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Old 01-29-2012, 04:01 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
Out of the RO/DI:

pH 6.5
KH 1
GH 1
TDS 2
Hm... are you sure your kH and gH test is correct out of the tap? Or is your TDS measurement in degrees? Generally, if you're using a TDS meter it will measure in ppm, whereas the kH and gH tests are in degrees. In which case your TDS should at least be ~38.
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Old 01-29-2012, 04:53 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by mordalphus View Post
No, you add RO right until your _GH_ is 4-5, KH should stay 0


BTW, sweet UGF :P

Sorry to sorta thread jack but Im curious, does KH matter at all in a tank with active soil? Or because the soil buffers you dont need KH and the soil keeps the PH from swinging?

Also in the regards to the OP, sweet UGF.
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Old 01-29-2012, 05:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diwu13 View Post
Hm... are you sure your kH and gH test is correct out of the tap? Or is your TDS measurement in degrees? Generally, if you're using a TDS meter it will measure in ppm, whereas the kH and gH tests are in degrees. In which case your TDS should at least be ~38.
The numbers you quoted are from the water out of the RO/DI filter. My tap water is:

pH 7.6
KH 5 (drops to color change, API test kit)
GH 6 (drops to color change, API test kit)
TDS 117
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Old 01-29-2012, 05:53 PM   #19
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Sorry to sorta thread jack but Im curious, does KH matter at all in a tank with active soil? Or because the soil buffers you dont need KH and the soil keeps the PH from swinging?

Also in the regards to the OP, sweet UGF.
Thanks and no problem...ask away. Other people ask questions and I (and others) still learn because a lot of this stuff is still new to me too.
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Old 01-29-2012, 06:20 PM   #20
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I have a set up with akadama as well but I did not use any supplements under the substrate. Tank is set up and going for a few days now -- should I be adding anything if I just use regular tap water? This whole akadama thing is new to me.
Akadama apparently strips so many minerals out of the water upon initial set-up that you just have to keep an eye on it.

In an ideal world the minerals that the Akadama would suck out would be shrimp beneficial minerals (so that those minerals are theoretically available at some point) and having old sea mud under the substrate is probably a beneficial thing with most substrates anyways so that is probably why Liam is suggesting it.

My understanding with a new Akadama tank is simply that you have to keep an eye on it to make sure that it doesn't knock your tank parameters too far out of where you think they are. If you are re-constituting RO water you will have figured out what target water you are aiming for (probably based upon TDS readings) and you will be assuming that that the gH and kH will fall in line based upon your calculations of the RO mineral additive that you are using.

With Akadama in the early stages of a tank those minerals can get sucked out of the water at a significant clip and might make your water TOO soft if you don't keep an eye on it.

This only appears to be a concern or threat during the initial set-up.
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Old 01-29-2012, 06:23 PM   #21
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This is why I want to setup and let the tank run for a couple weeks minimum before I even start to think about adding anything. This is my first run at an active substrate so I want to make sure things are settled before I start adding shrimp.

When/if the water does start to get too soft should one do a water change or just add remineralizing product to bring it back in line?
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Old 01-29-2012, 06:24 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madness View Post
Akadama apparently strips so many minerals out of the water upon initial set-up that you just have to keep an eye on it.

In an ideal world the minerals that the Akadama would suck out would be shrimp beneficial minerals (so that those minerals are theoretically available at some point) and having old sea mud under the substrate is probably a beneficial thing with most substrates anyways so that is probably why Liam is suggesting it.

My understanding with a new Akadama tank is simply that you have to keep an eye on it to make sure that it doesn't knock your tank parameters too far out of where you think they are. If you are re-constituting RO water you will have figured out what target water you are aiming for (probably based upon TDS readings) and you will be assuming that that the gH and kH will fall in line based upon your calculations of the RO mineral additive that you are using.

With Akadama in the early stages of a tank those minerals can get sucked out of the water at a significant clip and might make your water TOO soft if you don't keep an eye on it.

This only appears to be a concern or threat during the initial set-up.
Thanks for the answer. I just tested my PH and it's at 6.4 so it's not dropping all the much on the daily basis.
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Old 01-29-2012, 06:36 PM   #23
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Thanks for the answer. I just tested my PH and it's at 6.4 so it's not dropping all the much on the daily basis.
I don't think that it is the pH that you have to worry about dropping too far.

The pH drop with Akadama seems to be smaller than with ADA soils but the pH does seem to hold stable with Akadama.

The gH and kH are what you have to worry about.

I am guessing (but haven't tested it yet) that with tap water it probably isn't as much of an issue for two reasons - tap water tanks probably don't have as sensitive of shrimp (or they would be RO tanks) and the vast majority of tap water is going to come with higher TDS/gH/kH than what people set their RO water to.

If you look at what people are reconstituting RO water at (TDS/gH/kH levels) for most of the caridina cantonensis (bee shrimp and tigers) and caridina serrata shrimp (TTs, Aura Blues) there is very little TDS/gH/kH to spare so percentage wise any change is pretty significant.

People are re-constituting their RO water to mineral levels that are pretty close to zero to start with so there just isn't much leeway.
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Old 01-29-2012, 06:48 PM   #24
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Sorry to sorta thread jack but Im curious, does KH matter at all in a tank with active soil? Or because the soil buffers you dont need KH and the soil keeps the PH from swinging?
Yea that's completely correct. kH helps buffer the pH and keep it stable, but if you have active substrate it is doing the buffering so keeping the kH around zero you minimize the "work" the substrate has to put in to lower the pH.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
The numbers you quoted are from the water out of the RO/DI filter. My tap water is:

pH 7.6
KH 5 (drops to color change, API test kit)
GH 6 (drops to color change, API test kit)
TDS 117
Yea I meant are you sure the kH and gH values from your RO/DI filter are correct? Or is your TDS measurement in degrees? Generally, if you're using a TDS meter it will measure in ppm, whereas the kH and gH tests are in degrees. In which case your TDS should at least be ~38.
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Old 01-29-2012, 06:49 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diwu13 View Post
Yea that's completely correct. kH helps buffer the pH and keep it stable, but if you have active substrate it is doing the buffering so keeping the kH around zero you minimize the "work" the substrate has to put in to lower the pH.



Yea I meant are you sure the kH and gH values from your RO/DI filter are correct? Or is your TDS measurement in degrees? Generally, if you're using a TDS meter it will measure in ppm, whereas the kH and gH tests are in degrees. In which case your TDS should at least be ~38.
by GH 1 and KH 1, he meant 1 drop, which indicates 0-1
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Old 01-29-2012, 06:57 PM   #26
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Yeah, it took one drop and the color change was immediate which I would think indicates 0 for both values, or very close to it. But I see what you are saying diwu13.
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Old 01-29-2012, 06:58 PM   #27
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Liam: ever heard of anyone trying Fiji Mud rather than old sea mud?

I picked up a small bottle of the refugium booster with an order a while back with the idea of possibly testing it out but I haven't been brave enough yet. I need predictability on the next set-up I am doing so I will skip adding it but I might try it out on a future set-up as I try to transition my tanks to all using active substrates.
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Old 01-29-2012, 07:04 PM   #28
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Only thing I'd worry about with fiji mud is if it has salt in it.
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Old 01-29-2012, 07:08 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordalphus View Post
by GH 1 and KH 1, he meant 1 drop, which indicates 0-1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
Yeah, it took one drop and the color change was immediate which I would think indicates 0 for both values, or very close to it. But I see what you are saying diwu13.
Ahhh haha. I figured you'd put like "0-1" or something. Sorry I was confused ._.
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Old 01-29-2012, 07:24 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diwu13 View Post
Yea that's completely correct. kH helps buffer the pH and keep it stable, but if you have active substrate it is doing the buffering so keeping the kH around zero you minimize the "work" the substrate has to put in to lower the pH.



Yea I meant are you sure the kH and gH values from your RO/DI filter are correct? Or is your TDS measurement in degrees? Generally, if you're using a TDS meter it will measure in ppm, whereas the kH and gH tests are in degrees. In which case your TDS should at least be ~38.

Thanks. I guess I should stop adding baking soda now and stop wondering why my KH keeps going back to 0 lol.
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