Major die off after 40% water change + flourish excel double dose - Page 2
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Old 07-31-2011, 05:19 AM   #16
kevmo911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nesopheus View Post
120ml for 120gallons, double the initial use dose.
Okay, we double-posted, so lemme go back to the last thing I just said - RE-READ YOUR EXCEL INSTRUCTIONS. Not your fault, we were writing at the same time. I just wanted to emphasize.

Whatever you do, based on whatever you've read, don't ever - EVER - add more than the "initial" dose that the bottle suggests.

You're the second person in the last several days who posted about a fish die-off following an Excel dose of 1mL/g. Do a search for Excel and Cories, and then decide whether or not it's coincidence.
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Old 07-31-2011, 04:57 PM   #17
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"I have to smile at the "cheap skate" comment. Perhaps I am poor yet still an avid aquarist, or perhaps I am a focused parent who only diverts a small portion of my money to my personal pursuits. Thankyou for the list of great products, when I create my dream aquarium I'll look into them.
I have two ladders attached two yeast canisters, plant growth is fantastic in this aquarium."

Lol it's ok, I smiled too because sometime I go the cheaper route myself!!!
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Old 07-31-2011, 05:16 PM   #18
nesopheus
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Originally Posted by keith1937 View Post
Thank you for answering all those questions it certainly helps.

It should all be washed once a month using the old tank water.

Carbon is an excellent product for collecting chemicals in a tank. BUT and a huge but it not only collects them it also stores them and when its full it slowly releases a cocktail back into the tank.

It is perfect to use after medications then only for 2-3 days then its a TOSS OUT.

It is not necessary in a tank unless you have just finished using medications.

It also absorbs plant additives.

Now we have several concerns here.

It looks like the tank is cycling and does not require a water change during that process unless using special plant media. Then a minimum of 30% weekly.

I prefer to do 2 30% weekly.

Because you are syphoning you are disturbing the good bacteria in the substrate while it is still Cycling.

That should not be a problem But the carbon could be removing it.


It is obviously still cycling

Nitrite should be "0"

Nitrate Should be below "10"

Have you run that program its most important?

If not or you have please post all the results.

I can see some problems there.

http://www.aqadvisor.com/

This will also help you reason being your fish might not be compatible or the tank is over loaded

Warning signs of "Cycling"

I hate to say it but what a mix who advised you to use all that.

In 45+years of fish keeping I have never heard or seen such a mix.

Sorry I would toss it all out and replace it with a good quality aquarium grade natural river stones 1-3mm at least 100mm deep this is best for healthy growing plants.

Creek rocks unless you know exactly what they are they could be causing problems, I did say 'Could"

Plants real that is excellent.

BUT with that substrate dont expect them all to grow.

I also notice you are not feeding them.

You are also not using a quality Bio-Starter like Seachem Stability.

For a beginner the Aquascape is excellent.

I can see many problems its the substrate depth and placement of a few plants because of what the could grow too if given the correct TLC

I think I have covered every thing, sorry if I seemed harsh but I would rather tell you the truth than sit back and not reply to you

Keith
Most helpfull, thank you for a frank unpresumtious response. I failed to mention Ammonia, nitrites and nitrates were negligable two weeks previous to aquapocalypse. I have also been using NutrafinCycle. It seems that I rushed into my first big tank and experienced a re-cycle possibly made worse with flourish excel overdose.

Taking another measurement on my substrate total 3" at front to 6" at the back. Gravel is probably on the large side but mixed with sand. I was going for a natural look, not sterile or uniform. Plant growth is excelent, never been better. I'll stick with my rocks and gravel for now, the tank is settling again.

Thank you every one.

"I am only an egg"
Micheal Valentine Smith, Stranger in a strange land
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Old 07-31-2011, 05:36 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevmo911 View Post
Okay, we double-posted, so lemme go back to the last thing I just said - RE-READ YOUR EXCEL INSTRUCTIONS. Not your fault, we were writing at the same time. I just wanted to emphasize.

Whatever you do, based on whatever you've read, don't ever - EVER - add more than the "initial" dose that the bottle suggests.

You're the second person in the last several days who posted about a fish die-off following an Excel dose of 1mL/g. Do a search for Excel and Cories, and then decide whether or not it's coincidence.
Lesson learned, poor fish.
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Old 07-31-2011, 08:45 PM   #20
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PH 6.8
Ammonia less than 0.6ppm
Nitrite less than 0.3mg/L
Nitrate 5mg/L

Lessons:
1) Over doses of flourish excel may kill your biological filters microorganisms.
2) Catfish are particularly sensitive to flourish excel.
3) Plecos grow too big and produce too much ammonia.
4) I need a better filter

Thank you for your advice. Seems as though I made it through a second cycle.
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Old 07-31-2011, 09:40 PM   #21
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Hello,

Where do you store the garden hose? They are sprayed inside with an antibacterial coating. If it's outside and water was stored in it since the previous use, the hot weather we've been having could have leached some of the chemicals inside garden hoses into the water that was sitting in it.

Other than that, I don't see anything wrong other than ammonia and nitrite. You've been doing this a very long time like myself and you seem to know what you're doing.

By the way, cycle = time it takes for bacteria to grow to convert ammonia into nitrate.
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Old 07-31-2011, 11:26 PM   #22
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Hello,

Where do you store the garden hose? They are sprayed inside with an antibacterial coating. If it's outside and water was stored in it since the previous use, the hot weather we've been having could have leached some of the chemicals inside garden hoses into the water that was sitting in it.

Other than that, I don't see anything wrong other than ammonia and nitrite. You've been doing this a very long time like myself and you seem to know what you're doing.

By the way, cycle = time it takes for bacteria to grow to convert ammonia into nitrate.
Hmmm... garden hose no good, will look into better tool. Thank you, could have had something to do with it. Nitrate and ammonia was the assassins tool, maybe flourish excel the assassin. Live and learn.
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Old 08-01-2011, 01:17 AM   #23
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Do you have city water? I ask because when I first got into the hobby 8 years ago I did a 50% wc on my tank thinking how great it would be for the fish. I took 50% of the water out of the tank and I immediately replaced it with city tap water, but I didn't dechlorinate it first. I simply poured the water into the tank and then I poured the dechlorinator into the tank. What a HUGE mistake! EVERY single fish in the tank (tetras) immediately crashed to the bottom of the tank. 2 fish flipped over and dropped dead instantly. I mean they literally flipped over and floated to the top dead. I was in utter shock. I didn't know that I was supposed to pour the dechlorinator into the tap water while it was still in the bucket. I thought it was ok to replace the water into the tank first and then add the dechlorinator afterwards. Live and learn, but I nearly wiped out my entire tank. I still feel terrible about it to this day.
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Old 08-21-2011, 11:21 PM   #24
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What are your thoughts on animal bone charcoal ? I've used it for 40 years as a friend of mine always said carbon was useless. I only have about 40# left from a 100# bag & don't see it for sale anywhere. Do you know if it's still available?
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:48 AM   #25
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@Keith: Thanks for sharing the list. I also think that it is a good idea and easy to fill in. Now I need a new chiller and I am not sure which one will fit my requirements best. I guess I am waiting until I find a cheap offer. Until this will happen some time in the future I will simply still use rental chillers in the mean time. This is the best option for bypassing the time until I will have my own new one.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:52 PM   #26
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Carbon WILL remove some impurities in the water - that is precisely why water filters use carbon to filter water.

Brita, Pure, Zero - they ALL use carbon as a major (and in some cases it's the ONLY thing they use really) part of their purification method. You can actually drill out a Brita filter and replace the carbon rather than buying new filters if you want to.

Not sure why folks in the aquarium hobby all a sudden came up with the idea that carbon doesn't do anything but remove tannins and meds (where IS that coming from anyway?). It also removes odors from water and also helps to polish the water.

Is it required? No. But it DOES do more than just remove color and meds.

It "...will remove/reduce many volatile organic chemicals (VOC), pesticides and herbicides, as well as chlorine, benzene, trihalomethane (THM) compounds, radon, solvents and hundreds of other man-made chemicals found in tap water. Some activated carbon filters are moderately effective at removing some, but not all, heavy metals."

I was lazy and grabbed the above blurb from here, but that is basically true. In fact other info on that page is of some interest to note in regard to carbon as well ... as it does also say what carbon filters will NOT remove as well, like inorganic contaminants/metals or sediment/particulate materials. http://www.home-water-purifiers-and-...ter-filter.php

So it does purify water ... and it can play a role in having clear, polished, odor free water. Yes, there are now other options like purigen, however, charcoal is inexpensive, easy to use and will forever remain an option for those that chose to use it.
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:03 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
Not sure why folks in the aquarium hobby all a sudden came up with the idea that carbon doesn't do anything but remove tannins and meds (where IS that coming from anyway?). It also removes odors from water and also helps to polish the water.
And once an idea is grabbed onto in this hobby, we neeeeeever let it go!
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Old 03-23-2012, 10:50 PM   #28
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My personal concern with activated carbon is making sure to change it frequently. It's a great purifier until you leave it in too long and all those things it was filtering reenter the tank in altered but still dangerous form.

Still, maybe running activated carbon for 2-3 days after a water change is a good idea....
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