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Old 03-22-2012, 02:34 PM   #136
Francis Xavier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drink_soy_sauce View Post
Frank, what are the advantages of that style (MINI P-2 i think?) of outflow? Tanks looking great, by the way!
The model used here is the Mini P-1 (10mm, Mini P-2 is 13mm), the smaller size is suitable for an ADA Mini-M or Mini S. The Mini P-2 suitable for a mini L, 45-F or 60-F. The primary advantage of the Mini P series is that it consolidates water flow into a strong stream. You can't see it in photos, but the push of the filter + the lily pipe is enough to bounce the water off the opposite corner of the tank, then to the opposite corner, then back to the intake without losing much momentum.

So flow goes origin (front left) - front right - back right - back left. This is important to know for co2 distribution, and is why I have the diffuser situated under the output. Another trick, to change co2 densities in the aquarium is to switch sides the co2 is on, which will affect plant growth rates and allow manipulation of how things grow.

A spray bar is terrible for flow because it distributes your flow over an even surface, so by the time the water is distributed among the spray bar it barely has enough energy to hit the other pane of glass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingHellFish View Post
I'll try that, thanks for the suggestion.
You should about double-triple your dosage of potassium. On day one double it, day two same as day one, day three same as day one, then on day four triple the dosage from the original, do that on day five, etc until you start seeing the plants recover. Just keep incrementally increasing your potassium until the problem is corrected. If you start getting some algae, dial it back down a little bit.

Being able to detect plant coloration is one of the tricks to knowing how much to dose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle_Aquarist View Post
Hey Frank! How you doing down there in TX?
Great Roy! How's GSAS & yourself doing? Texas will become very hot soon and I miss Seattle's soft water.

Quote:
Originally Posted by @marko@ View Post
i have green bacter (came free with some ADA stuff i bought), but never used it cuz i have no idea what it actually is. ive heard "bacteria cultures" and "bacteria food", but which bacteria and what form of food?
Green Bacter is a combination of dormant bacteria cultures and a type of mulm which is a food source for the beneficial bacteria. I don't know what names of the bacteria that are in there, but the primary ones are the bacteria directly responsible for the nitrogen cycle (ammonia - nitrite - nitrate etc.), the others are those which are synergistic with plant roots, etc.

It's used 1) to help cycle the aquarium quicker, 2) to help bacteria recover after water changes and filter cleanings (long periods of time, of up to 30 minutes with a filter turned off is disastrous to the beneficial bacteria)

Basically everything ADA sells is "caked," with beneficial bacteria: Bio Rio has it, Power Sand S has it, Bacter 100 is it, Green Bacter, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dollface View Post
P.S: I think the answer to #3 is that the cost difference was minimal for the results achieved.

P.P.S: I keep expecting there to be a multiple choice exam that we get graded on at the end of the week.

P.P.P.S: Oh god it's rubbing off on me.
This would be correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orchidman View Post
1. I want something beautiful and i want to create it. i enjoy dong maintenance and setting things up and such, and if it becomes a large burden, its not achieving the goals at hand. with school and volleyball after school everyday, sometimes im stretched for time, but i enjoy it and try to stay on schedule. and also i want my fish or shrimp to be happy and healthy.

2.hmm, not sure exactly how much ive spent, because most things where gradually added. what i paid for things currently being used in this tank, and what ive paid for things up until this point is different. what i paid for things being used right this second is probably only about $130 thats filter, co2, plants, and substrate. everything else being used ATM was given to me at one time or another.

as for budget, im a teenager, so im alwasy on a tight budget. right now i dont have any money to spend on it, except to keep things alive. im willing to spend a little bit on new filter media, but not much else other than things that NEED to be done now. once i save up some money, i will hopefully upgrade some stuff and replace plants that died before a major upgrade though.

3. could it be the skill and expertise of the creator?

ps. would it be better for me to pm you? so i dont junk up your thread? either way is fine for me, im just glad to get advice.
I'll tell you a secret: the biggest waste of money I made in the hobby was not doing it right the first time. It cost me about $1200 to make the mistake of the first tank you saw there, and everything was basically junk and didn't work anyway!

It's not too bad when you can budget out, I would give you priority right now to getting: Bio Rio (something you can take care of and keep for long periods of time) for sure, and for other suggestions I'm going to have to look at your journal again.

But the core lesson comes to this: if you want to master the planted tank and achieve what you want in creating something beautiful, with little maintenance time, then the most important thing you can do is listen, learn, ask questions and save money as much as you can to build up to buy things to do it right the first time. Rather than spending X on Y because it's cheap, then Y breaks then having to buy Z anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dollface View Post
Following previous threads of Franks, some of the most valuable content is from people asking questions like this. It's not clutter at all IMO.
Gold star!

P.S. I need coffee.

P.P.S. if you've found these techniques valuable, help share the information with new comers by linking back here in your own journals when you use my techniques!
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:42 PM   #137
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Coffee sounds great right about now...too bad my brewer is terrible. You have an email in your inbox chief. Also, how does the P1 outflow do for surface film or do you have to raise it like the regular lily pipes to see any removal of it? Also, how does the CO2 density thing work by changing the location of the diffuser? I thought it would be the same throughout as long as the current is dispersing it around the tank.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:46 PM   #138
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Thanks! I'll do that!!

is there a substitute i can use for the bio rio, maybe something cheaper and easier to get without having to worry about shipping? or would this we've an instance of "doing it right the first time" where nothing competes with bio rio?

what does tourmaline F do?i dont use any ADA additives. maybe there is something i can use instead? or would i be alright just not using either one when I clean my filter.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:28 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by freph View Post
Coffee sounds great right about now...too bad my brewer is terrible. You have an email in your inbox chief. Also, how does the P1 outflow do for surface film or do you have to raise it like the regular lily pipes to see any removal of it? Also, how does the CO2 density thing work by changing the location of the diffuser? I thought it would be the same throughout as long as the current is dispersing it around the tank.
I need to find a time to escape to recruit coffee beans.

Generally, with an eheim 2211, surface film isn't too much of an issue, however it does occur. There are two methods to solving this: one do a small daily water change even when you are past the 1 major water change a day week (basically at night you would lower the water level to the lily pipe's output surface). Two: you can raise the lily pipe at night by using essentially a chop stick to raise and suspend it (this is kind of the jury rig version and just something I do every now and again, not a real ADA solution).

The other solutions for aeration at night is to manually add an air pump / stone.

Honestly, I'm more a fan of the drain a little bit of water at night and fill in the morning. However, it usually isn't as big an issue in these small tanks due to size and volume.

Where the diffuser sits in the aquarium makes a massive difference to distribution effectiveness. For example in the 60-P at ADG, every 2 weeks we switch the side the diffuser and filtration are on, because the side OPPOSITE of the diffuser will grow thick and tall, while the side WITH the diffuser will stay shorter and not grow as quickly, due to how flow maneuvers co2 through the water before it's fully diffused.

So sometimes if you're experiencing problems with one side of the aquarium not fully growing like the other, simply switch where the diffuser and flow are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orchidman View Post
Thanks! I'll do that!!

is there a substitute i can use for the bio rio, maybe something cheaper and easier to get without having to worry about shipping? or would this we've an instance of "doing it right the first time" where nothing competes with bio rio?

what does tourmaline F do?i dont use any ADA additives. maybe there is something i can use instead? or would i be alright just not using either one when I clean my filter.
There are certainly alternatives to Bio Rio on the market: every major aquarium company produces a biological filtration media. However, I have found Bio Rio to be hands down the best in my experience, even over ehfi substrate (eheim's version, which is more expensive).

The reason is, from the get go Bio Rio has beneficial bacteria in a dormant state caked on it (e.g. quick start when you make the transition without sabotaging your biological much), has the highest microscopic surface area on it for biological, and basically has a little nutrients with it (it's a bit earthy).

If you take care of Bio Rio, you'll be able to use it for years to come. Just rinse it in aquarium water on a regular basis and it will last and last and last. Not a bad buy for $10 for 1l and $20 for 2l. So if you're in it for the long haul, invest in Bio Rio and a netting material to hold it together (i'll find a link somewhere).

Tourmaline F is a high quality water polisher and is a bit more perishable than Bio Rio, so if the choice was Tourmaline OR Bio Rio, go with Bio Rio, although shipping dollars is about the same when you get the two together. Tourmaline F allows you to not have to use carbon to remove any impurities and is much longer lasting than carbon as it is raw Tourmaline Stones.

I would begin a track of investing in ADA additives for their effects and uses, but take it in steps, learn what they're useful for and apply them for effectiveness.

In a 10 gallon tank:

Green Bacter: $18, beneficial bacteria stabilizes aquarium during cycling and helps during water changes to maintain bacteria. In a 10 gallon it will last you 1 - 1 1/2 years with the proper dosing.

Cost: $0.033 a day

Bacter 100: $16, Substrate additive + cyanobacteria killer & additive for algae problems. For Nano tanks, typically lasts 4 layouts.

Cost: $4 / layout

ECA: $18, fertilizes iron and organic acids to encourage bacterial growth, dosed once a week 3-4 drops. In Nano tanks, will last 1 - 1 1/2 years.

Cost: $0.033 / day

Green Gain: $18, contains trace elements, minerals, amino acid, as well as plant hormones to help plants recover quicker after trimming. In Nano tanks, lasts 1 - 1 1/2 years.

Cost: $0.033 / day

Phyton Git: $18,
contains Phytoncide and no chemicals. This is a natural solution to algae, when it breaks out dosing to water column helps kill algae by strengthening plants natural auto-immune systems to fight algae. You can apply this with a brush directly to anubias leaves to kill BBA. Lasts 1 - 1 1/2 years in Nanos.

Cost: $0.033 / day

Then of course, the fertilizers themselves when you switch over to them, each 500 ml bottle will last about a year in a nano tank (I had one bottle of Brighty K, Step 1 and Step 2 last about 2 years across three different tanks. But we'll just say each $20 bottle will last 1 year to be conservative.

Cost: $0.05 / day between 4 total fertilizers (i'd just do Brighty K, Step 1 then buy Step 2 later, then Step 3 down the road.

So your daily cost to run the TOTAL ADA system would be: $0.18 / day and $4 per layout (well, $20 per layout if you did all the substrate additives).

P.S. if you've found these techniques valuable, help share the information with new comers by linking back here in your own journals when you use my techniques!
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:30 PM   #140
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I took a few other photo's just for fun last night after the lights had been on a while:





P.S. if you've found these techniques valuable, help share the information with new comers by linking back here in your own journals when you use my techniques!
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:13 PM   #141
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thanks for writing that out!! its given me some good things to think about!

es, please post that link or PM it to me when you get a chance.

so tourmaline F isnt a liquid? its something like purigen?

i dont have money to buy much if anything more than the bio rio right now.

this summer im hoping to save up to get an ADA or do!aqua tank and the whole shebang. i might not get everything from ADA but most of it hopefully. maybe a 45-p or the do!aqua equivelant. regardless of which tank i end up getting, i might just wait on the additives and such and just get dry ferts and dose EI or PPS pro, then buy the ADA additives when i have saved up to get it all at once.

or maybe it would be better to get the additives all when i have saved enough to get them all, then save some more to order the tank. i dont know, ive got time to figure that out though.
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:18 PM   #142
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Thank you for letting us see your past tanks, love seeing the progress folks make from the beginning!

Also appreciate all the journaling you did here, helps a lot I think!
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:28 PM   #143
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A few of you now have asked me questions about the equipment list that I am running on this aquarium, and while I think that putting it up as the very first thing to do to get people to read a thread is in poor taste, it has become quite evident that you guys find the information valuable, whether that is to mimic the results or to find comparable products on the market.

So without further talk, here's the list:

It's all ADA proprietary:

Core:
Aquarium: Cube Garden Mini M
Lighting: Solar Mini M, Bulb: 27w Compact Flourescent, 8,000k.
Stand: Wood Cabinet Gun Metal Silver

Co2 & Distribution:
Co2 Advanced System (System 74-YA/ver. 2, Clear Parts Set, Bubble Counter (set includes more, but I had a few replacements)
Diffuser: Pollen Glass Mini
Metal Cap Stand
El-Valve (solenoid for automatic Co2 on/off)

Filtration:
Eheim 2211 (13mm inflow, 10mm outflow)
Clear Hose 10mm & 13mm
Lily Pipe Mini P-1 10mm (outflow)
Lily Pipe Mini V-1 13mm (inflow)

Filtration Media, Month 1:
Eheim Bio Rings
NA Carbon 750ml

Filtration Media, Month 2:
Eheim Bio Rings
Bio Rio 1L

Filtration Media, Month 4:
Bio Rio 2L (will end up being 1.5L in eheim 2211)
Tourmaline F

Substrate
Penac P
Penac W
Bacter 100
Clear Super
Tourmaline BC
Power Sand S 2L
Amazonia Powder Type 3L (for this slope, ended up being about 4.5L)

Maintenance Tools:
Maintenance Stand I
Pincettes S
Pincettes M
Sand Flattener
Pro Pincettes Spring (Curve Type)
Wave Scissors
Pro Scissors Short (Curve Type)
Pro Scissors Short (Straight Type)
AP Glass Feeder
AP-1 Fish Food

Fertilizers and Additives:
Week 1: Brighty K, Green Bacter
Week 2 to end of Month 3: Brighty K, Green Brighty Step 1, Green Brighty Special Lights (alternate Day 1 = Step 1, Day 2 = Lights, etc Brighty K everyday)


Month 3 onward: Brighty K, Green Brighty Step 2, Special Lights (see above for dosing)

Month 1 onward: ECA (iron, bacterial growth) once a week, 3 drops.

Fertilizer dosings are one squirt per day, by the end of the 2nd month this will likely be two squirts.

Green Bacter: after every water change, always.

Phyton Git: use when algae pops up
Green Gain: after trimming

Other Setup Tools:
Riccia Stones
Riccia Line
Moss Cotton
Lava Rock for moss attachment

Hardscape:
5 Manten Stones

Water Change Schedule:
First week = daily water change (50%-80%)
Second week = water change every other day (50%-80%)
Third week = water change every third day (twice) (50%-80%)
Fourth week onwards = once a week water changes, water change as needed due to algae.

Total time for water changes on a Mini M: 10 minutes
Likely Regime: draining about 10% of the water daily for extra aeration (~1-2 min)

Water Quality:
Pure RODI water, no additives.

Likely additional additives:

Seachem Excel, half capful daily after 2-3 week for a secondary source of carbon.

Co2 Distribution:
1 BPS first week
2 BPS second week
3-4 BPS onward, raise as needed.

Average Co2 cartridge lifespan:
4 weeks

P.S. if you've found these techniques valuable, help share the information with new comers by linking back here in your own journals when you use my techniques!
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:29 PM   #144
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This is a great reference and how to thread/guide for beginners to learn and develop good habits and for older seasoned hobbyist to improve on their technics. I'm actually on a trip, not really a vacation with the family so can't stay long.

I hear them calling me so I have to go. One of the things I agreed to was minimal computer time on this trip so I'll be gone for about a week and a half, we left Sunday the 18th.

I can't wait to show Connor the thread when we get back

Dan
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:39 PM   #145
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Seems strange to start off with 1 bps at first and increase it later?
Any logic behind that?

I assume it may be to keep the water from getting too acidic for nitrifying bacteria?
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:42 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by orchidman View Post
thanks for writing that out!! its given me some good things to think about!

es, please post that link or PM it to me when you get a chance.

so tourmaline F isnt a liquid? its something like purigen?

i dont have money to buy much if anything more than the bio rio right now.

this summer im hoping to save up to get an ADA or do!aqua tank and the whole shebang. i might not get everything from ADA but most of it hopefully. maybe a 45-p or the do!aqua equivelant. regardless of which tank i end up getting, i might just wait on the additives and such and just get dry ferts and dose EI or PPS pro, then buy the ADA additives when i have saved up to get it all at once.

or maybe it would be better to get the additives all when i have saved enough to get them all, then save some more to order the tank. i dont know, ive got time to figure that out though.
Take it in steps. My very first tank had no ADA (largest disaster), and then I gradually added more and more ADA as I could afford it until you see what I just listed above. Most of that equipment has lasted me for years now, and it's the best investment I've ever made (I don't keep a TV at home, I tried watching TV lately, and that stuff makes you stupid. If you want to increase your IQ by 20 points read a book, take care of a planted tank, whatever instead of watching drivel on TV).

Anyway, back to taking it in steps. If you'll let me, I'll teach you a very valuable life financial strategy (hey, I normally get paid money to give this information as a consultant, so take it seriously).

Extreme cliff notes here (you'll have to enroll in a class with me to learn details & why, my going rate is $200 for all the information you need to start earning wealth & become debt free):

Budget out what you want, set plans, and set TIMELINES. Visualization is important, useful trick: the human brain can't tell the difference between a real and imagined experience in memory. Mimicry actually works.

So, take what you want, focus on that, and set your timelines to raise X dollars. Don't accept mental excuses you'll tell yourself like "i can't get the money, I'm XYZ, I can't do that," (believe me, we ALL do it, and it's all a mental block that prevents us from getting what we want. If you can conquer that, you've got a huge leg up on everyone else) sure enough, if you say you can't do something, you, well can't do it and won't do it!

I'd go in order of biggest bang-for-your-buck first. I can help you budget and put it all out there for you to work. But go with Bio Rio first.

Tourmaline F is pure stones - much better than Purigen. Purigen is a chemical based powder that purifies water.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
Thank you for letting us see your past tanks, love seeing the progress folks make from the beginning!

Also appreciate all the journaling you did here, helps a lot I think!
Not a problem Alyssa! Many people are embarassed by their original layouts, but I say, hey, y'know I think that's the most valuable part of anything.

Look at my original layout: there was even a non-aquatic plant in there! and when you see that, and laugh and go "okay, well I can definitely at least do BETTER than that," you can then see the progression and know that while you're having frustration now (if you're having it, and in this hobby that's pretty common no matter what level you're at), there is another level you can and will cross into with dedication, persistence and the willingness to learn and adapt successful habits.

The only way you lose in the Planted Tank game is to give up.

P.S. if you've found these techniques valuable, help share the information with new comers by linking back here in your own journals when you use my techniques!
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:44 PM   #147
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That last post is awesome! Thanks for posting all the equipment and specs!!!

I have a question about lily pipes.. For either type, what is the correct height relative to the surface to have them?
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:49 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orchidman View Post
That last post is awesome! Thanks for posting all the equipment and specs!!!

I have a question about lily pipes.. For either type, what is the correct height relative to the surface to have them?
what he said!

also, how do you grow fissidens well?
i have a fissiden tree in my tank with lush green glosso and the fissiden looks so... bleak. i've been it super lush and green before on other threads..
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:50 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantra View Post
This is a great reference and how to thread/guide for beginners to learn and develop good habits and for older seasoned hobbyist to improve on their technics. I'm actually on a trip, not really a vacation with the family so can't stay long.

I hear them calling me so I have to go. One of the things I agreed to was minimal computer time on this trip so I'll be gone for about a week and a half, we left Sunday the 18th.

I can't wait to show Connor the thread when we get back

Dan
Dan, maybe you can steal some computer time to show Connor the story I shared about him and yourself!

I hope you have a great trip. Bring pictures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chlorophile View Post
Seems strange to start off with 1 bps at first and increase it later?
Any logic behind that?

I assume it may be to keep the water from getting too acidic for nitrifying bacteria?
Absolutely. Initially when plants are making the transition into a new aquarium, and are either A) making the transition from emmersed, or B ) were submerged but now have gone through the trauma of uprooting, trimming and planting, the most important factors are support of the beneficial bacteria (more oxygen at night), water change, and supporting root health & growth (additives).

Since the plants are all in a transition phase, for the first week their ability to take in nutrients, co2, etc is compromised, so we slowly, slowly start adding fertilizers and staging up co2 progression as needed.

This leads to a successful growth pattern of: planted, getting adjusted / established, spreading roots, growing a little, growing a little then BAM explosive growth.

The key is to minimize algae during the transition phases. I can already see some traces of algae coming in (imports from the last tank the riccia was in) which requires some trimming and will require the addition of Amano's soon to make sure it doesn't become a problem.

As plants melt, they are removed with small airline tubing and trimming scissors to get rid of the debris in the tank, this encourages growth of NEW plants.

The trick to know is: no matter where we are in the growing cycle, we're always encouraging new growth. It's the healthiest, most vitale and algae free. Which means that we're constantly trimming back old leaves and algae-ridden leaves to prevent an infection of algae from old to new.
P.S. if you've found these techniques valuable, help share the information with new comers by linking back here in your own journals when you use my techniques!
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:55 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orchidman View Post
That last post is awesome! Thanks for posting all the equipment and specs!!!

I have a question about lily pipes.. For either type, what is the correct height relative to the surface to have them?
Thanks. The correct height for the lily pipes in the nano models is to just have them sit naturally on the tank (no suction cups so they sit at the same height no matter what).

The correct height in larger tanks, is to let the intake rest naturally on the glass surface and have the output adjusted so the pipe is just under the water surface to create a whirlpool, and then at night lift it up halfway out of the water for aeration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnod View Post
what he said!

also, how do you grow fissidens well?
i have a fissiden tree in my tank with lush green glosso and the fissiden looks so... bleak. i've been it super lush and green before on other threads..
I don't have much experience with fissidens, but generally if you're lacking green color in fissidens, or having color problems in general there are two nutrients you can bump up to increase color: potassium (typically shown by yellow or browning leaves as needing more, but moss is different), and iron (enhances a lot of colors, especially in reds).

P.S. if you've found these techniques valuable, help share the information with new comers by linking back here in your own journals when you use my techniques!
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