DiCi Regulator + Solenoid leak?
Planted Tank Forums
Your Tanks Image Hosting *Tank Tracker * Plant Profiles Fish Profiles Planted Tank Guide Photo Gallery Articles

Go Back   The Planted Tank Forum > Specific Aspects of a Planted Tank > Equipment


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-08-2012, 06:13 AM   #1
Harshal1992
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 21
Default

DiCi Regulator + Solenoid leak?


Hey guys,

I just bought a DiCi regulator w/ a solenoid from AI, and when it shuts off at night with the timer, I can still see some leaking.. if I turn the valve up, more bubbles flow, then it goes back to a very slow pace (still slowly leaking). Is there possibly a leak? What's going on?

Any help appreciated,

Thank you!

Harshal.
Harshal1992 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-08-2012, 06:49 AM   #2
Darkblade48
Moderator
 
Darkblade48's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 9,017
Default

How long does the leaking go on for? Some flow is expected after the solenoid closes, as the residual CO2 will still make its way out.

If there is still flow after (say) 1-2 hours after the solenoid is closed, then there might be some debris that is blocking the solenoid plunger from closing all the way.

A quick blast from your cylinder while the solenoid is open should blow out any debris (it might be best to take your needle valve and bubble counter, if they are present off when you do this)
__________________
Anthony

A Primer to Pressurized CO2 and A Primer to Planted Tanks
Eheim Pimp #362 - Eheim 2213 x2, Eheim 2028, Eheim 2217, Eheim surface skimmer and Eheim autofeeder.
Victor Pimp #33 - HPT272-125-350-4M
Darkblade48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 02:09 PM   #3
PlantedRich
Planted Tank Guru
 
PlantedRich's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Pflugerville, Tx
Posts: 3,892
Default

If blowing it out doesn't get it, the solenoids I have seen are normally quite simple to take apart. Not much inside the ones I use. A bit of cleaning and lube on the plunger may be worthwhile. Just a tiny film of Vaseline works for me.
PlantedRich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 09:30 PM   #4
Harshal1992
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 21
Default

So I just took out the BC and Needle valve and blew out some CO2 for a second, three times. The problem still remains I think. My needle valve is a bit crooked.. will that affect my solenoid in any way?
Harshal1992 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 09:43 PM   #5
Darkblade48
Moderator
 
Darkblade48's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 9,017
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harshal1992 View Post
So I just took out the BC and Needle valve and blew out some CO2 for a second, three times. The problem still remains I think. My needle valve is a bit crooked.. will that affect my solenoid in any way?
The needle valve being crooked is another problem in itself (it will not affect the solenoid being able to close all the way).

As I asked before, how long after the solenoid shuts are you still seeing CO2? Even after my solenoid shuts, the gas flows for about 15-20 minutes afterwards.
__________________
Anthony

A Primer to Pressurized CO2 and A Primer to Planted Tanks
Eheim Pimp #362 - Eheim 2213 x2, Eheim 2028, Eheim 2217, Eheim surface skimmer and Eheim autofeeder.
Victor Pimp #33 - HPT272-125-350-4M
Darkblade48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2012, 06:31 AM   #6
Harshal1992
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 21
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkblade48 View Post
The needle valve being crooked is another problem in itself (it will not affect the solenoid being able to close all the way).

As I asked before, how long after the solenoid shuts are you still seeing CO2? Even after my solenoid shuts, the gas flows for about 15-20 minutes afterwards.
I guess it really just was some gunk stuck inside, checked after ~2 hours of shutting off, and there's absolutely no flow! Or maybe a bubble per minute. Thanks!
Harshal1992 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2012, 05:45 PM   #7
exv152
Wannabe Guru
 
exv152's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,171
Default

Just a heads up. I also bought a Dici regulator back in January and I noticed another problem. At night when the solenoid went off, the working pressure slowly began going up from 35 psi, all the way to almost 100 psi. Another guy in Toronto who had the same issue but his went as high as 60 psi. I ended up removing the regulator on the advice of several people aquarium and gas people, and the thing's been sitting on a shelf ever since. Something you want to keep an eye out for.
__________________
Eheim Pimp Club,# 496
25g 60-H
125g high tech
7g 30cm cube
33g 50cm iwagumi cube
75g low tech angelfish
exv152 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2012, 10:12 PM   #8
Harshal1992
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 21
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by exv152 View Post
Just a heads up. I also bought a Dici regulator back in January and I noticed another problem. At night when the solenoid went off, the working pressure slowly began going up from 35 psi, all the way to almost 100 psi. Another guy in Toronto who had the same issue but his went as high as 60 psi. I ended up removing the regulator on the advice of several people aquarium and gas people, and the thing's been sitting on a shelf ever since. Something you want to keep an eye out for.
Mine is sitting steadily around 60 psi. Is that a bad thing?

Harshal.
Harshal1992 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2012, 11:10 PM   #9
Darkblade48
Moderator
 
Darkblade48's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 9,017
Default

If the pressure is 60 PSI when your solenoid is open, then that means your delivery pressure is set too high.

If the pressure is within a reasonable range when your solenoid is open (i.e. say 20-30 PSI), but then increases to 60 PSI when the solenoid is closed, it may become a problem (most solenoids are designed to hold back at least 100 PSI, but it depends on the solenoid).

@exv152: What was the cause of the increase in pressure?
__________________
Anthony

A Primer to Pressurized CO2 and A Primer to Planted Tanks
Eheim Pimp #362 - Eheim 2213 x2, Eheim 2028, Eheim 2217, Eheim surface skimmer and Eheim autofeeder.
Victor Pimp #33 - HPT272-125-350-4M
Darkblade48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 01:05 AM   #10
exv152
Wannabe Guru
 
exv152's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,171
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harshal1992 View Post
Mine is sitting steadily around 60 psi. Is that a bad thing?
Harshal.
Yup. When your working pressure is set at 35 psi, and the solenoid goes off the psi should not go up more than a couple of psi at worst, on a good regulator it will sit steady and not budge. But if yours is going up another 25psi you run the risk of having something go badly wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkblade48 View Post
If the pressure is 60 PSI when your solenoid is open, then that means your delivery pressure is set too high.

If the pressure is within a reasonable range when your solenoid is open (i.e. say 20-30 PSI), but then increases to 60 PSI when the solenoid is closed, it may become a problem (most solenoids are designed to hold back at least 100 PSI, but it depends on the solenoid).

@exv152: What was the cause of the increase in pressure?
These regulators are made in China and they're really cheap. I would not mess around with a gas pressurized cylinder. The working pressure is not supposed to go up that high.

I never bothered to discover what the cause was, all I knew was myself and another fella had the same issues, and he brought his back they would not give him a refund, insisting the unit was safe. Yet when he took it to his gas supplier people they told him not to mess around with it and get rid of it. Mine has been shelved ever since. I now have a micromatic and a cornelius. Both stay steady and don't budge a single psi when the solenoid turns off. Just my two cents.
__________________
Eheim Pimp Club,# 496
25g 60-H
125g high tech
7g 30cm cube
33g 50cm iwagumi cube
75g low tech angelfish
exv152 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 01:50 PM   #11
Harshal1992
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 21
Default

Thanks a lot you guys, I'll be checking the pressure carefully over the next few days just to see what's going on with it. AI definitely does NOT have a good return policy.. so that complicated things.

Thanks,

Harshal.
Harshal1992 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 03:03 PM   #12
Bettatail
Planted Tank Guru
 
Bettatail's Avatar
 
PTrader: (86/98%)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,403
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by exv152 View Post
Just a heads up. I also bought a Dici regulator back in January and I noticed another problem. At night when the solenoid went off, the working pressure slowly began going up from 35 psi, all the way to almost 100 psi. Another guy in Toronto who had the same issue but his went as high as 60 psi. I ended up removing the regulator on the advice of several people aquarium and gas people, and the thing's been sitting on a shelf ever since. Something you want to keep an eye out for.
First, Dici regs are preset output pressure, aren't they?

I think the problem is that the poppet valve doesn't seal well, or you can call it a "internal leak".
when you set(or a preset) the working/output pressure, that is the pressure the regulator suppose to hold at the output point, no matter solenoid on or off.
when the solenoid off, the seal at inside poppet valve can't stop the slow leak of co2, so output pressure slowly goes up. The slow rising pressure may stop when the output pressure rise to a point that the diaphragm been pushed hard enough and the poppet valve completely sealed/closed. but if not, it just keep going up until solenoid can't hold.
Bettatail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 07:33 PM   #13
exv152
Wannabe Guru
 
exv152's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,171
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettatail View Post
First, Dici regs are preset output pressure, aren't they?

I think the problem is that the poppet valve doesn't seal well, or you can call it a "internal leak".
when you set(or a preset) the working/output pressure, that is the pressure the regulator suppose to hold at the output point, no matter solenoid on or off.
when the solenoid off, the seal at inside poppet valve can't stop the slow leak of co2, so output pressure slowly goes up. The slow rising pressure may stop when the output pressure rise to a point that the diaphragm been pushed hard enough and the poppet valve completely sealed/closed. but if not, it just keep going up until solenoid can't hold.
Yes they are preset working pressure regulators. Sounds like a good description of what's most likely happening with these regs. That said, and on the advice of various people; gas experts, aquarists etc, do you feel continuing to use these regs is safe? The one I had rose from 35 to 100 psi, and my friend's rose from 35 to 65 psi after the solenoid went off. I tried examining to see if I could open the regulator, but it seems to be hermetically sealed, and I think the thing would be ruined if I opened it to try and maybe replace the faulty part. Any thoughts?
__________________
Eheim Pimp Club,# 496
25g 60-H
125g high tech
7g 30cm cube
33g 50cm iwagumi cube
75g low tech angelfish
exv152 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 08:32 PM   #14
Drewsplantednutz
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Drewsplantednutz's Avatar
 
PTrader: (14/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: MASS
Posts: 356
Default

I was thinking of saving the $40 bucks and getting this Dici regulator from hong kong rather than the milwaukee one. Thanks you just made my mind for me!!! Ill stay with american made. Anyone know of a better regulator with solenoid for under $100 than the milwaukee ma957??
Drewsplantednutz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 03:10 AM   #15
Harshal1992
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 21
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewsplantednutz View Post
I was thinking of saving the $40 bucks and getting this Dici regulator from hong kong rather than the milwaukee one. Thanks you just made my mind for me!!! Ill stay with american made. Anyone know of a better regulator with solenoid for under $100 than the milwaukee ma957??
I've heard some bad things about the Milwaukee 957, which is why I didn't go with it. Apparently it's quite the hit or miss with it.
__________________
Thanks,

Harshal.

Last edited by Harshal1992; 11-12-2012 at 03:36 AM.. Reason: Changed signature
Harshal1992 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Planted Tank LLC 2012