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Old 04-05-2012, 10:17 PM   #346
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That was the most divisive way to unite the hobby that I've ever seen.
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Old 04-05-2012, 10:38 PM   #347
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And now on to our regularly scheduled program. Thank you!
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:07 PM   #348
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And now on to our regularly scheduled program. Thank you!
Yes, please!

@topic: That was probably the most accurate thing I've seen posted in a while. Bravo.
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:49 PM   #349
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But he's not.
I agree, I do not see it and I'd bite an ear off... if so.
They are so chewy
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Old 04-06-2012, 12:58 AM   #350
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If you've learned nothing else, or simply wish me to die a horrible fate, at least take advantage of me in this gem to show me what's what. This may be the most important post in the hobby I've ever made, so read it carefully:

Unfortunately, there has been a vital breakdown in communication. The frame of posting I chose was very specific. It had everything to do with attacking conventional thought.

The assumption, for better or worse, is that by saying the other methods are invalid, that the ADA method is the only method to choose.

This is not the case.

Every common word we use to describe a method - is complete B.S. That would include calling it the "ADA" method.

I use only one method. The one that most successfully grows plants. I also have a great deal of useless expertise in "methods," that do not work.

The framing was an attack on every supposed method. We are all looking for the plant magic bullet. This one method underlies everything as the very foundation.

This may seem like Renegade thinking, but it's the real deal.

Let's summarize (let me again make this clear, there has not, and will not, be any attacks against individuals):

The so-called "ADA" method is B.S.: there's no special, magic ADA juice. There's no automatic-success mechanism with ADA. The only thing that matters is application, which is entirely up to the individual.

The "high-tech" method is B.S.: that's just focusing on the equipment - not the method. Focus on equipment does not equate to growing plants.

The "low-tech" method is B.S.
: By no means does equipment limit your ability to greatly create an awesome layout. Equipment is a tool to "level the learning curve."

The "NPT" method is B.S.: while it focuses more on the theory of methodology, if you are doing it out of necessity - then follow the "true method," if you are doing it out of interest in experimentation - it would be more accurate to call it a style.

Okay, so now you might be really angry at me for saying that your preferred "method," is B.S.

I say these methods are all B.S. for one reason, which has come via a lot of pain and suffering, observation and ultimately experience.

It has come from spending a lot of time banging my head against a wall in the quest to take things to the next level. To master the planted tank.

It is an inherently emotional endeavor, and requires two things: stirred passions and dedication.

That conclusion is easy to say now, hard to see before you arrive at it;

There is only one method. The Method. And it has nothing to do with equipment, brands or limitation. It has everything to do with understanding.

The Principles of The Method:

1.
All organisms are Malthusian in nature. They will grow and invade to the very limits their environment will permit them.

2. Organisms can only grow and duplicate to the extent that the least common denominator is available. E.G. The resource that there is the least of, is the extent to which a plant, bacterium, etc will grow.

3. Everything is cyclical. Everything is utilized in concert to grow and ultimately be recycled. Molecules, minerals and nutrients are taken in and used by organisms, organisms feed other organisms, and the waste product of those organisms feed yet other organisms.
4. The purity of the environment is directly proportionate to how it will grow. The more "x-factors," and toxins you have, the less successful you will be.

5. It is the balance of all these factors that leads to ultimate success. The smallest of details matters.

The Techniques of The Method:

1.
Purity of water. Because our aquariums have a finite amount of water immediately available, we must 'refresh,' the water source as frequently as is possible.

2. Supply in relative abundance all of the factors that lead to proper growth of bacteria, plants and fish. Supply only the proper levels relative to the aquarium's rate of growth.

3.
Trim vigorously - trimming enables new growth to take the place of the old.

4. Daily attention - if you have the time to make a post, you have the time to give a quick check for anything running amok in your tank too.

The Mindset of The Method:

1.
Cultivation and care for the planted aquarium (even the smallest microorganisms) is an enjoyable task, something that's look forward too. There is something irreplaceable in the appearance of a balanced aquarium.

2. Vicious, quick and precise attack on anything that threatens the balance of the aquarium.

3. Constantly seeking new ways to learn and improve. Visualizes success with the aquarium.


Following this methodology, this mindset, means that all others are irrelevant. Because they don't matter - they are parameters set by equipment and predefined 'successes,' rather than the aquascape and the health of the system at large.

This means that, following the principles:

A "low-tech," tank can easily trump any "high-tech," tank.

The "high-tech" tank is irrelevant because it only describes equipment.

The NPT is just a partial application of the whole picture.

The "ADA" method is just a series of techniques and quality brand tools to 'enhance,' The Method.

E.I. Method is only a fertilizer method. It's based on and a part of The Method, just like ADA. They are more similar than different.


I know the path to this point has been a bit controversial. But I hope by now that you've found the value in taking this path, and why this path was taken to arrive at this destination. Emotional energy, getting attention, loud and clear, is an important part in true understanding.

Unfortunately, Pain is a greater motivator than pleasure.

Now this, this is a post I can enjoy reading, your idea is interesting. If I am understanding this, your hypothesis is that we should focus on cultivating a state of mind where maintenance is the most enjoyable part of keeping your tank? Once we have that, the rest takes care of itself? Cultivate your mind, and your plants will follow.

Please tell us more of this idea. I don't want to derail your thread and I was not attacking you personally. However please phrase things differently. When people use generalizations and absolute statements especially in a negative or dismissive manner they come across as condescending.

I am going to delete my post where I called out specific examples as that was out of line on my part. However, I stand by my point in my original post. I think it would be a service to the board if you re-framed some of the more dismissive and negative statements from your previous posts in a more positive way. That way you're not bad mouthing other vendors and alienating those with only a casual interest in the hobby.
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Old 04-06-2012, 02:53 AM   #351
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That way you're not bad mouthing other vendors and alienating those with only a casual interest in the hobby.
... But he never did that.
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Old 04-06-2012, 03:38 AM   #352
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However please phrase things differently. When people use generalizations and absolute statements especially in a negative or dismissive manner they come across as condescending.
...
I think it would be a service to the board if you re-framed some of the more dismissive and negative statements from your previous posts in a more positive way.
I respect your opinion and interpretation of what was said, but I read everything very differently. I have seen nothing but helpful advice from someone who has a genuine passion for this and helping other people advance, too. I almost reread this entire thread because I must have missed something big even though I was up to speed. Even after reposting all those quotes I still don't understand what the issue is. There was nothing problematic about anything that was said. It wasn't "my way or the highway or else you suck" but rather "hey I've made my share of mistakes, so save yourself the trouble and try this because it works, at least for me."

Nobody can be victimized by this thread unless they chose to be, and even then it will be their own doing.
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Old 04-06-2012, 03:42 AM   #353
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This is the tank I had to sell:


My housemate's ignorance assumed that it will be too much water and too much energy to have a third tank, even if I buy the water at the store and have a kw meter to pay for what I use with the tanks separate. I'm keeping the old 30gal and the nano CRS tank.

Sorry to hijack this thread again.
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Old 04-06-2012, 03:52 AM   #354
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Unfortunately, Pain is a greater motivator than pleasure.
The right amount of pain under control it's a very unique and addicting additive to magnify pleasure .... (the learning curve, when you are aware and enjoying the process)
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:43 AM   #355
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Cultivate your mind, and your plants will follow.

Please tell us more of this idea. I don't want to derail your thread and I was not attacking you personally. However please phrase things differently. When people use generalizations and absolute statements especially in a negative or dismissive manner they come across as condescending.

I am going to delete my post where I called out specific examples as that was out of line on my part. However, I stand by my point in my original post. I think it would be a service to the board if you re-framed some of the more dismissive and negative statements from your previous posts in a more positive way. That way you're not bad mouthing other vendors and alienating those with only a casual interest in the hobby.
Our own assumptions can come across VERY differently on line as they might in person. Give them the same latitude and grain of salt that you yourself would be afforded, perhaps even more.

Some read one thing, another might take it personally.

If in doubt, simply ask Frank directly.
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:47 AM   #356
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Originally Posted by pejerrey View Post
This is the tank I had to sell:


My housemate's ignorance assumed that it will be too much water and too much energy to have a third tank, even if I buy the water at the store and have a kw meter to pay for what I use with the tanks separate. I'm keeping the old 30gal and the nano CRS tank.

Sorry to hijack this thread again.
The energy required is roughly 8-10$ a month at most, offer to pay that difference for the tank. I did this, but most liked the tanks so much and considered a part of the home/art, they would have none of that.

A ratty looking tank? Well, less likely. A nice ADA aesthetic? Much much more likely to get the non hobbyists approval. Maybe even a few converts.

Same with Bonsai, or music.
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:54 AM   #357
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Never knew there was so much politic in fish keeping. Why can't people just speak their mind, share their experiences and challenge the status quo.

We need more updates on that teaser tank you got, it looks promising.
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Old 04-06-2012, 01:52 PM   #358
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Great thread Frank.

Now let's see more pics
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Old 04-06-2012, 03:51 PM   #359
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We've gone over quite a bit of methodology and philosophy being the techniques lately, so it's time to get this show back on the rodeo with some-good-ole-fashioned technical details.

The Aquarium on April 4th (first water change of the week, week 3 = 2 water changes, 3 days apart)



Now, for the infamous bucket shot:



I post these bucket shots to illustrate examples, and to show first hand why water changes are done so frequently up front.

In case you don't want to search the thread for some of the older bucket shots, here's a picture from week 1 (daily water changes) :



So, compare the two side-by-side: first bucket shot is on the third week, for the first water change that week (first of two, 3 days apart).

The second bucket shot is the water change after day 3 on the first week with daily water changes.

The aquarium is most vulnerable to algae in the first month, the first week especially. This is why we focus so much on getting started right the first time. Most people fail with their planted tank within the first month because of this curve.

And the finished shot:



To Bring out a teaser of the 60-P in the ADG Gallery I'm working on:

Diatom Algae has appeared in the first week.



Don't Panic! This is an easy algae, and is no problem what so ever. Amano's devour this stuff. But we're not ready to add them yet, so airline tubing removal will hold us over in the mean time.



Mini-M, April 5th:





Apparently, I'm terrible at taking straight and non-blurry photos at 1:30 am.

Dosing: Green Brighty Step 1: 1 Squirt, Brighty K 1 squirt.

P.S. an insight that I've overlooked for a while: Nano tanks truly aren't for beginners. They are much more difficult to balance than larger water volumes. Take for example the 60-P vs. the Mini M. The 17 gallon aquarium is much easier to balance and has much less problems to deal with than the 5.5 gallon aquarium. Just a little food for thought.
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Old 04-06-2012, 04:05 PM   #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bannik View Post
Now this, this is a post I can enjoy reading, your idea is interesting. If I am understanding this, your hypothesis is that we should focus on cultivating a state of mind where maintenance is the most enjoyable part of keeping your tank? Once we have that, the rest takes care of itself? Cultivate your mind, and your plants will follow.

Please tell us more of this idea. I don't want to derail your thread and I was not attacking you personally.
The absolute focus needs to be cultivating that state of mind! We often get overwhelmed by the task of multiple water changes and diligent maintenance because we have the urge to set up more aquariums or larger aquariums than we can handle (a thing in which I've fallen victim as well).

But rather, if we can focus on one tank first, see it through to stability and fruition, then the passion to replicate that result naturally occurs. Otherwise we end up with multiple tanks, which all invariably go down the toilet and never kind of get to where we originally envisioned them to go. From there we get the idea that this is really hard, and a lot of effort and we create negative associations with maintenance routines (e.g. planted tanks are just this way...it can't be helped), rather than positive ones.

The ideal way to look at it is like this: the planted aquarium hobby is self-development with measurable, visual results through actions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pejerrey View Post
The right amount of pain under control it's a very unique and addicting additive to magnify pleasure .... (the learning curve, when you are aware and enjoying the process)
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingHellFish View Post
Never knew there was so much politic in fish keeping. Why can't people just speak their mind, share their experiences and challenge the status quo.

We need more updates on that teaser tank you got, it looks promising.
It's not so much politic, as it is a group of passionate people - when passions flair, it can be a bit heated at times!
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