Cherry Red Shrimp DYING. Help :0! (solved? have healthy shrimp now..)
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Old 08-08-2012, 08:18 AM   #1
theericafish
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Cherry Red Shrimp DYING. Help :0! (solved? have healthy shrimp now..)



Well I think they died during molting. Two have a broken spot in their back where it looks like they were trying to come out.

I'm not sure if this is because they died while trying to molt or if it happened after they had died.

I started with 12(adults?.. about 3/4th of an inch long), down to 8. They also came with 4 babies which have not died and are growing. I've only had them for about a week and I bought them the same day they were available at the lfs. I would have waited but they tend to sell out the same day they arrive so there wasn't much of an option there.

Water conditions:

0 ammonia
0 nitrite
5-10 nitrate
ph. ~6.7
Temp: pretty constant 79, may go down to 78 and may go as high as 81 during the day.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=178641
^my journal, at the moment there is much more moss and the plants are re-arranged a bit but the hardware is the same.
Tank is "medium" planted.
I am NOT using co2.
I have not done a water change on the tank yet since I've only had them for about a week. Water change is tomorrow.
They were acclimated like so: 15min floating adjusting the temp, added a little water, waited 15min, added a little more water, waited 15min, more water, 15min, then added them to the tank using a net carefully.

After being in the tank for 4 days, one died, the next day 3 died.


There have been about 3 molts laying around in tank so some of them are successfully molting. I also have 3 amanos in another tank using the same declorinator(prime) and same water from our tap for 4 months and they are super healthy and berried often(biggest ones I have seen ). So I doubt copper is the killer.

Their bodies are in tact and have no missing appendages, they are in a community tank with ember tetra and galaxy rasboras(celestial pearl danios). I see no signs of harassment.

I have not actually seen them dying but I made a couple observations. One was hiding under the moss for a long time acting sluggish, next day I found a dead one under the moss in a similar area to where that one was hiding.

Another one was at the surface of the water hanging on the side of the tank but I figured that was normal because my amano usually do that after molting(I guess staying in a safe spot as their shells fully harden).

I cannot say that the shrimp doing those things were the ones that actually died though.

The first shrimp was found in a curled position. The other three look as if they just stopped moving(one was under the moss in a normal position, one latched onto anubias and the third on its side in the open)

They seem to have died during the day time(I found one that was very red compared to the others.. they were more clear and milky looking). I assume they lose color the longer they are dead.. I have read that ph swings at night while the plants are "sleeping" can lead to the shrimp dying. I'm not sure if it causes immediate death or just harms them a lot. I will try testing the ph in the morning before the lights go on to see if it remains the same.

I'm feeding them algae wafers I got at my lfs and they are probably getting some of the fish flakes. Checked both for copper.

I've tried to do research online but I can't seem to find an answer that seems logical and fits my situation.

To sum it up:
I don't think its copper
I don't think its temp
I don't think its water quality
I don't think its the filtration

What I don't know:
What a shrimp that's molting and dead looks like(never seen one other than the ones I have)
I do not have a copper test kit
I do not have a water hardness test kit
If I just got a bad batch?

My guess:
Its either a bad batch of shrimp or maybe theres not enough minerals in the water for the shrimp to form a strong enough shell? Maybe theres very small ammonia spikes(undetectable?) killing them?
Maybe the water conditions in their previous tank were much different and they are adjusting(or should I say dying?).

I was thinking about moving the population the 10g where the amanos are but the ph is 7.6 in that tank and I don't want to risk more stress on them if they are already ill.
The remaining shrimp are actively swimming around and eating as normal, just like the others which seemed to have suddenly died.

Maybe I'm missing something, any advice or thoughts would be greatly appreciated. I just want some happy shrimp

Solution:

Well It seems that adding coral bones to the filter raised the ph and stabilized the kh and gh enough to maintain a healthy population. I also stopped feeding them and they seem to be fine just eating algae/moss/biofilm.

Had berried shrimp and now have babies. Started with 12 adults and 4 babies. 11/12 adults died and 4/4 babies lived to reach adulthood and have now produced at least 3 little guys(hard to tell I've got so much moss in there..)

Their home! :P
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Old 08-08-2012, 08:38 AM   #2
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Picture of a shrimp with molting problems from shrimpnow

What is the GH and KH? If it is a molting problem it can be because of low GH. The missing bands in the middle do look like a molting problem.

Too much protein also causes problems with molting, so maybe limit your feeding of the flakes and try more algae wafers or blanched veggies.

Have you seen any tetra's attacking shrimp? It seems like you have enough hiding places but if a tetra gets a hold of a weak shrimp during a molt it may end up being incomplete and them dying later.

It might be that they were stressed from shipping and since you got them right after the LFS got them in that they were just weak and didn't make the molt.

The longer the are dead the more milky they become. The go to a light pink and white color.
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Old 08-08-2012, 09:12 AM   #3
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Could be molting problems,
also...
How did you acclimate them? Plop and drop isn't really meant for shrimp because they are sensitive. Though sometimes it works and cherries are the hardiest. prolly not the problem.

The temps are a bit high at 81, I would try to lower that. The shrimps may be having a bacterial infection and bacteria multiplies the fastest in high temps.
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Old 08-08-2012, 11:35 AM   #4
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Temperature seems high but what seems the most probable is they were already stressed and got pushed over the limit from being moved around so much. I would go back to the lfs and ask them how that batch of shrimp did (how many arrived dead, how many died at the lfs etc.) You could also test the water that the shrimp come in next time and ask or test the water of the tank at the lfs. I always ask questions and always test the water they are in vs the water in my tank. Does lfs have a guarantee on shrimps?
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Old 08-08-2012, 02:29 PM   #5
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Points of focus:

High temps - keep temps below 77. 78 above will stress these dwarf shrimp to the point of death.

Calcium deficiency - lack of calcium in the diet and tank coupled with changing tds will force a fatal failed molt. spinach and calcium enriched shrimp foods and pellets work. Adding calcium clay into the water (and substrate) would also supplement it as it would permeate through their shells. a break in the back behind the Caraspaceis often is a sign of a failed molt.

Low GH - raise between 4 and 14ppm if unaccounted for.

Low PH - Neos do far better in more neutral water IME. remember that PH may fluxuate and the Neo range for PH is 6.4-7.6... better to be a tad higher than where your water is unless you are keeping caridinas in the same tank.
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Old 08-08-2012, 08:21 PM   #6
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Thanks for the info guys. I'm going to try getting the temp a little lower and I'm also going to pick up a kh test kit. Did the ph test this morning and it read the same as during the day so I don't think my ph is fluctuating.

Are there any simple and safe ways to get calcium accessible to the shrimp? I heard you can use small pieces of cuddle fish bone which is normally for birds. Other than the clay/shrimp food etc.

At work hoping I don't come home to more dead ones :0

Ill have the gh and kh info later.
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Old 08-08-2012, 08:27 PM   #7
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Focus on GH. That seems to me to be the reason for the molting problems assuming you aren't aware of GH yet.
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Old 08-08-2012, 08:30 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pejerrey View Post
Focus on GH. That seems to me to be the reason for the molting problems assuming you aren't aware of GH yet.
Is gh general hardness? Ill keep that in mind but will pick up both kits anyway.
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Old 08-08-2012, 08:30 PM   #9
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Oh, and make sure you take a look at the stickie for shrimp FAQ, very helpful info.
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Old 08-08-2012, 08:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theericafish View Post
Is gh general hardness? Ill keep that in mind but will pick up both kits anyway.
Get a GH booster also right away. Like fluval shrimp stratum, Seachem equilibrium, mosura mineral plus, shirakura ca+, etc.
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Old 08-08-2012, 08:34 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pejerrey View Post
Get a GH booster also right away. Like fluval shrimp stratum, Seachem equilibrium, mosura mineral plus, shirakura ca+, etc.
Thanks I'll look for those aswell.
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Old 08-09-2012, 12:54 AM   #12
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Kh was yellow on the first drop and the gh was 5. Noticing a brown algae bloom in the tank also. So 1/0 kh 5gh. Gonna get some products to save these guys and hope its not too late. According to the chart it looks like they should both be at 8 to 12 drops. :0
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Old 08-09-2012, 01:56 AM   #13
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I'm at the lfs now I found seachem equilibrium. What's good for the kh?
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Old 08-09-2012, 01:59 AM   #14
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That is to adjust your GH up for them to molt.
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Old 08-09-2012, 02:01 AM   #15
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Equilibrium also has some traces that are good for your plants and harmless to neocardinias shrimp.
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