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Old 10-10-2012, 04:11 AM   #16
plantbrain
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Originally Posted by pejerrey View Post
Shrimp need above 4 GH minimum, most people keep it above 6. Otherwise they can't molt right.
Mine never had any trouble.

A good article for the OP:
http://www.tropica.com/en/tropica-ab...and-light.aspx

As you can see, even at the lowest levels of light, the plants grew 3-4x faster, in all cases in fact, with no added energy requirement.
In fact, you can use LESS light if you use CO2. This is because the plant can allocate all it's limited resources to catching light..and not having to chose between light AND getting what little CO2 is there.

As light intensity increases, the curve of CO2 uptake is non linear, it levels off at about 200-600 umol for most species.
Some plants are very competitive for cO2 and can grow with very little light and CO2.

Some are much harder to grow unless you add CO2, eg, UG is a foreground plant that will not grow without CO2 gas.
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Old 10-10-2012, 04:46 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by plantbrain View Post
Mine never had any trouble.

A good article for the OP:
http://www.tropica.com/en/tropica-ab...and-light.aspx

As you can see, even at the lowest levels of light, the plants grew 3-4x faster, in all cases in fact, with no added energy requirement.
In fact, you can use LESS light if you use CO2. This is because the plant can allocate all it's limited resources to catching light..and not having to chose between light AND getting what little CO2 is there.

As light intensity increases, the curve of CO2 uptake is non linear, it levels off at about 200-600 umol for most species.
Some plants are very competitive for cO2 and can grow with very little light and CO2.

Some are much harder to grow unless you add CO2, eg, UG is a foreground plant that will not grow without CO2 gas.
Really? How low was your GH?
I've been advice to keep it above 4 at all times.
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Old 10-10-2012, 05:08 PM   #18
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Great article , makes me want co2 even more , can someone take a look at my plant list and let me know if co2 is absoluty necessary or can I get away with medium light and no co2 . The slower the plants grow the better but I want them to be healthy I'm looking for as little pruning as I can get away with
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Old 10-10-2012, 05:15 PM   #19
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Great article , makes me want co2 even more , can someone take a look at my plant list and let me know if co2 is absoluty necessary or can I get away with medium light and no co2 . The slower the plants grow the better but I want them to be healthy I'm looking for as little pruning as I can get away with
HC has a rough time without CO2. Some folks say they can grow it with Excel, while others say Excel didn't cut it for them. Minimally, HC needs a carbon source. Ideally, pressurized CO2. Most of your other plants seem fine, but I only have experience with a few of them.
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Old 10-10-2012, 05:24 PM   #20
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Thanks a lot I may give it try without
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:33 PM   #21
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You could have some fun with a DIY CO2 setup to see if you like it. I've experienced some plants do fine without CO2. In my experience swords crypts and moss do well without it. They would grow faster with it, but that can also kill shrimp. Get a drop checker if you are going to do CO2. Anyways I'd keep the photo period to no more than 8 hours a day if you have high light no CO2.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:19 PM   #22
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You should think about a paintball co2.
It's cheap, and easy to get refills.
Having co2 is just sooo much nicer.

Or change your lights for low light but I don't know much about how you could make sure of doing that right.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:37 PM   #23
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Unfortunately the only co2 I could aquire is from the beer companies (usually used for kegs) , paintball is illegal here , will a small DIY in a 2litre soda bottle help any or is my 65g tank just to big.
The other question is about surface agitation , if I do not add co2 should I use an stone or not ? Ive heard various conflicting opinions , what do you guys think ? I plan on heavily stocking with fish and shrimp as well , should I use the bubbler with no fish and and vice versa ?
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:46 PM   #24
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Again, a big suggestion:

You need to make sure that you go low light. That is your priority now I think.

Once you are sure to have low light you can use an airstone or other method of surface agitation.

The bubbles from the airstone are not "injecting" air in the tank. They agitate he surface and create current which is good if you are not trying to keep a high level of co2 in the water.

Colder tanks, under 75F hold dissolved gasses better. Choose your livestock for your tank parameters instead of trying to force the tank parameters to the livestock needs... It's easier.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:04 PM   #25
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Good advice pjerrey , thats what i'm trying , I have soft water so i'm looking into soft water species ,I hate too much algae, I think I may have to bite the bullet and go full on high tech , thanks to you guys it doesnt sound so complicated anymore . If I do go with co2 are those plants gonna explode to the point I have to prune more than once week ? and can you tell me a little about ph swings when the lights and co2 turn off please
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:00 AM   #26
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An airstone is only going to aid you if you have poor circulation and for stripping of CO2 from the water. If your running CO2, it wouldn't hurt to run an airstone at night to prevent CO2 from building up. No matter what the tech level, heavy fish load is going to produce algae. Shrimp on the otherhand maybe not. Yeast reactor CO2 can work. You can't use like a ceramic disc diffuser as it's not high enough pressure, but you would have to find an effective way of injecting it into the water (there are some commercially available products out there). ON a tank that size, you would need probably 4-6 2 liter bottles, you can have them all plumbed into one line. The more bottles the better, as each bottle will probably last you around 3 weeks before it should be restarted. IF you stagger the bottle resets, you can get pretty stable Co2 production from this method. Or if you can't get that going, dosing excel could work too-or get plants that don't demand CO2, set a conservative photoperiod, and keep the fish stocking really light.
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