Metering(needle) valves selection for our CO2 pressurized system - Page 3
Planted Tank Forums
Your Tanks Image Hosting *Tank Tracker * Plant Profiles Fish Profiles Planted Tank Guide Photo Gallery Articles

Go Back   The Planted Tank Forum > Specific Aspects of a Planted Tank > Equipment


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-07-2011, 05:53 AM   #31
kevmo911
Planted Tank Guru
 
kevmo911's Avatar
 
PTrader: (32/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 3,895
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by herns View Post
Wow! the price is $125!

Ideal V. is about $85 when I bought it.
Well, the millimite has a slightly lower Cv than the Ideal. And, let's face it, it's Evilbay. Some of the really good stuff is priced like the stuff yardsalers drool over, and some of the real garbage is passed off as gold and precious gems. And, either way, it all depends on what you're looking for.

I have a BM series Swagelok valve that's sold new for $250. And I bought it used for $13 shipped. And, since it might actually be useless for what I need it for, I might just sell it for what I bought it at.
kevmo911 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-07-2011, 07:21 AM   #32
Bettatail
Planted Tank Guru
 
Bettatail's Avatar
 
PTrader: (82/98%)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,280
Default

sell it to me
I will add another metering valve, to make them inline for fine bubble adjust.
so two metering valves together look GOOD.


Put more metering/needle valves inline, the adjustment is much precise, I am going to give it a try.
I plan to use the SMC AS1000 valves I have, to make them two each group(inline, their inlet/outlet are really easy to connect), so finer adjustment.
Bettatail is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-07-2011, 07:09 PM   #33
Bettatail
Planted Tank Guru
 
Bettatail's Avatar
 
PTrader: (82/98%)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,280
Default

The pictures of Fujikin and HOKE Milli-mite metering valve.
the shape of handles look similar, who try to copy who?





Bettatail is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-10-2011, 11:45 PM   #34
Bettatail
Planted Tank Guru
 
Bettatail's Avatar
 
PTrader: (82/98%)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,280
Default

Pictures of swagelok 22 series and bellow 4BMRG metering valves coming soon.
Bettatail is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-11-2011, 02:55 AM   #35
btimmer92
Wannabe Guru
 
btimmer92's Avatar
 
PTrader: (67/99%)
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 1,227
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettatail View Post
sell it to me
I will add another metering valve, to make them inline for fine bubble adjust.
so two metering valves together look GOOD.


Put more metering/needle valves inline, the adjustment is much precise, I am going to give it a try.
I plan to use the SMC AS1000 valves I have, to make them two each group(inline, their inlet/outlet are really easy to connect), so finer adjustment.
putting two needle valves in conjunction will not make them more precise.

The flow will only be as high as the valve that has the lower flow, kind of like only as strong as the weakest link. Whichever valve is set to a higher flow does nothing, because the flow will always be lower due to the other metering valve.

If you have the second needle valve set more closed than the first, pressure will slowly build up between the two metering valves, until it is the same before and after the first valve. After that, the first valve becomes useless and does nothing to the flow of the system, because the second metering valve is the only limiting factor of the flow
__________________
-Bill



btimmer92 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-11-2011, 03:01 AM   #36
Bettatail
Planted Tank Guru
 
Bettatail's Avatar
 
PTrader: (82/98%)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,280
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by btimmer92 View Post
putting two needle valves in conjunction will not make them more precise.

The flow will only be as high as the valve that has the lower flow, kind of like only as strong as the weakest link. Whichever valve is set to a higher flow does nothing, because the flow will always be lower due to the other metering valve.

If you have the second needle valve set more closed than the first, pressure will slowly build up between the two metering valves, until it is the same before and after the first valve. After that, the first valve becomes useless and does nothing to the flow of the system, because the second metering valve is the only limiting factor of the flow
good point, didn't think about that.

do someone know c02 density?
there is a formula for this, when two valves setup reach new equilibrium, the flow volume are the same at both valve, but this volume is always smaller than that the single valve with the same orifice/opening.
I remember density, the orifice(cutting surface area of airway), and pressure difference are key elements, but to make sure, I need the book.
Bettatail is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-11-2011, 03:03 AM   #37
btimmer92
Wannabe Guru
 
btimmer92's Avatar
 
PTrader: (67/99%)
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 1,227
Default

example metering valve specs:
metering valve 1: 10 turns from 0bps-100bps
metering valve 2: 10 turns from 0bps-100bps

Let's say that metering valve 1 is set at 10bps

the adjustment span of metering valve 2 is NOT: 10 turns from 0bps-10bps
it is actually 1 turn from 0-10bps, and after 1 turn, it will do nothing.
__________________
-Bill



btimmer92 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-11-2011, 03:04 AM   #38
btimmer92
Wannabe Guru
 
btimmer92's Avatar
 
PTrader: (67/99%)
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 1,227
Default

good thought though, it would work if the pressure didn't build up between the two valves, because as we know, flow varies with pressure

Jaggedfury once had the same idea you did, except he was actually telling his customers that this could be done with his paintball neede valves..... :0
__________________
-Bill



btimmer92 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-11-2011, 03:05 AM   #39
maknwar
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
maknwar's Avatar
 
PTrader: (67/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 910
Default

If I had a choice between searching for needle valves like the Fujikin and HOKE Milli-mite vs calling Ideal and getting it in a few days, I would take the Ideal any day. Sure, you might find a good deal some day but the Fujikin and HOKE Milli-mite are not that popular and your going to be looking for a while.
__________________
maknwar is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-11-2011, 03:09 AM   #40
btimmer92
Wannabe Guru
 
btimmer92's Avatar
 
PTrader: (67/99%)
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 1,227
Default

I have still not to use anything in my setups except a fabco. I really want to try out an ideal, but they are too expensive for me. I will probably buy a few and build some regs out of them once I sell a regulator and get the necessary cash.
__________________
-Bill



btimmer92 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-11-2011, 03:35 AM   #41
Bettatail
Planted Tank Guru
 
Bettatail's Avatar
 
PTrader: (82/98%)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,280
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by btimmer92 View Post
good thought though, it would work if the pressure didn't build up between the two valves, because as we know, flow varies with pressure

Jaggedfury once had the same idea you did, except he was actually telling his customers that this could be done with his paintball neede valves..... :0
the problem is that the input psi is 800, too much, if for some reason the second valve stuck, the space between 1st and 2nd valve will be 800 psi, if this space is plastic air tube but not metal that can withstand 800 psi, it will burst.
so cut off the flow from second valve will cause trouble, and always turn off flow at 1st valve.
Bettatail is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-11-2011, 03:36 AM   #42
Bettatail
Planted Tank Guru
 
Bettatail's Avatar
 
PTrader: (82/98%)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,280
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maknwar View Post
If I had a choice between searching for needle valves like the Fujikin and HOKE Milli-mite vs calling Ideal and getting it in a few days, I would take the Ideal any day. Sure, you might find a good deal some day but the Fujikin and HOKE Milli-mite are not that popular and your going to be looking for a while.
it is for collection, not for sale

and you can see ideal on flea bay too, just need some luck.
I believe someone here bought 3 or 4 of them, brass, the ideal, at the price lower than the swagelok.
Bettatail is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-11-2011, 04:14 AM   #43
Bettatail
Planted Tank Guru
 
Bettatail's Avatar
 
PTrader: (82/98%)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,280
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by btimmer92 View Post
example metering valve specs:
metering valve 1: 10 turns from 0bps-100bps
metering valve 2: 10 turns from 0bps-100bps

Let's say that metering valve 1 is set at 10bps

the adjustment span of metering valve 2 is NOT: 10 turns from 0bps-10bps
it is actually 1 turn from 0-10bps, and after 1 turn, it will do nothing.
HA.
pressure difference.
Bettatail is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-11-2011, 05:39 PM   #44
btimmer92
Wannabe Guru
 
btimmer92's Avatar
 
PTrader: (67/99%)
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 1,227
Default

lol lets not start another argument we managed to leave the other one to rest....
__________________
-Bill



btimmer92 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-11-2011, 05:45 PM   #45
bsmith
Planted Tank Guru
 
bsmith's Avatar
 
PTrader: (278/99%)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: St.Louis, MO
Posts: 9,059
Default

Does anyone know what the model of the Swagelok NV im using is?
bsmith is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Planted Tank LLC 2012