Hamburger Mattenfilter for a low tech setup - Page 32
Planted Tank Forums
Your Tanks Image Hosting *Tank Tracker * Plant Profiles Fish Profiles Planted Tank Guide Photo Gallery Articles

Go Back   The Planted Tank Forum > General Planted Tank Forums > Low Tech Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-06-2012, 01:14 PM   #466
driftwoodhunter
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (23/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Christiansburg, Va
Posts: 2,756
Default

Razorworm, I can't wait to see - I love seeing and reading about other HMF.
__________________
The Fraternity of Dirt # 7 - Daughter of the Dirt - Canon Club #018
Twin 29g Dirt Tanks on an Iron Stand - DIY 3D Backgrounds
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/ta...stand-pic.html
The Behemoth - 125 dirt tank
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=199772
driftwoodhunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-10-2012, 01:13 AM   #467
driftwoodhunter
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (23/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Christiansburg, Va
Posts: 2,756
Default

Just a quickie update on my tank - I'm loving the HMF so much, I'm getting ready to order more Poret from Swiss Tropicals so I can start setting up a 55g tank.

Things have changed a bit in my tank - yesterday I added a few plants I got in a wonderful RAOK, including some huge crinums. The fish love them! Yesterday the Buenos Aires were swimming through them like possessed maniacs, today the fish have settled down and mostly the Columbians are in it as well as one adventurous Blue Tetra. The Buenos are still in it constantly but they are calmer now. It's interesting to me because they've never shown an interest in that side of the tank before. I planted the crinum close to the filter - combined with the java fern it helps the HMF recede into the background.



Thank you sewingalot for starting this fascinating thread. I had never heard of the HMF before, and it has transformed my tank. I would call my tank very moderately planted - I could easy double or triple my plants and I will as funds allow, but in the meantime the HMF has helped keep my tank pristine. I have 10 Buenos Aires, 18 Columbians, 5 Blue tetras, 5 Black Neons, 4 Harlequins and 1 green cory. I (being so forgetful and lazy) haven't checked my water since August. No water changes, just topping off. I tested my water last week and did a small w/c for good measure while I was topping off. Prior to the top off and w/c, the readings were ammonia = 0, nitrites = 0, and nitrates = 20. Without the HMF, I'm sure I would have had a major problem...now I just have to get with it and be more vigilant! (and yes, I have a ton of snails! I adore them, and I'm trying to get a huge increase for my other tanks, including 4 tanks I'll be setting up this winter - lol)
__________________
The Fraternity of Dirt # 7 - Daughter of the Dirt - Canon Club #018
Twin 29g Dirt Tanks on an Iron Stand - DIY 3D Backgrounds
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/ta...stand-pic.html
The Behemoth - 125 dirt tank
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=199772
driftwoodhunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2012, 11:39 AM   #468
Razorworm
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
Razorworm's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Hawthorn Woods IL
Posts: 676
Default

Hey Driftwood
I am going to a swap tommorow and Stephan Tanner from Swiss Tropicals will have a table there. I am looking forward to meeting him and picking up some more Poret foam and jet lifters for upcomming projects.
Razorworm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2012, 01:26 PM   #469
driftwoodhunter
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (23/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Christiansburg, Va
Posts: 2,756
Default

When I ordered my Poret for the 125, it was the first (and so far, only) time I've talked to him - I had many questions about which pose size, foam thickness, etc. He was so helpful and always responded within minutes (I was emailing him). I was never pressured to buy anything, he was wonderful.
__________________
The Fraternity of Dirt # 7 - Daughter of the Dirt - Canon Club #018
Twin 29g Dirt Tanks on an Iron Stand - DIY 3D Backgrounds
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/ta...stand-pic.html
The Behemoth - 125 dirt tank
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=199772
driftwoodhunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2012, 01:47 PM   #470
DogFish
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (33/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Gone
Posts: 5,988
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorworm View Post
....
I am going to a swap tommorow and Stephan Tanner from Swiss Tropicals will have a table there.....
Is he local (ChicagoLand)? Sure would be nice to have a local pick-up option. I wish I was able to get the the Swap this time. Have fun.
DogFish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2012, 04:34 PM   #471
deeda
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Medina, Ohio
Posts: 952
Default

I'm pretty sure Stephan recently moved to Minnesota from Columbus. He has been known to pop up at various big events in the U.S. and also at local fish clubs as a speaker and always brings Poret with him.

He just updated his website to reflect his new location and where he will be visiting. I've got to go check it out!!!
__________________
Dee
__________________
Eheim Pimpette #270
Eheim Pro II 2028; Classics Series -2215, 2217, 2260, 2262; Pro 2229 Wet/Dry
deeda is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2012, 04:40 PM   #472
jccaclimber
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 753
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deeda View Post
I'm pretty sure Stephan recently moved to Minnesota from Columbus. He has been known to pop up at various big events in the U.S. and also at local fish clubs as a speaker and always brings Poret with him.

He just updated his website to reflect his new location and where he will be visiting. I've got to go check it out!!!
Correct.
__________________
Always curious.
jccaclimber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 12:56 PM   #473
Razorworm
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
Razorworm's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Hawthorn Woods IL
Posts: 676
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogFish View Post
Is he local (ChicagoLand)? Sure would be nice to have a local pick-up option. I wish I was able to get the the Swap this time. Have fun.
pm sent
Razorworm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 04:38 PM   #474
driftwoodhunter
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (23/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Christiansburg, Va
Posts: 2,756
Default

So happy! Took advantage of Petco's holiday sales event and ordered four Koralia Nano 425s for two tanks I'm setting up this winter. Saved a bundle! I have to work a 12hr shift at Walmart staring tonight at 7pm, so I have to get back to bed, lol, but ordering the Poret is next, as soon as he's back from the show/holiday - yea!
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
__________________
The Fraternity of Dirt # 7 - Daughter of the Dirt - Canon Club #018
Twin 29g Dirt Tanks on an Iron Stand - DIY 3D Backgrounds
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/ta...stand-pic.html
The Behemoth - 125 dirt tank
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=199772
driftwoodhunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 06:50 AM   #475
Itwasntme
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: w-europe
Posts: 27
Default

Heres couple of pics of my new tanks HMF-solution. The tank is 150g, as you can see, the HMF is quite small and doesnt take much room in the corner. There runs a spraybar behind plants so you can`t see the bar when looking aquarium normally. The filter is totally unseen behind bushes.
Attached Images
  
Itwasntme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2012, 04:53 PM   #476
GeToChKn
Planted Tank Guru
 
GeToChKn's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,116
Default

I ran into a problem with my active substrate, so decided to redo my tank and use a HMF. Here's a start of it.


So my Netlea (Similar to ADA) soil, after absorbing all kinds of things from the tank, has decided to start releasing them, so it's time to get rid of it. It's the problem with any active substrate. They have a high CEC and can store things from the water and release them when full. They can also run out of whatever they use to lower the pH. Either way, they do have a lifespan, especially what we want from the soil for shrimp. I am going to reuse it for my planted tank though after a rinse, let it suck up the nutrients I dose and from root tabs.

Mine seems to be loaded with Nitrates and Phosphates. I got algae growing over sponge filters, walls, plants, sponge intakes, rocks, everything. I've taken soil out of the tank, into a container with fresh water, 20-40ppm nitrates within 24 hours. The soil's cap-put.

So I came up with a Hamburg matten filter for my filtration. The tank is a 20gal tank. I'm going to use a bit of inert gravel but leave a big portion of the tank bare bottom for easy cleanup, etc. I am going to use Ebi-ken Sosei, which is a product to lower the pH of your RO water by adding an organic dis solvable fluvic acid that can be added to your RO for water changes and will drop the pH to a acidic range without affect other param's.

Here's the sponge with a dry fit with some supports to hold the sponge in place.



Support rails painted black with Kyrlon paint and siliconed into place.



My helper





The idea behind a Hamburg Matten filter is that you put a powerhead or airdriven lift tube behind the sponge, and expelling water out of the area back into the area in front. This forces water to be pulled through the giant wall of sponge. This provides filtration, huge area for biofilm for shrimp, and very low maintenance as the sponge can go sometimes a year or two without being removed and cleaned. The bonus is shrimp love sponges for munching, so bonus for them. Some people even get a bit of moss growing and creeping up the sponge to create a moss wall.

Here's a pic of how the HMF works.



So far I haven't lost any shrimp from the Nitrate/Phosphate dumping but babies sure aren't there like they should. No amount of water changes was able to get rid of it, so I'll see how this method works.

Here's the dry fit for the substrate divider. It's a plastic PVC based compound called Celuka. It's basically the same stuff they use for PVC pipes that's heated and then filled with tiny micro air bubbles then compressed to give a very hard, PVC "wood" that comes in 1x6 and 2x4 and all the standard lumber sizes. It can be cut with a chop shop and comes out with a super smooth edge without sanding, can be drilled, painted, just like wood but just pure PVC. I've used it for turtle docks, crayfish homes, all kinds of things in tanks before and since it's just PVC, just heated with air and no additives, it's safe for tanks like PVC is. I'm going to paint it black and silicone it in so the front part of the tank is bare and can be used for feeding and easy cleanup and the gravel will be contained against the sponge, so it will seal the bottom of the sponge to stop shrimp from crawling under, and act like a UGF and pull crap out of the substrate towards the sponge.



I was also reading Frank say that basically inert soils but ones with a high CEC (He was referring to Akadama) will absorb some of the fluvic acid from the Sosei and release it, thus helping stabilize the ph of water over time as small amounts will be retained and released by the soil. Another reason I choose Flourite black for my substrate.


The other thing with the HMF is you can hide your heater, CO2 difussor, whatever behind the sponge.

Here's the divider glued in and painted.



Painted the bottom of the tank black



I have a fluval 2 internal filter, so I can stuff it with purigen or floss or whatever I want to get a bit of different filtration in there besides the jumbo sponge wall.

Here it is connected to my output that will sit above the water line to get lots of surface movement and O2 exchange. The water rushes through all the holes and slams against them and that should increase O2 content as well as it's creating movement of the return water.




I got some Sosei ordered and should have it in by Tuesday, so I'll see how that works for lowering the pH. I got lots of stuff to load up the tank quickly with biofilm, so it shouldn't take long before I can add some low grades and see how they like it. I think I'd be happy with 6.5pH water for them instead of the 5pH Netlea gives me. Snails don't last long in the low pH, some plants don't like it and as Randy said in another post, it is rather acidic at that pH.


I'm moving in about a year and plan on building a nice shrimp breeding rack, so this is also a test to see if I can get them breeding without active substrate, giant filter wall that doesn't need to be changed or cleaned and something I can add to the water to lower the pH some what. I don't want a rack of 20 tanks with active substrate that need to be replaced, canister filters that need cleaning, etc. Very costly and time consuming to maintain 20 tanks like that. Much easier to have mostly bare bottom tanks, mostly air driven, very little cleaning time, etc.


Thread in the shrimp forum that I'll be keep fairly up to date about the whole procedure.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=200561
__________________
20g platy, , 2 x 10g shrimp, 3 x 20g shrimp, 7.5g shrimp and 1 great dane/mastiff puppy.

Sump Pimp #2

My Tanks and my shrimps
GeToChKn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2012, 02:34 AM   #477
driftwoodhunter
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (23/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Christiansburg, Va
Posts: 2,756
Default

Nice! So glad to see you added this to this thread. I think it would be great to see everyone's HMF located in one thread to make it easier to learn from all of them.
__________________
The Fraternity of Dirt # 7 - Daughter of the Dirt - Canon Club #018
Twin 29g Dirt Tanks on an Iron Stand - DIY 3D Backgrounds
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/ta...stand-pic.html
The Behemoth - 125 dirt tank
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=199772
driftwoodhunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2012, 05:01 PM   #478
DogFish
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (33/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Gone
Posts: 5,988
Default

On Cleaning ~

I've read several people post that some "europeans" are claiming these filters can go years without cleaning? I'm not buying into that after cleaning my Aquaponic sump/Goldfish tank.

You would not believe how nasty 4 - 2" bodied Orandas in 40gls. could make a Matten Filter in 60days. My 1st rinse water was yellow-brown and you could not see the white bottom of the plastic bucket. It took 7 rinses, each time with 3 fresh gallons of tank water. After seeing that water, I would be very suspect any Mattenfilter could go years without cleaning even if it was a shrimp tank.

Don't get me wrong I think these are great filters in some applications. I'm considering moving my 10 to a 20L and I'll use a MF in that tank.

Last edited by DogFish; 12-25-2012 at 05:58 PM.. Reason: sp
DogFish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2012, 05:24 PM   #479
Diana
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Contra Costa CA
Posts: 7,453
Default

I suspect there are several things going on that may reduce the cleaning needed, but I have not used them long enough to be sure.

1) Large surface area means the debris is spread out, not concentrated to the point of slowing the water flow through the media.
2) Wide spread means better available oxygen for the decomposers to work faster. The debris that does get trapped is broken down faster than in a filter that is slowing down because of clogging with debris. Wide spread means slower water flow per cubic inch of media, so the decomposers are not getting blasted and injured by too fast water movement. I think there is an optimum range of water flow for the microorganisms and Mattenfilters seem to hit that range really well. Fast enough for good oxygen, not too fast.
3) I do remember reading that cleaning these is done by siphon or vacuuming the surface without removing the media from the tank. This can be done with every water change. Perhaps the 'years between cleaning' means the media is not removed from the tank for cleaning very often, though it may be vacuumed in place more frequently.
4) I am sure the volume of media, the water flow and the bio load need to be balanced to achieve the lower maintenance needs.
Maybe you need more filter media to handle the waste from 4 Golds.

I can easily believe how filthy Golds can be. I once had to house a dozen 4"-6" Golds inside while the leaks in my pond were found and fixed. Daily water changes were not enough. We never saw the Golds after the first day!
Diana is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2012, 06:17 PM   #480
DogFish
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (33/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Gone
Posts: 5,988
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana View Post
....
3) I do remember reading that cleaning these is done by siphon or vacuuming the surface without removing the media from the tank. This can be done with every water change. Perhaps the 'years between cleaning' means the media is not removed from the tank for cleaning very often, though it may be vacuumed in place more frequently.....

In my world cleaning is cleaning, while I believe in Santa Clause, I don't believe things are 1/2 clean, we either clean the filter or we don't clean the filter.

Maybe these claims attributed to unknown europeans are being taken out of context or maybe they were a bit exaggerated.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana View Post
4) I am sure the volume of media, the water flow and the bio load need to be balanced to achieve the lower maintenance needs.
Maybe you need more filter media to handle the waste from 4 Golds.
I agree with the engineering concepts of mass x flows bio-load. Im my 40gl. tank, I have a 18x18x2.75" MF. I run a aquaball power head constantly and a 600gph pump cycles 10gl of water 7xs a day throughout the grow bed that also acts as a filter. Feeding is 3-4xs a day all food it eaten immediately, none falls to the bottom.

There are only 4 - small goldfish in the tank. I can not believe I'm under filtered.

Again I'm impressed with the MF. The amount of waste it collects is amazing.
DogFish is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Planted Tank LLC 2012