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Old 04-01-2012, 04:06 AM   #301
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Hm....not sure what I can think of that causes cloudiness outside of bacterial bloom/substrate disturbance aside from GH booster...any hints? Also, is that some type of algae on that piece of riccia in the front or is it just a weird blending of lighting?

Also, you moved the intake/outflow and the diffuser.
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Old 04-01-2012, 06:08 AM   #302
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Hey, your tank is looking mighty good! Wish my HC was like that.

My first attempt at a carpet, things started off good. Then by the third/fourth week.

This is when I planted, March 10 - 12th



This is it now. March 31st



Problem: Small leaf growth, Brown, Burned Edges, Yellow, Lack of colour, Poor growth structure.

Advice taken: I added more K, trimmed most of the yellow / brown, up Co2 just a bit.

Stats: 30 ppm Light green PH drop checker, EI dosing, 23 watt 6500 K on a 6 gallon, with 42 LED light bar (Coverage is mainly the middle)

Any help will be appreciated.
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Old 04-01-2012, 06:19 AM   #303
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Bump up the amount of iron you add into the aquarium. Incrementally increase K, but do it a step at a time: at this juncture add more iron.

Is it old growth primarily yellow and brown?
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:11 AM   #304
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^ Hard to tell, I believe new and old are affected.

The leaf size are really small, I believe I might have too much light raining down on them.

Tank is a 6 gallon with a desktop lamp position 2 - 3 inches above the surface. Nitrate is about 5 - 10 ppm, I try not to let it go pass 15 ppm because I have some shrimp.

How much K and iron daily do I dose? I been doing 1/32 tsp of K daily, Seachem iron at 1 ml daily.

Maybe it's too much ferts and lights?
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:22 AM   #305
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Small leaves isn't a bad thing - many people strive for that.

The symptoms you describe are always a sign of nutrient deficiency, rather than too much.

The trick is you want to incrementally increase dosing so that you give the plants what they need and don't dose too much to get an algae outbreak.
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:43 AM   #306
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EDIT: I been seriously under dosing, I'll try out your suggestion.
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:01 PM   #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Xavier View Post
Quiz for today:

Can you spot everything that was done, why it was done and what my dosing is?

hmmm, let's see.

Intake is now at front left, outflow back left and diffuser is at back right. I'm gonna say h20 cloudiness is due to dosing some gh booster.
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Old 04-01-2012, 10:44 PM   #308
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Quote:
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Quiz for today:

Can you spot everything that was done, why it was done and what my dosing is?
Bacter 100 into water?
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Old 04-02-2012, 04:17 PM   #309
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Frank,
I absolutely love your threads. I will not go very far into this but I am a bit skeptical on all the additives as well. I don't want to say there is no benefit, I am not sure, but I know you don't need to use anything but a good substrate to get good results.

Now the only reason I bring this up is I feel you are seriously downplaying your commitment to maintenance and your routine. I mean this in a good way. Obviously, you are showing this in the thread, but it kind of gets diluted by all the other great info and explanations of your (and other people's) philosophies.

I bring this up because my first tanks, though lacking in many area's from a cost/technology perspective, look better than my tanks now. I attribute 100% of this due to my maintenance habits. I was in college when I started and always had more than enough time to do what was needed that day. Now I am a musician with serious lack of time, I often don't see my tank for up to a week at a time, or I am home all the time, one or the other. I can either go overboard on things or not touch things, not a good combo.

Not to say I have not been successful with some low tech tanks, when you set something up correctly to your needs, it's a lot easier. But it's going to be almost impossible if not entirely impossible to have an impeccable tank without being able to rectify problems as they come about, no matter what you do. I have even seen my tank turn around in a week when I am home and spend 5-10 min per day (max) when I am home for each of those days.



Again, I only bring this up because I know how much daily maintenance helps, compared to any other factor. I will go as far to say that diligence trumps knowledge (assuming you are trying to learn from mistakes). It has for me. Great thread and I only mean for these words to be taken complimentary
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Old 04-02-2012, 04:28 PM   #310
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Actually, I think daily diligence is the main point that Frank is trying to reinforce with this thread. He doesn't really rely so much on the additives as a magic fix-it-all, they're just another tool in his maintenance and dosing regimen. Most of his advice, e.g. consistent water changes, dosing, and filter clearning, dealing with algae sooner rather than later, taking note of the tanks needs and responding to that, isn't about magic ADA hickory smoke bacteria food, it's about just paying attention to your tank and enjoying it.
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Old 04-02-2012, 04:43 PM   #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dollface View Post
Actually, I think daily diligence is the main point that Frank is trying to reinforce with this thread. He doesn't really rely so much on the additives as a magic fix-it-all, they're just another tool in his maintenance and dosing regimen. Most of his advice, e.g. consistent water changes, dosing, and filter clearning, dealing with algae sooner rather than later, taking note of the tanks needs and responding to that, isn't about magic ADA hickory smoke bacteria food, it's about just paying attention to your tank and enjoying it.
Oh, I agree and that's why I made a point of saying how much he shows it. It just can get a bit diluted, as I said, with all the other info. I was not trying to imply that I felt Frank thought his additives were more important than other aspects of the tank (and I have read enough from Frank to know he sees no shortcuts). I also want to restate that I only meant what I was saying in the most complimentary of ways. I am seriously jealous of his ability to put in so much time into his tanks.

If I had time to get my hands wet even 2x as often, I know for a fact that my only high tech tank would be 4x better (or more). I realize that and now do more low tech tanks but I still haven't made my high tech stable enough for my lifestyle.
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:49 PM   #312
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In Regards to Lessons of the Planted Aquaria

Really, what it comes down to is that the majority have learned how to do things incorrectly from the start.

Most people focus on equipment. Equipment is intricately tied into the success of the planted tank. At the end of the day we need proper filtration, an aquarium, substrates and fertilizers. So, it's no wonder that people focus on that first.

The most common questions are: what filtration, what lighting, what co2 and so on.

If you are new, you've asked these questions recently. If you aren't, you've long since established your bias' one way or another. But the thing of it all is:

Everyone is focused on the 'what,' instead of the 'how.' People also haven't evaluated the 'who,' is using what techniques and which tools.

When our hobby is so incredibly linked to the 'what,' it is easy to see how a person focuses almost exclusively on 'what.' Frankly, you aren't drawing on a piece of paper where skill is immediately evident as the primary need. You can have the best pen in the world that does exactly as it says it does in the advertising, but if you can't draw, well, you can't draw, and it isn't the pen's fault.

The other issue with this focus on the 'what,' is that without really knowing any better, you aren't able to judge the difference between the 'what's.'

If your trimming techniques are improper and poorly managed or only done every few months, then there's no way for you to know what to look for in a pair of scissors, or when to use what type of scissor or how.

For example, I'm not a good golfer. I don't know golf techniques and I don't know the mechanics of each club. I know I need to get a ball into a hole on the other side of a really long grassy-knoll thing. I know that I use a driver to get it most of the way, and a putter to get it the rest of the way.

But I have no idea what each iron does, why it's used when to use it or anything. I'm just aimlessly hitting golf balls towards a target and 'hoping,' that I pick the right club.

Would you say that I'm in a position to give advice on what club to use and when? If you answer yes, please consider a psych evaluation.

I don't even know -how- to tell the difference between one or another.

Unfortunately, this focus on 'what,' leads to an inexperienced user base, providing feedback on equipment they haven't used, while using techniques that are easily among the worst ways to do something. Skepticism based or spread based on these parameters is nothing more than an uninformed opinion of the worst kind.

You wouldn't want to take advice from that person any more than you'd want to take my advice on what club to pick when you go golfing.

We like to say that there's many ways to skin the cat, that each special snow-flake is unique. And that somehow, when I'm new, and take the advice of someone who has kind-of-sort-of made something work mildly okay that I'm going to magically get a different result. They have a word for that: it's called insanity.

Let me use another example here on the predictability of technique and tools. Dollface started her aquarium following the same water change technique, the same quality of water (RODI), the same fertilization method, the same tools and the same substrate system.

What's the result? She's gotten exactly the same kinds of minor algae, the same growth rates relative to the amount she planted, and the same water clarity. Really, the only mistake she's made is not planting -enough- from the start. She could have started with double the plant mass and had much quicker growth. But we do know that the HC will start kickin' this week and start spreading.

What can be learned from that? All she has to do at this point is follow step-by-step with my journal and will know more or less what's going to come her way and how to deal with it.

That's powerful.
Similarly, if you do the same techniques as someone else, you are going to get their same result. So why on earth would you want to do the same methodology of relatively bland layouts and plant growth? Your result won't be any different!

There really aren't multiple ways to skin a cat here.

Every technique and method system is all based on the same overall way to grow and curate plants. They just do the job to varying levels of efficiency and effectiveness.

If you use eco-complete, you are essentially doing the same function as aqua soil, but the path you take is going to be infinitely more troublesome to get the same result. You could start with literal dirt in your tank: it will do the same function, but not as well and you'll introduce all sorts of weird stuff from the yard.

I'll continue this line of thought later, for now that should be enough food for thought. I would just say to reserve judgement until I post up the whole line of thought.
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Old 04-02-2012, 09:02 PM   #313
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[SIZE=3]
If you use eco-complete, you are essentially doing the same function as aqua soil, but the path you take is going to be infinitely more troublesome to get the same result.
Could you elaborate a bit more on this, i assume this is due to the fact that eco-complete is basically inert gravel? Reason i ask this, is i have a high tech tank set up with eco-complete, and the growth seems to be a bit sporadic to say the least. dosing e.i with weekly water changes for quite sometime and havnt been very satisfied with the results.

Also, and maybe i missed it, i would be interested on your techniques for setting a lighting schedule, and things you take into consideration when doing this. I have noticed in my own setups, that when i first plant a high light/c02 tank, i seem to get better results, meaning less algae, and more stability, with a shortened lighting period until the plants get rooted and begin to fill in, before increasing the lighting time, i assume this goes hand in hand with what you were previously saying, that plants don't take in as many nutrients until they are more established in the tank.

great thread btw!
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Old 04-02-2012, 09:45 PM   #314
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Could you elaborate a bit more on this, i assume this is due to the fact that eco-complete is basically inert gravel? Reason i ask this, is i have a high tech tank set up with eco-complete, and the growth seems to be a bit sporadic to say the least. dosing e.i with weekly water changes for quite sometime and havnt been very satisfied with the results.

Also, and maybe i missed it, i would be interested on your techniques for setting a lighting schedule, and things you take into consideration when doing this. I have noticed in my own setups, that when i first plant a high light/c02 tank, i seem to get better results, meaning less algae, and more stability, with a shortened lighting period until the plants get rooted and begin to fill in, before increasing the lighting time, i assume this goes hand in hand with what you were previously saying, that plants don't take in as many nutrients until they are more established in the tank.

great thread btw!
my 2 cents:
try root tabs. if your are doing EI water column dosing, then you have no nutrient problems in the water column. but you may see better growth (particularly from well rooted plants) if you use root tabs. i like root medic, but there are others (i have used flourish root tabs as well, and they arent bad).
i assume you have pressurized CO2?
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Old 04-03-2012, 02:27 AM   #315
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my 2 cents:
try root tabs. if your are doing EI water column dosing, then you have no nutrient problems in the water column. but you may see better growth (particularly from well rooted plants) if you use root tabs. i like root medic, but there are others (i have used flourish root tabs as well, and they arent bad).
i assume you have pressurized CO2?
Dumb question but, if you got a high CEC like flourite black, can't you just inject the diluted fertilizer into the substrate?
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