My Review: SunSun "Outside Filter" HW-302 - Page 40
Planted Tank Forums
Your Tanks Image Hosting *Tank Tracker * Plant Profiles Fish Profiles Planted Tank Guide Photo Gallery Articles

Go Back   The Planted Tank Forum > Specific Aspects of a Planted Tank > Equipment


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-31-2012, 05:07 PM   #586
humblepie
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 43
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by In.a.Box View Post
I got my the other day been running on my 40B for 4 days now.
When I first got it, it was wet inside I guess they test run it before they shipped it out.
The o-ring and inside on the side was oily. Filter didn't come with any carbon or bio ball.
It did came with 3 white floss pad.

So far so good this filter is like a ninja I can't hear a thing sometime I wonder if this filter is working/on or not. Lol I must say the flow suck at 200+ gph this thing is weak.
If I was to guess the flow rate on this filter I would say about 145+.

This filter will be nice if there a carry handle so you can pick it up.

Here my media set up.
Bottom: ton of floss
Middle: floss, bio ball
Top: bio ball, biomax.

The skimmer on this thing doesn't work for me since the water line is high.
The reason for your low flow is the way you set up your media.

Normally if you are using high density filter floss, which is very restrictive in regards to water flow rate, you want to keep it overall very thin. The denser the material then the "thinner" you need to use for those pads.

Also there is a bit of a problem with filter floss. Usually it is very dense and will filter out everything. The problem is that large particle will clog it faster than smaller particle. If you have a LARGE space to use filter floss, such as a modified circumference bucket filter like a fluval fx5 or the odyssea 500 then you can use the dense floss as the first line of filtration.

If you are using a canister, then placing that dense floss first will make it clog to quickly as there isn't enough surface area for that floss. Which is why in canisters most users will place the dense floss last.

Typical setup for a canister filter is a thick piece of low density mechanical filtration. Usually a very porous and coarse sponge to fill the entire first tray.This allows that sponge to collect the bigger particulates first without clogging. The smaller particulates in the water will be later caught by the denser floss. After the coarse sponge, one then places the bio filtration media. This is to allow the bio filtration to eat up as much of the ammonia and nitrites as possible. During initial setups, many users will place chemical filtration next in line after the bio filtration. This is because there may not be enough bacteria built up on the bio filtration to completely eat all the ammonia and nitrites. So a chemical filtration method, such as using zeolite, is needed for a bit. Once enough bacteria has formed, then the chemical filtration can be swapped out for more bio media if desired.

Final filtration for a canister filter is typically the super dense filter floss. Only a very thin layer of such material so as not to overly restrict the flow rate. Nor by this point should there much particulates needed to be filtered out except for the very small particles.

Eventually over time the filter materials will clog up. The coarse sponge filters are easy to clean. Just squeeze out and knock off all the gunk. The dense filter floss can be re-used after cleaning, but is typically more of a hassle than it is worth. Easier to just toss the dense floss and replace it new. The amount of bacteria lost over doing this, as some will also grow on the dense floss, should be negligible.

So for a bottom up canister like the sunsun you want to stack your media like this:

Dense Filter Floss
Chemical (optional or more bio)
Bio Media
Coarse Sponge





This gives you the optimal filtration for these styles of filters without overly restricting flow rates. Give that a try.
humblepie is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-02-2012, 03:32 PM   #587
sea_bird200
Newbie
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Norwalk Ca
Posts: 4
Default

this filter leaked from all sides after a few months of used... Any place I can get the big black O-ring for the head ???
sea_bird200 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-02-2012, 03:44 PM   #588
phorty
Algae Grower
 
phorty's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 103
Default

Start here, not sure which you need
http://www.petmountain.com/product/a...ng-gasket.html
http://www.petmountain.com/product/a...ng-gasket.html
phorty is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-02-2012, 06:07 PM   #589
MChambers
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 263
Default

Or here:

http://www.americanaquariumproducts....terFilter.html
MChambers is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-05-2012, 12:46 PM   #590
Othello
Newbie
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lebanon
Posts: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by humblepie View Post
The reason for your low flow is the way you set up your media.

Normally if you are using high density filter floss, which is very restrictive in regards to water flow rate, you want to keep it overall very thin. The denser the material then the "thinner" you need to use for those pads.

Also there is a bit of a problem with filter floss. Usually it is very dense and will filter out everything. The problem is that large particle will clog it faster than smaller particle. If you have a LARGE space to use filter floss, such as a modified circumference bucket filter like a fluval fx5 or the odyssea 500 then you can use the dense floss as the first line of filtration.

If you are using a canister, then placing that dense floss first will make it clog to quickly as there isn't enough surface area for that floss. Which is why in canisters most users will place the dense floss last.

Typical setup for a canister filter is a thick piece of low density mechanical filtration. Usually a very porous and coarse sponge to fill the entire first tray.This allows that sponge to collect the bigger particulates first without clogging. The smaller particulates in the water will be later caught by the denser floss. After the coarse sponge, one then places the bio filtration media. This is to allow the bio filtration to eat up as much of the ammonia and nitrites as possible. During initial setups, many users will place chemical filtration next in line after the bio filtration. This is because there may not be enough bacteria built up on the bio filtration to completely eat all the ammonia and nitrites. So a chemical filtration method, such as using zeolite, is needed for a bit. Once enough bacteria has formed, then the chemical filtration can be swapped out for more bio media if desired.

Final filtration for a canister filter is typically the super dense filter floss. Only a very thin layer of such material so as not to overly restrict the flow rate. Nor by this point should there much particulates needed to be filtered out except for the very small particles.

Eventually over time the filter materials will clog up. The coarse sponge filters are easy to clean. Just squeeze out and knock off all the gunk. The dense filter floss can be re-used after cleaning, but is typically more of a hassle than it is worth. Easier to just toss the dense floss and replace it new. The amount of bacteria lost over doing this, as some will also grow on the dense floss, should be negligible.

So for a bottom up canister like the sunsun you want to stack your media like this:

Dense Filter Floss
Chemical (optional or more bio)
Bio Media
Coarse Sponge





This gives you the optimal filtration for these styles of filters without overly restricting flow rates. Give that a try.
Hi there

Great thread.

I bought the SunSun on Saturday to replace a DIY filtration system I had for my 180G tank...must say its pretty silent and I have to sometimes put my hand on the filter to make sure its running at all I got the 304/B model which is supposed to churn out 1400 Liters per hour...(roughly 370GPh) priming it was a major PITA until i came across this thread and filled it up with water prior to powering it on...then it worked like a charm.

Currently my tank is pretty empty in terms of stock with one Bala Shark, two Clown Loaches and one Tiger Barb and seven red crayfish I like to call the seven dwarfs as they tend to put up quite an act...they will be moved to another tank soon as they cannot seem to coexisist with any form of plantations... I plan to stock some more but I am taking it nice and slow...don't want to over do it...most likely it will be a school of tetra neons (around 15 or 20), a couple of angels, my bala shark and a mate and of course the loaches and the barb.

anyways my question is regarding the tray stackup of the sunsun...as per the quoted thread, the trays should be stacked as:

Dense Filter Floss
Chemical (optional or more bio)
Bio Media
Coarse Sponge

is this from top to bottom or the other way round?

what I have right now is

Top tray: white fiber stuff similar to what came in the trays originally ( I threw that one out as I thought it smelled chemical)

Middle tray : ceramic rings from my previous filter

Bottom Tray: Carbon bags also from my previous filter...

Flow is not as I was hoping...could it be from the stackup? should I change this?

thanks in advance.
Othello is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-06-2012, 07:07 PM   #591
humblepie
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 43
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Othello View Post
Hi there

Great thread.

I bought the SunSun on Saturday to replace a DIY filtration system I had for my 180G tank...must say its pretty silent and I have to sometimes put my hand on the filter to make sure its running at all I got the 304/B model which is supposed to churn out 1400 Liters per hour...(roughly 370GPh) priming it was a major PITA until i came across this thread and filled it up with water prior to powering it on...then it worked like a charm.

Currently my tank is pretty empty in terms of stock with one Bala Shark, two Clown Loaches and one Tiger Barb and seven red crayfish I like to call the seven dwarfs as they tend to put up quite an act...they will be moved to another tank soon as they cannot seem to coexisist with any form of plantations... I plan to stock some more but I am taking it nice and slow...don't want to over do it...most likely it will be a school of tetra neons (around 15 or 20), a couple of angels, my bala shark and a mate and of course the loaches and the barb.

anyways my question is regarding the tray stackup of the sunsun...as per the quoted thread, the trays should be stacked as:

Dense Filter Floss
Chemical (optional or more bio)
Bio Media
Coarse Sponge

is this from top to bottom or the other way round?

what I have right now is

Top tray: white fiber stuff similar to what came in the trays originally ( I threw that one out as I thought it smelled chemical)

Middle tray : ceramic rings from my previous filter

Bottom Tray: Carbon bags also from my previous filter...

Flow is not as I was hoping...could it be from the stackup? should I change this?

thanks in advance.
Water in the Sunsun/aquatop filters flow from the bottom to the top trays. Here is what I've done with my aquatop filter. I have the 404/b model with 4 trays.

Bottom tray was the course blue sponge material. I bought a sheet of the same stuff to stack on top of the blue pad. This way the bottom tray is completely full with fairly course open cell reticulated foam. This stuff can easily be rinsed off and reused forever.

The next tray up I bought 5 packages of plastic pot scrubbers from the dollar store. I turned them sideways and stacked them in there nice and tight. I had like 4 left over as they come in packages of 6 for a dollar. This filers out smaller sized particles in the water that make it through the porous foam in the bottom tray.

Next tray I have some ceramic bio-rings. In hindsight I think I paid too much by going this route as it took 3 boxes of 500ml of rings to fill the tray. At $13 a box that is $39 for rings. What I should have done, after learning how much surface area there is, is go out and buy a bunch of bags of wide opening coffee straws. You know the black straws used for stirring and drinking that they used in coffee or mostly at bars? You don't want the regular drinking straws as they have too wide a diameter. Nor do you want those really thin brown ones with the really tiny diameter. You want the straws with the 2mm-3mm diameter or so. My dollar store sells them for a buck a package. It takes about 5 or 6 packages of these to fill a tray. Once you buy them, you need to cut them up into half inch lengths or so. Then fill up a tray. These cut up straws have ridiculous amount of surface area to grow bacteria upon. As much or more than those ceramic bio rings I bought and at a MUCH cheaper price. From a couple of documents and reports I've read, they have more surface area than the sinstered orbs used commonly for bio media such as Ehiems substrate pro which costs ridiculous amounts of cash.

Lastly, since I'm still in the initial stages, I got a big container full of carbon and zeolite chips. I bought some pantyhose, also from the dollar store, and filled the pantyhose with the carbon zeolite chips. This is because those chips are a bit smaller than the "slots" on the bottoms of the trays and tend to work their way through those slits. Make sure you pour the carbon and zeolite chips into the panty hose while you are OUTSIDE, as they make quite a bit of dust. Also make sure after the chips are in the pantyhose that you rinse it all off to remove the remainder of the dust. Unless you have good tap water, I wouldn't use the tap water to rinse off though. Just get some good water you would put into your tank normally to rinse it off.

I did this and fill the top tray with just enough carbon and zeolite chips in panty hose to almost fill the tray. I left enough room to place some filter floss at the very top.

That's all I did. I get good flow and good filtration over all.
humblepie is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-07-2012, 07:56 AM   #592
Othello
Newbie
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lebanon
Posts: 4
Default

Many thanks Humblepie. I will re-do the stack on my filter and get back

on another though, is 1400 Liter per hour a good enough flow for a 700 liter tank? (in gallons that would be around 370GPh for a 180g tank)
Othello is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-07-2012, 04:46 PM   #593
humblepie
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 43
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Othello View Post
Many thanks Humblepie. I will re-do the stack on my filter and get back

on another though, is 1400 Liter per hour a good enough flow for a 700 liter tank? (in gallons that would be around 370GPh for a 180g tank)
Not really. Those flow numbers listed are always the theoretical max output of the pump pushing water by itself. If there is any restrictions, such as media in the way, then the pump is going to go slower, thus less flow. Usually, the true flow rate on a filter is usually half or less of the stated flow rate. Rule of thumb I was told and use is to take whatever flow rate is listed and use 40%-50% of that number. So a canister filter with a 370gph flow rate is going to have an actual flow rate of 148-185 gph usually when filled with media. (more restrictive media will have less flow)

Typically, you want to turn your tank at a minimum of 3 times per hour. So you take 180 gallon tank and you'll want to be moving 540 gallons per hour at a minimum. Some advocate more. I have a friend who swears by 10 times the turn rate. You really don't need THAT much flow in my opinion.

So if you are using the 303/403/CF-400 models of the sunsun/aquatop filters then you are going to need 3 of them. If you are using the 304/404/CF-500 models then you are going to need 2 of them for a tank that size.
humblepie is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-07-2012, 04:52 PM   #594
Daximus
Got dirt?
 
Daximus's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,877
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by humblepie View Post
Not really. Those flow numbers listed are always the theoretical max output of the pump pushing water by itself. If there is any restrictions, such as media in the way, then the pump is going to go slower, thus less flow. Usually, the true flow rate on a filter is usually half or less of the stated flow rate. Rule of thumb I was told and use is to take whatever flow rate is listed and use 40%-50% of that number. So a canister filter with a 370gph flow rate is going to have an actual flow rate of 148-185 gph usually when filled with media. (more restrictive media will have less flow)

Typically, you want to turn your tank at a minimum of 3 times per hour. So you take 180 gallon tank and you'll want to be moving 540 gallons per hour at a minimum. Some advocate more. I have a friend who swears by 10 times the turn rate. You really don't need THAT much flow in my opinion.

So if you are using the 303/403/CF-400 models of the sunsun/aquatop filters then you are going to need 3 of them. If you are using the 304/404/CF-500 models then you are going to need 2 of them for a tank that size.
Agreed.

I have the Aquatop 500 model (rated 525 g/p/h) on my 90, and it works very well. That said, my setup is probably about the limit. Any larger tank I would have to recommend more filtration. I would go for two of the 500 models in your case.
__________________
Daximus is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-07-2012, 09:20 PM   #595
Redmar
Algae Grower
 
Redmar's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: York, PA
Posts: 35
Default

Could someone tell me if Ebay item# 251010184734 is a SunSun filter?

Thanks
Redmar is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-07-2012, 09:33 PM   #596
Daximus
Got dirt?
 
Daximus's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,877
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redmar View Post
Could someone tell me if Ebay item# 251010184734 is a SunSun filter?

Thanks
Yes...I love how they advertise, lol.

"We got tired of selling the name brand stuff...so we had our own line up of filters made" hahahahahahahah!

If Ebay gets on your nerves, these guys are a pleasure to deal with. http://www.truaqua.com/
__________________
Daximus is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-09-2012, 09:08 AM   #597
Othello
Newbie
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lebanon
Posts: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by humblepie View Post
Not really. Those flow numbers listed are always the theoretical max output of the pump pushing water by itself. If there is any restrictions, such as media in the way, then the pump is going to go slower, thus less flow. Usually, the true flow rate on a filter is usually half or less of the stated flow rate. Rule of thumb I was told and use is to take whatever flow rate is listed and use 40%-50% of that number. So a canister filter with a 370gph flow rate is going to have an actual flow rate of 148-185 gph usually when filled with media. (more restrictive media will have less flow)

Typically, you want to turn your tank at a minimum of 3 times per hour. So you take 180 gallon tank and you'll want to be moving 540 gallons per hour at a minimum. Some advocate more. I have a friend who swears by 10 times the turn rate. You really don't need THAT much flow in my opinion.

So if you are using the 303/403/CF-400 models of the sunsun/aquatop filters then you are going to need 3 of them. If you are using the 304/404/CF-500 models then you are going to need 2 of them for a tank that size.
many thanks. I will see about getting a second filter...problem is with space

Tonight I will try playing around with the materials some more...got some of the pot scrubbers from local supermarket...will try these along with carbon and ceramic rings and see what gives.

also I think I will be doing 2x per week 50% water change till I find a solution...maybe a HOB kind of filter or reintroduce one of the old DIY filters...
Othello is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-10-2012, 04:23 AM   #598
Patriot
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
Patriot's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Spokane, Washington
Posts: 903
Send a message via Skype™ to Patriot
Default

My filter was running quite but that soon changed. It's making a rattling or humming sound. I took the filter apart thinking that something was stuck in there but found nothing.
__________________
Proudly Serving in the United States Armed Forces, 2009-Present
SUNSUN PIMP #41
The Fraternity of Dirt #50
Just because its dirt doesn't make it low tech.
What Can Dirt Do For You?
Nikon Club Member #35
Patriot is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-05-2012, 12:25 PM   #599
Othello
Newbie
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lebanon
Posts: 4
Default

A quick update: the SunSun is running well. I got a two more of them (303) one for a second aquarium (50Gal) I started up and one for a low end cichlid tank that has been running for a couple of years...the filters are great!!!

on my 180g I added a supplementary filter which is an atman bio tube (http://photobucket.com/images/atman%...0bio%20filter/) with 8 canisters that are filled with ceramic rings, bio balls and filter material...same principle as the sun sun but cannisters are packed in a horizontal tube that hangs over the tank...fed by a 2000lph water pump...

I guess with both filters things are moving well. I have good water parameter readings.

thumbs up for the SunSun
Othello is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-05-2012, 02:40 PM   #600
jingleberry
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 226
Default

I've used mine for 1.5 years and not one complaint.
__________________
jingleberry is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Planted Tank LLC 2012