NL Microswords, Creeping Jenny. Issues!

[Trickerie]

Hey All,

I'm wondering if anyone has a possible solution to these issues. My narrow leaf microswords are browning and curling at the tips. Some of the runners are doing the same, others are not.

Also, my creeping jenny is getting a lot of "transparent" type spots on the leaves.

I dose PPS Pro every day, and have soil with a cap. I have DIY CO2 (soon to be pressurized when regulator arrives).

Here are some pictures:

[Wasserpest]

Yup, they are dying.

What do you have for lighting? What is the kH/pH? Water temperature? Are there any fish/shrimp in the tank?

[Trickerie]

KH: 2d
GH: 5d
PH: 7
Temp: 82-84F during the hottest time of the day

Lighting: Finnex Ray 2 24" and 1 CoraLife t5NO dual 6700k

25 gallon (24x13x19), stocked with black skirt tetra, bleeding heart tetra, serpae tetra, blue ram, cories and otos

Not sure what the problem is here :|

[Complexity]

The plants are covered in algae, too. Things look like they're really out of balance. It looks like some BBA in the pics which indicates low or fluctuating CO2. How long before your pressurized CO2 arrives? Has it already been ordered or is it something planned for the future?

Can you get a full tank shot? I'd like to see the overall plant mass and tank condition. Also, what other plants are in the tank and how are they doing? How long has this tank been running?

[Trickerie]

Originally Posted by Complexity

The plants are covered in algae, too. Things look like they're really out of balance. It looks like some BBA in the pics which indicates low or fluctuating CO2. How long before your pressurized CO2 arrives? Has it already been ordered or is it something planned for the future?

Can you get a full tank shot? I'd like to see the overall plant mass and tank condition. Also, what other plants are in the tank and how are they doing? How long has this tank been running?

Its in the mail, I have the tank and everything else, I'm just waiting for the regulator to arrive tomorrow.

My creeping jenny always gets particles on it, I try to get as much flow as I can, but it always seems to catch stuff. I dont visibly see any BBA. The first shot of the swords, all of those white/greenish particles are actually an algae wafer my cory decided to destroy right when I was taking the photo lol. I assumed most of the "stuff" on the creeping jenny was from lack of proper flow. I waft it off often, but it always settles back on to it. I need another koralia nano I guess. As for a full tank shot, here ya go:

[Complexity]

Thanks for the full tank shot. That gives a much better picture.

Since the overall plant growth is looking good, you're not having algae problems, and you're on top of things in regards to lighting, ferts, and all, I think this may be primarily a CO2 issue.

I know when I stopped dosing CO2 in my 75g, I lost my creeping jenny. Based on that, I believe the plant requires CO2. The question is whether it's getting what it needs with the current DIY setup. Possibly not.

Since your pressurized CO2 setup is already on its way, I'd not make any big changes right now. Get that setup and adjusted. Trim off any dead/dying parts of the plants. And then let's see if the plants perk up. Also watch the flow in the tank to be sure the CO2 is getting dispersed throughout the entire tank.

I suspect you may have already solved your problem and just have to wait for it to arrive in the mail. Have fun when it arrives! You'll love pressurized CO2!

[Trickerie]

A few concerns Ive had. I didnt know any better when I first planted the micro swords, and planted them as a clump after taking the rock wool off. Is it possible they need to be uprooted, chopped up and replanted? Since I have a dirt substrate I really want to avoid this, but can do it if its necessary.

Also, as you can see, my swords are HUGE! They started off very small, about the size of my hand. Is it possible they are just sucking up so many nutrients they arent leaving enough for the rest of my plants?

[Zefrik]

Originally Posted by Trickerie

A few concerns Ive had. I didnt know any better when I first planted the micro swords, and planted them as a clump after taking the rock wool off. Is it possible they need to be uprooted, chopped up and replanted? Since I have a dirt substrate I really want to avoid this, but can do it if its necessary.

Also, as you can see, my swords are HUGE! They started off very small, about the size of my hand. Is it possible they are just sucking up so many nutrients they arent leaving enough for the rest of my plants?

I have never had luck with my micro sword. If it is bunched up it gets all dirty, and if it is spread out it doesn't seem to grow and looks scraggly.

[Complexity]

My understanding with microsword is that it's best to plant it as separate sprigs. That allows each plant space to get plenty of light and to grow in all directions until all the sprigs finally meet in the middle.

The swords are going to take over the tank no matter what you do so they're going to have to be removed at some point. The only way I know of to keep them in any kind of control isn't what you'd want -- it's pulling them up, removing the largest/oldest leaves, and root pruning. Not fun in a dirt substrate with a cap. So regardless of how they may be taking up the nutrients, you're going to have to bite the bullet at some point and get rid of them. I couldn't keep a sword in my 75g because they grow so large; there's no way you can keep them in the tank you have.

But to answer your question... I don't know! LOL! It's possible the swords are taking up the nutrients. But I don't think nutrient deficiencies cause plant melt (turning transparent and turning into mush). Usually, you'd see yellowing or dark spots or holes in the leaves with nutrient deficiencies. I think the plants are actually dying which is why I'm thinking they aren't able to grow with the amount of CO2 they're getting.

Hopefully others will come along and offer their thoughts. Maybe there's another explanation that I don't know.

[Wasserpest]

That full tank shot helps... if there are just a few plants doing badly, I say compost them and get some different ones.

I don't think it's the lack of CO2, although it could play a part of it.

I had great success with L. nummularia in extremely low tech tanks, with NO CO2 and barely any light. The water was hard and - perhaps important - temperatures were very low.

84 degrees might be pushing it for some plants. If supplied with sufficient CO2 and nutrients they might still do well, but if CO2 is borderline, and perhaps there is some or another nutrient a bit tight they might get affected. L.n. is a plant that grow best in colder waters.

The microsword might also be shaded by the bigger plants. Hard to tell from a 2-dimensional picture. Like Vicky suggested, pull them apart and plant them, small sections at a time. They are root feeders and letting them dangle in the water column will damage them over time (*in suboptimal conditions*)

[Trickerie]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I'm seriously thinking of just trashing the micro swords. They just look worse by the day. Maybe a replant is necessary, but I'm not sure. Got my regulator today, so pressurized CO2 is imminent

[Complexity]

Originally Posted by Wasserpest

84 degrees might be pushing it for some plants. If supplied with sufficient CO2 and nutrients they might still do well, but if CO2 is borderline, and perhaps there is some or another nutrient a bit tight they might get affected. L.n. is a plant that grow best in colder waters.

Didn't know this about the temps. My tanks tend to run hot, generally 80-82. So that might explain why my creeping jenny didn't survive once the CO2 and ferts stopped. They may have helped support the plant in the warmer water than it normally needs, so without it, it was just too much for the plant to continue.

Oh, and congrats on the arrival of the CO2! The fun has just begun!

[Trickerie]

I also did not know this about the plant. All recommended temperature ranges I've been seeing after looking it up says creeping jenny thrives in mid 70's. My water is no where close to that lol. If it gets any worse I guess I'll just remove it.

Edit: I wonder how it would do in a bare bottom tank thats dosed with ferts, for floaters, but no co2? Its my ACF's tank. They are cold water frogs and I keep it at the low 70's with a giant fan... Hmmmm.

[Wasserpest]

It won't mind the low temperatures, as long as there are some nutrients in the water column it is definitely worth a try!

(I have some growing in/around my pond, and it survives freezing temps).

[TwoTacoCombo]

I ordered 3 pots of micro swords from an online site. They sent me two narrow leafs, and one broad leaf. I didn't want to mix the two, so I put them on separate sides of the tank. The narrow leafs went in as one big clump. I didn't separate the runners, just straightened them out and put them in the substrate. The broad leaf didn't come out of the rockwool without a fight, so it went into the tank in about 1" strings. The narrowleafs are growing well and sending out new runners. The broadleaf won't stay parked in the @()&!@)(#&*!@# substrate. Every day I come home to find at least 2 strands floating. The leaves are far more buoyant than what the scraggly little roots can overcome. For sanity's sake, unless you have little flow and no catfish in that tank, plant them in as big of a clump as you can to keep them out of frogbit territory.