ADA Aquasoil came apart in 8 months - Page 3
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Old 06-01-2011, 10:32 PM   #31
DaveK
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Originally Posted by plantbrain View Post
I'm not really sure why they messed with a good thing and made II.
I'd be pissed too.

I'm saying that the solution is to stick with type I.
I'm not sure about the new stuff, it's untested, I cannot say(no one can at this point), I fully believe and have no reason to doubt folks experiences with type II. I think the likelihood of a conspiracy there is nil.

Trying new stuff is good and teaches folks, but sometimes........I'd want $$ back and replacement of product myself. That seems fair. Something, toss me a bone, free shipping on type I, anything.

But to say, "ah, tough.............we sorry, but we are not going to do anything for you....." at the end of the day, that would chaff my hide.

I know.......had this done with other things in the hobby.
I did not let it go either, I'm an elephant there.
You might be right about Amazonia I verses II. In fact, I'm sure your are.

Yes, had I know this when I made the purchase, I would have gone with the Amazonia I. However, after a bad experience, I just can't bring myself to replace one product by another similar one from the same vendor.

You may or may not have noticed, but I have never said that I expect the vendor to replace the product, or make any kind of adjustment. I do not believe that anyone set out to make an inferior product. A also do not think I was ever dealt with in bad faith.

It's like anything else, if your going to get better at something you have to try new ways of doing things. Sometimes things just don't work out. I'm more interested in finding out if others had the problem, and what they did about it. Like they say, if you never take a step, you'll never stub your toe, but then you never get anywhere.

As things in the hobby go, I have a lot of work to do, and yes, it's a pain, but overall, I'm not too bad off. I've had no loss of livestock that can be attributed to the problem, and the plants have grown well. True, I'm out the cost of the substrata replacement, but that's about all.

Things could have been a lot worse.
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Old 06-01-2011, 10:38 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Bunbuku View Post
when i had a tonina style tank, I almost lost my whole scape with EC. Kh was not suitable even with extensive prewashing. OTOH they did well with AS or Flourite.
This is an important point. Not every product or method works the same for everyone.

Ever notice how many people have a fantastic aquarium, with many difficult to keep plants, but there always seems to be one, simple, easy to keep species that they just can't get to grow? (grin)
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Old 06-02-2011, 05:34 AM   #33
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It is possible that AS II wasnt meant for long term use. I feel like I read that somewhere before I ordered mine but I also feel like they would keep that from me to make the sell. Even with this, I still like the soil a lot I just dont like the price of it when I have to replace it once a year.
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Old 06-02-2011, 10:56 PM   #34
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It is possible that AS II wasnt meant for long term use. I feel like I read that somewhere before I ordered mine but I also feel like they would keep that from me to make the sell. Even with this, I still like the soil a lot I just dont like the price of it when I have to replace it once a year.
I don't think it was planned that way. It's more of less how it worked out for me.

However, I do seem to recall reading something similar. I seem to recall that the ferts used to make Aquasoil will last a year or two, and at that point you would need to additional ferts to the substrata. Also, that after something like 8 years, you could expect to need to replace the substrata. T

I sure don't like replacing things after only a year or two. Besides being too much like work, it's a major disruption to the tank.
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Old 07-24-2011, 06:21 AM   #35
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I don't think it was planned that way. It's more of less how it worked out for me.

However, I do seem to recall reading something similar. I seem to recall that the ferts used to make Aquasoil will last a year or two, and at that point you would need to additional ferts to the substrata. Also, that after something like 8 years, you could expect to need to replace the substrata. T

I sure don't like replacing things after only a year or two. Besides being too much like work, it's a major disruption to the tank.
I agree. The labor that goes to a tank when tearing it down can be overwhelming at times (depending on the size of the tank). Me personally I don't like doing it too often because it's discouraging knowing how much time it took to do it. I'm actually looking forward to knowing peoples reactions on the new "improved" version. I got 2 bags and are going to use them in the upcoming months but until then i'll be waiting patiently for more user reviews. If anything, i'm very interested in trying my hand at fluval stratum because i've kepts it in my smaller ada 30-c tank and I have to say it's a nice substrate to have and works without any flaws that I know of.
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Old 07-24-2011, 10:29 AM   #36
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Just a status update on my tank. A couple of months ago I did do the tear down and replaced the Aquasoil with EcoComplete. It was an all day job, but it went well. After aquarium keeping for more year than I like to think about, I know what I got to do.

I must say that the plant growth removed was massive. The other thing I found was that EcoComplete really is a clean substrata that doesn't require a lot of washing before use. That part I really didn't expect, because every other substrata that I ever used needed at least some washing to get it clean, even the ones that claimed they didn't need washing.

Right now I'm going through some of the usual algae cycles that often occur with new tanks. It's taking a bit of a toll on the plants, because I don't want to fertilise too much with the algae issues.

I'll post some picts once it gets to the point where the tank looks respectable.
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Old 07-24-2011, 03:18 PM   #37
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Anyone using the NEW Aqua Soil?
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Old 07-24-2011, 04:03 PM   #38
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Default ADA Aquasoil turning to silt

You are obviously correct that Aquasoil tends to breakdown over time, but that time should be in years, not days as you seem to be encountering. Keep in mind that ADA does not like to sift or siphon much of the top layer of the substrate, therefore causing a lot of disturbance which would lead to the breakdown, you're seeing. They clean their tanks daily, almost hourly because they have the people to do it. Their method is based on a lot of pruning and water changes, as opposed to heavy siphoning/vacuuming which can be very disturbing and sometimes destructive. One of the beauties of a NATURE AQUARIUM is the carpet like effect that Amano seems to get out of his plants, this is usually very difficult for most enthusiasts to duplicate. That carpet effect comes with a problem, getting the top layer of your substrate where food and dead leaves fall becomes challenging. I want to be careful to point out that ADA's team does siphon, but very carefully and very liberally, and more for the purposes of water changes then bottom cleaning. It seems they prefer to use the term "animals" for fish (if you read his latest books) to do that job, and or a lot of pruning, which I think is very important.

My point is don't give up so quickly on Aquasoils, they are very good, and let's keep in mind that the environmental message of the company is paramount here. Pricey, no one can disagree with. Thanks to the efforts of great people like George Lo and Jeff Senske, the price has come down dramatically. Is it as inexpensive as FLUVAL or SEACHEM solutions, no.

My final point here, would be to make sure that with the tank size you are using, that you may want to think about a using Powder Sand was your bottom layer, mixed with PENAC. Exactly why it has the name "powder" in the title is perplexing to me, because its made out of volcanic rock and doesn't resemble sand at all, but this bottom layer gives you more stability in your substrate, the "powder" thing comes I assume from all of the dusting of different powders they put on the rock. Remember, water has a lot of mass to it, and does impact the stability of substrate. Aquasoil was designed to be used alone in smaller size tanks, say something in the neighborhood of a 10-gallon or less.

I read your fustration on the fact that your environment is already set up, and "wet" Aquasoil can't be re-bagged, but planning any environment is a key factor, and I think we all feel for you.
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Old 07-24-2011, 10:28 PM   #39
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At this point, I've already replaced the Aquasoil II with EcoComplete. So yes, I have given up on the Aquasoil II, due to it breaking down in a few months. Considering that ADA products are extremely expensive, it's reasonable to expect top rate results. I do admit that as far as growing plants, the Aquasoil was excellent, but is should have never broken apart. It did this all on it's own. I don't think I ever disturbed the substrata with any maintenance. I did make some disturbance replanting a few areas. Oddly enough, this was not in areas where I had the problem.

It is quite possible the new Aquasoil is a lot better. However, as I pointed out in a previous post, I'm not about to try the new material after a really bad experience. It's just like if you go out and buy a new car from what should be a top quality brand, and you get a lemon. No matter how good the reputation of the manufacturer is, you most likely never buy another.

Since the substrata replacement has already been made, any further discussion of Power Sand, PENAC and so on is moot.

In my opinion, the mass of the water should have no impact on the Aquasoil or any other substrata. Water pressure is related to depth only. My 90 gal tank is something like 20 inches tall. A standard 20 gal tank is 18 inches tall. Are you trying to tell me that 2 inches in tank height makes that much difference? Now if I had something that was 6 feet deep, I could see a possible issue.

Your quite right about Aquasoil not being able to be re-bagged, I had to discard it. I thought it looked bad in the tank. It really came undone after being removed.

As for cost, I am fortunate that I have several good LFS in my area. Most of the other popular substrates I can purchase locally and not pay shipping. This isn't that case with Aquasoil, so it was much more expensive that the other substrates you mention.
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Old 07-26-2011, 03:42 PM   #40
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I don't think you did this DaveK, but I'm just going to mention it here just in case there's confusion for new users to Aqua Soil (I know how threads like these typically get researched when people are making decisions):

just for the record: never, ever ever ever, under ANY circumstance, rinse or gravel vac aqua soil of any kind. This will cause big problems. It isn't designed to handle that kind of thing - Aqua Soil is still at the end of the day, clay.
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