some pictures if you want some good suggestions.

[FriendsNotFood]

I have to somewhat agree with everyone here... I had an ACF for 17 years (I miss him!). He never lived in anything smaller than a 10 and spent the last 5 or so years of his life in a 15. 15 gallons with a strong filter was just about perfect.

I also have a Petco bookshelf tank and it's just about the right size for the betta that lives there, so no, I wouldn't put an adult ACF in there. Even the males grow to be quite a bit bigger than 3 inches. 3 inches is just the body length, not counting legs. They're incredibly active swimmers and swim laps in their tank all day long.

Moreover, your frog is going to uproot pretty much any plant you put in your tank the second he gets startled and tries to find a place to hide.

I'm confused by whoever said you have to lower the water level for these frogs though, especially in a Petco bookshelf tank that's the height of a 2.5 gallon.

[Michael M]

Originally Posted by FriendsNotFood

I have to somewhat agree with everyone here... I had an ACF for 17 years (I miss him!). He never lived in anything smaller than a 10 and spent the last 5 or so years of his life in a 15. 15 gallons with a strong filter was just about perfect.

I also have a Petco bookshelf tank and it's just about the right size for the betta that lives there, so no, I wouldn't put an adult ACF in there. Even the males grow to be quite a bit bigger than 3 inches. 3 inches is just the body length, not counting legs. They're incredibly active swimmers and swim laps in their tank all day long.

Moreover, your frog is going to uproot pretty much any plant you put in your tank the second he gets startled and tries to find a place to hide.

I'm confused by whoever said you have to lower the water level for these frogs though, especially in a Petco bookshelf tank that's the height of a 2.5 gallon.

I may have said that, but for good reason. I feel you should lower the water level by 2 inches from the top so the frog has room to surface for air and you need a lid for these frogs since as you probably know, they are awesome at escaping (mine someone got through a 1/2 inch gap in a glass lid where a whisper filter clip ran under the lid so it wasn't a 'tight' fit.. but luckily I found him!).

I think most people with ACF lower the water ~4 inches or so to reduce escape attempts, they're not uncommon. I keep mine about 2 inches from the top but my glass lid has zero gaps now and so far so good.

I've had good luck with my frogs and plants. It really depends, stuff like dwarf hair grass and ludwiga just didn't work. My moneywort and wisteria stays planted though, I tend to wedge it in between driftwood though and that works out alright for me.

[DaBears]

Originally Posted by Michael M

Xenopus Laevis (Clawed Frogs) are not the same as normal frogs. There is very little about that that is relevant to the way we keep other more terrestrial amphibians. They are both predator and scavengers and very active swimmers. Yes a pac man frog does not need much space and they lie dormant for long periods of a time but comparing a pac man frog to an african clawed frog is retarded, they are nothing alike and their husbandry is COMPLETELY different.

These are fully aquatic frogs and their husbandry is much more akin to fish than it is to a pac man frog. Xenopus are very active swimmers and produce a LOT of waste. Why would you keep a frog in 5 gallons of water when it produces more waste than a goldfish? I think we would both agree that a goldfish would suffer and die in a 5 gallon tank... right?

You say your frog lived "quite a long time", did it live for over 10 years? Because these frogs have been known to live over 20 years if kept correctly.

I see a lot of posts on ACF forums about health issues like dropsy, bloat, red leg, fungus, burns, and I assure you that 99% of the time these problems stem from improper conditions people keep their frog in. Poor conditions stem from keeping these frogs in unfiltered and small aquariums. These are very hardy and long lived animals but every animal has a breaking point and keeping ACF in such small aquariums are a recipe for disaster. If you care about your animals, you should learn how to properly care for them.

To the OP. Get a 20 gallon long tank, a HOB filter rated for 40 gallons or more (whispers work OK), skip the heater (these frogs thrive at 68-72F which is room temperature), and keep a lid with no gaps on it so the frog does not escape.

If you want plants stick with floating plants like water sprite, amazon frogbit, wistera is also another good one. These frogs really like floating plants, you can get a little driftwood cave since these frogs like having a place to retreat to since they're skittish. Anubias and Java Fern works fine too, these can be attached to driftwood.

Overall these are not very demanding animals and with these few things your frog will be very happy and live a long time.

What I've suggested should be about the same price as your 'nano' tank and your frog will be much happier and you can enjoy your pet for years and years rather than watching it suffer and die after a year tops....

I have a very nice low-tech 'planted' ACF 40 gallon breeder tank and I will gladly show you some pictures if you want some good suggestions.

Wow. Tons of new info that I have never heard before. Appreciate it a lot and will definitely reconsider the tank. Some questions...
Do plants do ok without a heater too?
I think u mentioned these frogs being sensitive to ferts...I was not going to do much fertilizing, just some seachem fluorish as directed. Will this be ok?
Is seachem fluorite an ok substrate for ACF?
I would love to see some pics of your set-up!
Thx for all the info!