Frank's Planted Tank How-To Mini Novel - The Mini S Returns! New Layout - Page 25
Planted Tank Forums
Your Tanks Image Hosting *Tank Tracker * Plant Profiles Fish Profiles Planted Tank Guide Photo Gallery Articles

Go Back   The Planted Tank Forum > General Planted Tank Forums > Planted Nano Tanks


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-06-2012, 06:51 PM   #361
Francis Xavier
Planted Tank Jedi
 
PTrader: (24/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 1,805
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc7 View Post
Interesting thread so far. I like the ADA NA style though can't say I've attempted it. Someday I hope to also get a nano rimless.

Is there much remaining to do with this tank besides let it spread, and continue trimming?

How long from "completion" of the scape would you estimate it is? Also - is there a longevity of a scape like this where runners etc keep it from being manageable, or would you say once the carpet finishes filling in you could trim this and keep it looking like its current state for an indefinite period of time?

Sent from my BlackBerry 9650 using Tapatalk
At this point the name of the game with the aquarium, especially once it hits next week (when weekly water change begins and just top offs in between), is to 'sculpt,' the layout and maintain parameters.

There is absolutely nothing indefinite about any planted tank - so I do not believe you could keep this going ad infinitum. However, the length of time it'll last is a precise measurement between: When the final picture is reached and when I tire of looking at the layout / want to do something else.

Realistically, you could keep the aqua soil itself going for a few years if you did proper maintenance on it, provided you aren't constantly uprooting, and supplementing root tabs like Multi & Iron Bottom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhg is my plant View Post
I like it! so nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you!
Francis Xavier is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-07-2012, 05:29 AM   #362
Michiba54
Planted Member
 
Michiba54's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 191
Default

Hi Frank, I've seen you talk about doing w/c once a day for the first month a few times an I was wondering if this was necessary for tanks that have already been established (cycled, but never planted) or is it just for newly set up tanks?

Thanks~
Michiba54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2012, 05:59 AM   #363
FlyingHellFish
Wannabe Guru
 
FlyingHellFish's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,919
Default

Great growth Frank, your HC Cuba is already spreading faster than mine.

So I took your advice and added K and Iron, I still have the brown/burnt leaf while some of the colour on the other stems are a lush green.

Any ideas about HC Cuba's brown/burnt tip? Growth is better, yet the colour is not.
FlyingHellFish is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2012, 06:47 AM   #364
plantbrain
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (256/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,406
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Xavier View Post
The aquarium is most vulnerable to algae in the first month, the first week especially. This is why we focus so much on getting started right the first time. Most people fail with their planted tank within the first month because of this curve.

Diatom Algae has appeared in the first week.

This diatom is called Melosira, pretty common filamentous diatom, also a fav food of shrimp and many other inverts, etc.

Does not last long.

One thing the SFBAAPS agreed upon about 15 years ago was you cannot over do water changes. You may not need them, but they do not hurt.
You might not need to sweep the house daily, but the place will be clean if you do.
__________________
Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2012, 09:15 AM   #365
roybot73
The Circumloctioner
 
roybot73's Avatar
 
PTrader: (37/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 1,332
Default

One thing I've noticed over the years is how often people seem to want to "rescape". It seems to me that a proper Nature Aquarium should be set up with longevity in mind and design. The more recent pictures of the display tanks at the Nature Aquarium Gallery in Niigata seem to reflect this ethos -- the same ones are still there that were there several years ago, and are looking better as time goes on.

Can you speak to this point?
__________________
roybot73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2012, 03:43 PM   #366
sewingalot
I ♥ BBA!
 
sewingalot's Avatar
 
PTrader: (112/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: WV
Posts: 12,768
Default

Moderator note:

Remember this is person's journal regardless if you feel about it. Please show the respect you'd like to see in your own journal. Whether or not we agree with Frank's ideas or delivery method should be discussed off his thread as it is becoming distracting for the readers that do want to follow along. The rude commentary by all parties need to stop here and now. Further posts will be removed and action will be taken. Feel free to start a new thread to debate the merits to the products, but let's not continue it here.
__________________
Without Algae, death of mankind would be inevitable.
sewingalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2012, 05:31 PM   #367
Francis Xavier
Planted Tank Jedi
 
PTrader: (24/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 1,805
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by roybot73 View Post
One thing I've noticed over the years is how often people seem to want to "rescape". It seems to me that a proper Nature Aquarium should be set up with longevity in mind and design. The more recent pictures of the display tanks at the Nature Aquarium Gallery in Niigata seem to reflect this ethos -- the same ones are still there that were there several years ago, and are looking better as time goes on.

Can you speak to this point?
Great question Roy,

The reality is that you should keep a layout going as long as you enjoy it. There are techniques to make sure the growing goes as long as possible. Ultimately there comes a time when the aquarium just needs to be reset, but that time can be years and years.

Here's my theory (and it's based on my experience, ADG experience and the combined threads here, seeing people's layouts over the years).

People rescape because of inexperience that leads to the layout just getting 'away,' from them: e.g. they "fail," due to inadequate growth or too much algae and frankly, it gets really discouraging.

Very rarely do I see people restart a tank out of being (more especially nano's) "tired," with their layout idea, more so just that it didn't work out for them (and this happened a lot at ADG too for the first year of the new space until I spent a whole year figuring out new techniques and water parameters to solve the issue.

So the result is that it is just easier and more cathartic to restart and try again. This is an admirable trait to learn from mistakes and keep on goin, but the same mistakes get repeated again and again and again.

This is why I focus so so much on getting people started right.

It's irrelevant what product is used as long as it does the job it needs to do. Are there differences? of course. But if you follow the principles and the methodology I've laid out before, then your success rate is guaranteed to go up at least 100-200% over your last layout.

What was the result of all my hard work in figuring out The Method at ADG?

The success rate of layouts went from 25% of every layout set up being successful to the exact vision we saw it to 100% of every layout reaching what we saw in our minds.

This is The Method I'm trying to share with everyone here - so that everyone can benefit from my hard-earned experience to catapult their ability to create awesome layouts.

So that you can have the layout you always dreamed of
Francis Xavier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2012, 05:38 PM   #368
Francis Xavier
Planted Tank Jedi
 
PTrader: (24/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 1,805
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michiba54 View Post
Hi Frank, I've seen you talk about doing w/c once a day for the first month a few times an I was wondering if this was necessary for tanks that have already been established (cycled, but never planted) or is it just for newly set up tanks?

Thanks~
Hello Michiba,

I would not recommend adding plants to a tank that never had them before - it would be much easier for you to start from scratch with a tank dedicated to plants and set up correct from there.

But if it was a planted tank that was already established you wouldn't have to do the 1 a day 1st week, every other day 2nd week, twice a week 3rd week, one a week afterwards. Though if you have significant algae issues I'd do at least 3 a week til the tank levels out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingHellFish View Post
Great growth Frank, your HC Cuba is already spreading faster than mine.

So I took your advice and added K and Iron, I still have the brown/burnt leaf while some of the colour on the other stems are a lush green.

Any ideas about HC Cuba's brown/burnt tip? Growth is better, yet the colour is not.
I would trim off any of the burnt growth and brown growth - use fine tipped scissors to do this function. New, green growth will replace it.

As long as new growth is vibrantly green, and the roots are white and healthy, you're good.
Francis Xavier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2012, 05:38 PM   #369
KH2PO4
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: N/A
Posts: 314
Default

How about the last quiz?
KH2PO4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2012, 07:30 PM   #370
Francis Xavier
Planted Tank Jedi
 
PTrader: (24/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 1,805
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KH2PO4 View Post
How about the last quiz?
Ah yes! here are the answers to the "quiz"

#1 Penac W added to boost the water hardness a bit to kH 2. (RODI)

#2 Moved lily pipe outflow to the back of the tank to manipulate circulation of Co2 in the tank to emphasize on the front more - the growth in front left Riccia was suffering a bit.

#3 Trimmed dwarf hair grass to the stub to eliminate emmersed growth.

#4 trimmed any remaining dead growth.
Francis Xavier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2012, 08:08 PM   #371
Francis Xavier
Planted Tank Jedi
 
PTrader: (24/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 1,805
Default

End of Week 3 update:

So, yesterday (April 6) was the end of the third week.

I did the full water change:



As well as removed via trimming any remaining dead growth. As you can see in the tank there's virtually 100% good, green, healthy growth going on everywhere.



Upon filling I added my ratio of Seachem Equilibrium + Penac W for water hardness on the RODI water. Now that I'm switching to once a week water changes + top offs, I can stabilize the system easily with these buffers in place.



Clear water 20 minutes later:



Did I mention how much I love E. Tennellus? I'm incredibly happy to see this runner because now I can continue to propagate the plant. The runner will be cut as soon as it starts to "bloom," since I can't really have another tennellus plant that far front.



Let's do some comparison:

Day 1 (planted) :



End of Week 1:



The bucket shot during week 1:



End of Week 2:



The bucket shot during week 2:



End of Week 3:



Week three bucket shot:




The routine now is 2 squirts Brighty K, 1 Squirt Green Brighty Step 1, 1 squirt Green Brighty Special Lights, 6 drops Green Bacter after water change.

Once a week water changes now.
Francis Xavier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2012, 10:16 PM   #372
frrok
Wannabe Guru
 
frrok's Avatar
 
PTrader: (10/100%)
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Rockaway Beach, NY
Posts: 1,487
Default

That's pretty amazing how much healthy growth in only three weeks time.
__________________
The Fraternity of Dirt #11
Wabi-kusa Pimp #6

25cm Cube

ADA MINI-M Journal

ADA MINI-M REDUX
frrok is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2012, 11:15 PM   #373
Francis Xavier
Planted Tank Jedi
 
PTrader: (24/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 1,805
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by frrok View Post
That's pretty amazing how much healthy growth in only three weeks time.
Thank you for your kind words, Frrok.

It's taken me years now to arrive at the success formula to get that to grow like that, 100% of the time without exception.

This is the formula I now try to spread to everyone I can.

Beforehand, maybe 1 in 4 layouts would grow to maturity the way they were originally envisioned. Now that success ratio is 4 for 4.

Some Mistakes I may have made:

1. I believe I may have trimmed the Riccia too early - it appears to be doing some pretty weird things in terms of growth. Lots of splitting and rather than being straight up, it has bend and curves to it.

Either way, I'm on a quest to obtain Riccia from Japan, this type grows profoundly differently than the type we have in America

2. Adding the Microsword originally was a mistake. One of the reasons for that is it meant I had 6 plant varieties, instead of 5. Always stick to odd numbers.

3. I dosed Penac W directly, rather than pre-mixing it in a small cup, so I got some Penac white powder stuck in the substrate on the front glass. A noob mistake that I had already learned once and promptly ignored.
Francis Xavier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2012, 12:07 AM   #374
Francis Xavier
Planted Tank Jedi
 
PTrader: (24/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 1,805
Default

Since I've got some time in my schedule right now, I figure this is a good time to go in depth a little into the Principles of The Method.

Let's start at Principle One. All organisms are Malthusian in nature. They will grow and invade to the very limits their environment will permit them.

Unlocking the understanding to this method is key for your success.

What is Malthusian? Malthusian means that a population will expand to the very limits that it's environment will allow it.

Let's dial back the clock to a high school biology experiment (you probably came across this during the section on genetics due to their fast rate of duplication) for illustration:

Fruit Fly eggs are placed in a vial with about half the container filled with food.

The initial eggs will hatch in the land of plenty and immediately begin to reproduce in their new environment.

Each female will choose a mate, lay eggs and the second generation is born. Then the second generation will repeat the pattern and produce the third generation, (likely with mixing of generations, but let's keep it simple) and so on and so forth.

Now, as generations are produced, the food supply begins to go from bountiful to steadily declining as the higher and higher rate of population begins to inhabit the same space and same declining food source.

There are a few distinct points here in population relative to resources (food), space is nearly irrelevant:

1. Too Much Food, Too Few Flies

2. Food Source Availability = Fruit Fly Population (balanced, sustainable as long as the rate of death = rate of birth and the supply of food is maintained at this same level).

3. Too Little Food, Too Many Flies = the population begins massive die off, food source begins a rapid decline.

4. No Food, Too many flies = the food resource has been rapidly depleted, leaving an over abundance of flies, which now feast on their dead brethren to attempt to live.

5. The ecosystem has collapsed and all of the fruit flies are dead. Apocalypse.

What this means is, organisms will continue their bid for survival as long as possible, using up as much resource as possible, and can only sustain their growth to the extent to which available resources (food, nutrients, etc) equals sustainable population.

Let's apply this to the planted aquarium:

Micro-organisms: Micro organisms will grow, such as those bacteria necessary for the Nitrogen Cycle, to the extent to which Ammonia is available, then Nitrite, and so on.

This also applies to other beneficial bacteria which feed on other by-processes of plant and animal waste products, so on and so forth.

Bacteria act as the purifying agent for the aquarium, it is their primary role to take toxic substances and turn them into live-able waste (of bacteria) products, which are then fed on by other bacteria or plants, etc.

When Bacteria rapidly expand to the maximum limits of the environment, they take up all of the excess available, and will grow to approximately that level.

So an aquarium with aqua soil leaching ammonia, will have an inherently higher level of nitrogen cycle bacteria than another aquarium without aqua soil.

Algae: Algae tend to grow most prolifically in the presence of Ammonium in the water (which is a reason to want to cycle your aquarium as quickly as humanly possible), they also occur when imbalances occur.

For example, BBA will appear when there is a lack of Co2 and an abundance of other nutrients, which the plants cannot grow to support without the proper level of Co2. (Principle #2 is the Law of Minimums, so if there is a lack of Co2 and an abundance of fertilizers, it paves the way for nuisances like BBA, because all available Co2 is used, and there is an excess of other nutrients which are not being used by plants or micro-organisms).

Why Principle #1 is important to algae growth

Algae is like the fruit fly. They are relatively simple organisms and occupy a space on the evolutionary tree somewhere between super-simple micro-organisms and complex plants.

Algae also replicates quickly, invasively, and aggressively.

A small amount of algae on day one, if left alone, could be a massive outbreak by day 3.

Immediate action is required to eliminate these pests before they become huge problems.

This is huge, because The number one reason why people give up, is because of too much algae.

Plants as the example:

The best plants for aquascaping tend to be aquatic weeds. These guys can be pretty invasive and they will strive to cover as much ground, as quickly as possible over all the other competition.

A plant will grow and grow and grow and grow until it cannot grow anymore, even past the point of "healthy" growth, it'll continue to live on with half-dead growth going forward.

Let's evaluate Hair Grass:

spreads via runners and heavy root systems which expand out in straight lines across the substrate. The runners pop up as many hair grass nodes as possible and just keep going before filling in totally.

Hair grasses' strategy for choking out other plants is to have a root system so thick that nothing else can really compete on a root-level for nutrient uptake.

Let's evaluate Glossostigma

Glosso takes a similar approach, it will go up, of course, but it also tries to cover as much ground as possible via runners that go straight out from it's nodes.

Glosso's invasive strategy is to just cover real estate as quickly as possible, and will do so even if it's growing in relatively thinly across the substrate. It'll then double back and start filling in from other runners going in opposite directions. Glosso mainly tries to uptake Co2 and "block" other plants via lots of thin growth in real estate.

Hemianthus Callicthroides:

HC on the other hand, grows in "zig-zags," it too, tries to cover as much real estate as possible, as quickly as possible, but rather than go wide and thin as quickly as possible, it "mounds" in one spot as quickly as possible while sending out runners that expand the territory inch by inch, which then mound and repeat the pattern.

HC will completely block the growth of other plants by simply making an impenetrable mound fortress. As an experiment, try placing a few sprigs of hair grass in the middle of a mound of HC, and another sprig away from the mound.

The hairgrass away from the mound will spread quickly, while the hairgrass in the mound will slowly die or just stay steady with it's few nodes.

Marsilea Minuta

Marsilea is probably the most vulnerable carpet out of the ones listed here.

It will grow out in really really really straight lines across the substrate, unlike glosso it doesn't have a huge tendency to eventually double back. So it just keeps going straight out in one direction. This is a plant that when you start with this and another type you need to just plant a ratio of like 10 to 1 marsilea to other.

Riccia

Riccia doesn't spread by roots - so it's strategy for take over is to completely and utterly grow as quickly as humanly possible and 'detach,' and populate as many other areas in the aquarium as possible.

It's strategy for winning the nutrient war is pure volume intake of nutrients and, when floating, to block out the light resources of the other plants.

Consequently, because it has no roots, other plants, which grow in with Riccia have a much better chance of survival and rapid growth than others.

These are just a few examples of the Malthusian nature of all of the organisms in the planted aquarium.
Francis Xavier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2012, 12:58 AM   #375
plantbrain
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (256/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,406
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Xavier View Post
Trimmed dwarf hair grass to the stub to eliminate emmersed growth.[/URL]

#4 trimmed any remaining dead growth.
*IME, hair grass emergent growth always gets algae and is sacrificed by the plant anyway, this should be standard fair for conversion to submersed growth.
__________________
Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
francis wazeter, francis xavier, frank wazeter, nature aquarium, planted tank how to

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Planted Tank LLC 2012