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Old 10-04-2012, 04:33 AM   #16
sayurasem
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Doesn't Prime eliminate chloramines? I don't get it.
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Old 10-04-2012, 04:41 AM   #17
Monster Fish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayurasem View Post
Doesn't Prime eliminate chloramines? I don't get it.
I was thinking the same. Or does the Purigen release chloramines into the tank after getting recharged if you were using ferts with EDTA? I remember reading to avoid using water conditioners containing amine-based slime-coats when regenerate Purigen. Tetra Aquasafe came into mind. Here's the link: http://www.seachem.com/support/forum...ead.php?t=3411
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Last edited by Monster Fish; 10-04-2012 at 04:46 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:43 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayurasem View Post
Doesn't Prime eliminate chloramines? I don't get it.
The princess is (from Seachem):
1. EDTA bonds with Purigen during use with CSM+B.
2. Upon regent with bleach. Chloramines are formed between the bleach and amines, and remain bonded to Purigen.
3. Use of Prime eliminates free chloramines (not those bonded to the Purigen). Seachem has been a bit vague on how this works, but has confirmed that it does take place.
4. The protective effects of Prime last for a couple of days, but the bonded chloramines can still be released afterward into the column.
5. While Seachem are vague about some of the mechanics, they have clearly stated that the Purigen is unsafe after contact with EDTA and subsequent regeneration.
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Old 10-04-2012, 03:24 PM   #19
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Wait, should i take the purigen out even if I haven't regenerated? I do use CSMb.
Now I'm confused.
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Old 10-04-2012, 03:32 PM   #20
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Nah, you can keep it in the tank. The purigen is only dangerous if you choose to regenerate it with bleach since it has been exposed to CSM+B. If you regenerate it, it will produce chloramine and continue to release it into your tank, long after the Prime has worn off.
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Old 10-04-2012, 04:02 PM   #21
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I love purigen. I buy new each time. It lasts several months in my tank. I use it in an eheim 2217.
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Old 10-04-2012, 05:37 PM   #22
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Today, I got a definitive answer from Seachem in response to one of my posts in a forum they monitor.

Many members, including myself, will be relieved with this answer:

"I understand your confusion and apologize. The type of amine (tertiary, secondary, etc) is immaterial to the issue. It is the specific slime-coat chemical formulation of certain competing slime coat products that causes them to bond to polymer based resin materials in a manner that is highly resistant to oxidative destruction (via chlorine regeneration). If such a slime coat product had no amine as part of its chemical makeup the situation would merely be annoying, however the amine can undergo partial oxidation to a chloramine while still remaining bound to the resin via the slime coat material (likely through non-covalent interactions). It can then be slowly released back into the water through normal chemical breakdown of the slime coat material on the resin over time.

Although this phenomena exists with any polymer type resin (not just Purigen) it is particularly acute with Purigen because Purigen predominantly and selectively binds and removes amines (whereas other resins indiscriminately bind amines and other chemical groups). So the point is, it happens with all resins, but it happens more with Purigen. However it is not merely the fact that there is an amine present since Purigen removes a whole host of organic amine based nitrogenous waste and this is no issue at all since in those cases since those materials are readily oxidized and "burned" off the Purigen.

So, to answer your question, EDTA is not of concern in this situation as its overall structure is quite different from the amine based slime coat products (although we can't say what the differences are exactly since those other products are not ours and are proprietary). What we can say is we have never encountered this phenomena with EDTA based products nor have we encountered anecdotal evidence to suggest otherwise.

The prior tech support answer you received erred on the side of being overly cautious and was clouded I think by focusing on the amine aspect of this issue and not the slime coat aspect which is the actual source of the problem. I apologize for the confusion and we shall make sure all support staff here are on the same page with respect to this issue as well as updating our FAQ on this topic to add some clarity to this issue.."
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Old 10-04-2012, 06:31 PM   #23
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Ok now in English please!
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:43 PM   #24
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In English

EDTA is no problem with Purigen.

It is only amine based water conditioners that should not be used with purigen.
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:44 PM   #25
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Alright! Now I understand. Thanks
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:00 AM   #26
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Thank you for the update. I'll be putting it back in my filter now. Wait, I threw it into the plant quarantine tub. Oy. Need bleach first.
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:54 AM   #27
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Thanks for pressing Seachem and getting a more definitive answer on this. And for updating us as well.
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:32 PM   #28
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You're welcome.

Its been a frustrating journey trying to get proper answers to this question. I was ready to throw away my Purigen. At least I now know that I can reuse it safely.

I've learned so much in these forums. I'm glad I could contribute a little back.
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Old 10-06-2012, 01:24 PM   #29
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Just want to add my thanks to you for pursuing this until you got a proper answer out of seachem!

I love seachem's products, but getting answers out of them is tough since the "first layer" tech support people don't understand how the products work (in terms of the actual chemistry involved), which results in weird/misleading answers if you ask them anything that they haven't been specifically told the answer to.
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