help with external overflow
Planted Tank Forums
Your Tanks Image Hosting *Tank Tracker * Plant Profiles Fish Profiles Planted Tank Guide Photo Gallery Articles

Go Back   The Planted Tank Forum > Specific Aspects of a Planted Tank > DIY


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-29-2012, 03:46 AM   #1
starquestMM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Missouri
Posts: 103
Default

help with external overflow


I finished my plumbing today and fired up the new set up. The standpipe setup works great and I can tune it silent using the gate valve as designed.

Basically I have an internal weir that feeds an external overflow. There are a series of holes drilled in the aquarium side to allow water to pass from inside to outside. The problem is that the water level in the external box is too low and there is a very noisy waterfall through the holes.

Here is a pic, you can see the turbulence:



First Idea I had was baffle fit between the standpipes and the holes to force the water to travel around. Like so with a lid (which helped):



Second idea is maybe change the configuration of the middle open flow standpipe? But, I don't know if I can raise the water level using just the open flow standpipe? I can easily change the water level by closing off the siphon flow standpipe, but then too much water flows through the open flow standpipe for it to stay silent.

Any other ideas on how to fix this? I'm so close
starquestMM is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-29-2012, 05:31 AM   #2
willknowitall
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: canada
Posts: 496
Default

if you close the gate valve on the syphon a bit it should rise the waterline on the outside box

i see now the holes in tank are low too
i would dry overflow box out and silicon a piece of glass on the inside of box so that only top half of holes let water in
or as much as necessary
willknowitall is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-29-2012, 12:55 PM   #3
the4x4hoss
Algae Grower
 
the4x4hoss's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Glenn Heights, TX
Posts: 91
Default

I would configure all your standpipes like the one on the left in the pictures. Your water line will be at the midline of the "tee" so cut longer sections of PVC for in between the bulkhead and the "tee" to raise the "tee" to whatever height will completely submerge the holes in your tank. If you want a completely full tank and overflow, the top of your standpipes will be above the rim of the tank.
__________________
Born to fish, forced to work, but only have time for work, family, and my aquarium.
the4x4hoss is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-29-2012, 04:19 PM   #4
GraphicGr8s
Pixel Prestidigitator
 
GraphicGr8s's Avatar
 
PTrader: (10/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: West coast of the east coast of the USA.
Posts: 2,776
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by willknowitall View Post
if you close the gate valve on the syphon a bit it should rise the waterline on the outside box

i see now the holes in tank are low too
i would dry overflow box out and silicon a piece of glass on the inside of box so that only top half of holes let water in
or as much as necessary
Why would that matter at all? The height of the standpipe will determine level in tank not the holes. The holes will determine only the minimum level in the tank.

Quote:
I can easily change the water level by closing off the siphon flow standpipe, but then too much water flows through the open flow standpipe for it to stay silent.
Shouldn't the open standpipe be higher to act as an emergency overflow with the main water going down the inverted elbow so it is fairly silent?

Throttle back the valve so that the water level is higher in the overflow to eliminate the waterfall effect. Water should only flow through inverted elbow in normal circumstances. Second elbow is safety flow. If something happens like a blockage in main then water flows here. Third pipe is full open and should theoretically only have flow in a crisis situation. At least that's my understanding of it. IMO you can throttle back pipes one and two. Last open standpipe should have clear path to sump in case of major malfunction.
__________________
Recedite, plebes! Gero rem imperialem.
Quote me as saying I was misquoted.
Once you get rid of integrity the rest is a piece of cake.
Here's to our wives and sweethearts - may they never meet.
If you agreed with me we'd both be right.
GraphicGr8s is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-30-2012, 12:18 AM   #5
starquestMM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Missouri
Posts: 103
Default

I tried cutting up a baffle out of some plastic and got it to work really well that way. Basically its friction fit between the holes and the standpipe and has a notch along the bottom to allow water past. Perfectly silent drain.

I wish I could say the same for the blueline hd30 which is as noisy as any cheap pond pump Everybody said this would be a quiet, maybe I got a defective one.
starquestMM is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-30-2012, 01:58 AM   #6
GraphicGr8s
Pixel Prestidigitator
 
GraphicGr8s's Avatar
 
PTrader: (10/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: West coast of the east coast of the USA.
Posts: 2,776
Default

In rereading your OP I have a question. You have a "box" around the holes on the inside the tank? With another box on the outside for the overflow? The holes are just a pass through between the 2 boxes?
__________________
Recedite, plebes! Gero rem imperialem.
Quote me as saying I was misquoted.
Once you get rid of integrity the rest is a piece of cake.
Here's to our wives and sweethearts - may they never meet.
If you agreed with me we'd both be right.
GraphicGr8s is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-30-2012, 09:25 AM   #7
willknowitall
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: canada
Posts: 496
Default

''Why would that matter at all? The height of the standpipe will determine level in tank not the holes. The holes will determine only the minimum level in the tank.''

the out flow is a syphon, it height does not determine out box level.just its flow rate
much more out flow the syphon breaks because the level in box drops and air gets sucked in and or great more noise, any less flow and the levels become even with tank making it just a filter intake not a overflow
there is not enough play between tank level and sypon level to adjust well

Last edited by willknowitall; 10-30-2012 at 09:44 AM.. Reason: sp
willknowitall is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-30-2012, 05:02 PM   #8
GraphicGr8s
Pixel Prestidigitator
 
GraphicGr8s's Avatar
 
PTrader: (10/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: West coast of the east coast of the USA.
Posts: 2,776
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by willknowitall View Post
''Why would that matter at all? The height of the standpipe will determine level in tank not the holes. The holes will determine only the minimum level in the tank.''

the out flow is a syphon, it height does not determine out box level.just its flow rate
much more out flow the syphon breaks because the level in box drops and air gets sucked in and or great more noise, any less flow and the levels become even with tank making it just a filter intake not a overflow
there is not enough play between tank level and sypon level to adjust well
In the setup he has, the first pipe with the elbow could run with or without siphon effect. As soon as water gets just above the level of the tee that the downfacing elbow is attached to water will flow. Given the same setup if he were to raise the tee he could raise the height of the water level in the outside box (this is of course disregarding the incorrect height of the other 2 pipes.

We are in agreement that there is no adjustability in this setup.
Curious. What do you consider an overflow and what do you consider a filter intake? I'll give you my take. An overflow gets the surface water. A filter intake could get surface water but more than likely is below the surface. Looking at the first picture it appears he has a glass box on the inside of the tank. I'm not 100% sure so I asked the question. If he does that will determine actual tank water level. So all he needs to do is control water between the 2 boxes. If the holes are fully submerged it won't matter at all.

The part I highlighted in red looks like glass siliconed to the inside of the tank so the actual overflow is inside the tank and the outer box is in reality a filter intake. Unless I am overlooking something.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Recedite, plebes! Gero rem imperialem.
Quote me as saying I was misquoted.
Once you get rid of integrity the rest is a piece of cake.
Here's to our wives and sweethearts - may they never meet.
If you agreed with me we'd both be right.
GraphicGr8s is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-30-2012, 05:54 PM   #9
starquestMM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Missouri
Posts: 103
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GraphicGr8s View Post
In rereading your OP I have a question. You have a "box" around the holes on the inside the tank? With another box on the outside for the overflow? The holes are just a pass through between the 2 boxes?
Correct.

I will take a better picture tonight and include the baffle.

I guess my major design flaw was not accounting for the difference in water level set by the siphon system and the water level inside the wier box. I should have made them the same physical hieght.

Last edited by starquestMM; 10-30-2012 at 06:08 PM.. Reason: clarification
starquestMM is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-30-2012, 08:02 PM   #10
GraphicGr8s
Pixel Prestidigitator
 
GraphicGr8s's Avatar
 
PTrader: (10/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: West coast of the east coast of the USA.
Posts: 2,776
Default

If you're trying to run a "Herbie" drain you don't need the outside box at all. Will your holes fit standard bulkhead sizing?
__________________
Recedite, plebes! Gero rem imperialem.
Quote me as saying I was misquoted.
Once you get rid of integrity the rest is a piece of cake.
Here's to our wives and sweethearts - may they never meet.
If you agreed with me we'd both be right.
GraphicGr8s is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Planted Tank LLC 2012