Metering(needle) valves selection for our CO2 pressurized system
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Old 04-29-2011, 04:01 AM   #1
Bettatail
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Metering(needle) valves selection for our CO2 pressurized system


Post this just want to give some more options on choosing the right metering valves for our DIY CO2 rig build.
please post a picture of the metering valve if you are the lucky guy have one of the valves from the bottom of the list.

also in this thread.
*Solenoid valves selection
*Adjust bubble rate.



Metering/needle vales, Cv (flow coefficient) under 0.1 only


Swagelok 20 series needle valve, soft seat stem. Part number SS(B)-20R*
Orifice: 0.08"
Cv: 0.09 (at 2.5 turn full open)

Swagelok O series needle valve, soft seat stem. Part number SS(B)-OR*
Orifice: 0.08"
Cv: 0.09 (at 8 turn full open)

Pneumadyne (Pneumatic Control System), 700 series needle valve, Part number: C070301/C070501/C070601, made in UK
Thanks to kevmo911, who shine the light on this 700 series needle valve and present the .pdf data
Orifice: N/A
Cv: 0.09 (at 12 turn full open)

SMC AS2000 series needle valve, Part number: AS2???-*
Orifice: N/A
Cv: N/A ( At 4 turn SCFM is 0.88 SCFM, after 4 turn flow rate spike)

Clippard MNV-3/4 series needle valve, part number MNV-3* , MNV-4*
Orifice: 0.07"(MNV-3), 0.067"(MNV-4)
Cv: N/A (at 4 turn SCFM is 1, Cv is under 0.03 before 4 turns, after 4 turns, Cv spike)
owned

Ideal valve 52(brass)/54(stainless steel)--2 series, Part number 52-2-*, 54-2-*
Orifice: 0.0625"
Cv: 0.082 (at 20 turn, 22-24 turn full open)
owned

Hoke 2300 series metering valve, 8 degree angle stem
Orifice: 0.062"
Cv: 0.075 (at 20 turn full open)
owned

Parker Hannifin NM series, Part number *-NM?-*-*-*-*
Orifice: N/A
Cv: 0.055 (at 14 turn full open)
owned

Fabco NV55/FC55 needle valve, Part number NV-55, NV-55-18, FC-55
Orifice: N/A
Cv: N/A (approximately at 0.04, The SCFM is 1.7 at 10 turn full open, fully open flow rate similar to swagelok 31 series, actual lower flow control precision is similar or better than swagelok M series metering valves)
owned

SMC AS1000 Series needle valve, Part number AS120?-*
Orifice: N/A
Cv: N/A (approximately at 2.83 SCFM at 10 turn, but the flow curve is concaved, at 4.5 turn is 0.71 SCFM compare to NV-55 which is 0.95+ SCFM at 4.5 turn.
owned

Parker Hannifin HR series, Stem type 5, Part number: *-H5?-*-*-*
Orifice:N/A
Cv: 0.049 (at 15 turn full open)
owned

Parker Hannifin NS series, Part number *-NS?-*-*-*
Orifice: N/A
Cv: 0.042 (at 14 turn full open)
owned

Swagelok 31 series metering valve, Part number SS(B)-31R*
Orifice: 0.062"
Cv: 0.04 (at 10 turn full open)
(Tested, Orifice is too big, at low turn doesn't work well, avoid it)
owned

Parker Hannifin HR series, Stem type 4, Part number: *-H4?-*-*-*
Orifice:N/A
Cv: 0.032 (at 15 turn full open)

Swagelok Belows-sealed metering valve, Part number SS-4BMG, SS-4BMW(weld port)
Orifice: N/A
Cv: 0.019 (at 6 turn full open)
(Tested, Orifice is too big, at low turn doesn't work well)
owned

Swagelok M series metering valve, Part number SS(B)-?MG*, SS(B)-?MA*
Orifice: 0.056"
Cv: 0.03 (at 9 turn full open)
double pattern, dual handle
Cv: 0.026 ( at 9 turn full open)
(a lot of the swagelok M series that we can obtain are used with damaged/partially damaged stems, or older models Nupro M series, the precision lower than the new, so choose wisely)
owned

Ham-Let HF1300 series metering valve, 3 degree stem angle, Part number HF13??-*-*
Orifice: 0.055"
Cv: 0.03 (at 11 turn full open)

Fujikin UN series metering valve, L mark on top of the vernier handle, made in Japan
Orifice: 1.8MM
Cv: 0.03 (at 14 turn full open)
owned

Hoke Millimite 1300 series metering vale, 3 degree angle stem.
Orifice: 0.047"
Cv: 0.024 ( at 18 turn full open)
owned

Parker Hannifin HR series, Stem type 3, Part number: *-H3?-*-*-*
Orifice:N/A
Cv: 0.021 (at 15 turn full open)
owned

Fujikin High Pressure series metering valve, Part number: N/A, made in Japan
Orifice: 1.6MM
Cv: 0.017 (at 12 turn full open)

Fujikin UN/DUN series metering valve, made in Japan
Orifice: 1.5MM
Cv: 0.015 (at 14 turn full open)

Ideal valve 52(brass)/54(stainless steel)--1 series, Part number 52-1-*, 54-1-*
Orifice: 0.0313"
Cv: 0.019 (at 20 turn, 22-24 turn full open, approximate Cv 0.008 -0.009 at 10 turn)
owned

Parker Hannifin HR series, Stem type 2, Part number: *-H2?-*-*-*
Orifice:N/A
Cv: 0.014 (at 15 turn full open)
owned

Swagelok 21/22 series metering valve, Part number: *-21???-*, *-22???-*,
These are the mystery discontinued swagelok precision low flow control valve, and thanks to kevmo911, who shine the light on the 21/22 series and present the .pdf data.
Orifice: 0.02"
Cv: 0.007 (at 8 turn full open)
owned(TESTED! Due to the small orifice and long needle stem of this valve, the actual CV/turn and flow rate at low turn is a real small number, 0.1 bubble adjustment is possible on JBJ bubble counter)
Kevmo911 is the hero to bring this metering valve back to life...

Hoke Millimite 1300 series metering vale, 1 degree angle stem.
Orifice: 0.047"
Cv: 0.011 ( at 18 turn full open)
owned

Hoke 2300 series metering valve, 1 degree angle stem
Orifice: 0.062"
Cv: 0.01 (at 20 turn full open )
(Tested, Orifice is too big, at low turn doesn't work well)
owned

Parker Hannifin HR series, Stem type 1, Part number: *-H1?-*-*-*
Orifice:N/A
Cv: 0.007 (at 15 turn full open)

Fujikin PUN series metering valve, made in Japan
Orifice: N/AMM
Cv: 0.004 (at 10 turn full open)

Swagelok S series metering valve, Part number SS(B)-SS* , SS(B)-SM*
Orifice: 0.032"
Cv: 0.004 (at 10 turn full open)
double pattern, dual handles
Cv: 0.001 ( at 10 turn full open)
owned

Ham-Let HXF1300 series metering valve, 1 degree stem angle, Part number HXF13??-*-*
Orifice: 0.03"
Cv: 0.004 (at 11 turn full open)

Hoke Micromite 1600 series metering valve.
Orifice: 0.031"
Cv: 0.0008 (at 18 turn full open)
owned

Parker Hannifin HR series, Stem type 0, Part number: *-H0?-*-*-*
Orifice:N/A
Cv: 0.0004 (at 15 turn full open)
All Parker HR Series valves, the valve cartridge and the valve body are inter-changeable.
owned

Brooks instrument Extremely low flow NRS needle control valve, Model 8503, 8504, 8513, 8514.
This metering valve is the same design(non rising stem) as Parker Hannifin HR series, and same as Parker HR series, low CV for extremely low flow control.
8503, angle pattern, normal handle
8504, straight(inline) pattern, normal handle
8513, angle pattern, digital handle
8514, straight(inline) pattern, digital handle
stem type Cv.
type 6, CV: 0.052
type 5, CV: 0.017
type 4, CV: 0.0057
type 3, CV: 0.0013
type 2, CV: 0.00066
type 1, CV: 0.00029
owned

Chell Ultra-Fine Mechanism Needle Valve, needle 1 model, Made in UK
Orifice: N/A
Cv: N/A
(The lowest flow rate valve I know, for our application. 20 turn full open. Max flow rate is 20 SCCM(standard cubic centimeter per minute), which is 0.02 liter per minute at full open, 145psi pressure differential. Listed price: $500+, manufacture handling/shipping: $115, Total cost to get it in the us $600+.)
owned.

Vacoa valve
0-1.8CC, the spaceship valve, flow rate too low, not for our fish tank.
owned


Please let me know if you see any other metering valves that not here and can be used in our DIY CO2 pressurized system.




what solenoid do you want to use?

Clippard solenoid(MME-2SDS-*), and Burkert 6011 solenoid are the most commonly seen in our application, they are 1/8" NPT ports and ready to fit pipe fittings.
but they are 6.5 watt and 4 watt power consumption and create a lot of heat for 8 hours on, also, the fluid media(CO2) flow is never fast enough to draw away the heat. The heat, creates core melting, metal(spring) fatigue, cracked O-ring problems, and shorten the lives of these valves.
Burkert is a tag better because it is 4 watt and create less heat than a Clippard(MME-2SDS-*).
Parker Skinner B series 1/8" NPT ports solenoid valves(6 watt, 7 watt) are not that common, but actually better, because they are full metal body, faster heat dispatch than the said Clippard and the Burkert.
Parker Skinner C series solenoid valves are even better, 1/8" NPT ports, full metal body and only 2 or 3 watt power consumption, but hard to find one.
The clippard mouse solenoid is the best I know so far, only 0.67 watt power consumption and designed for low flow applications(that is our setups), 1 billion official on/off cycle life, full metal body, doesn't even feel warm when operate. But this valve is not 1/8" NPT ports ready, need adapters or sometimes, need some metal working to make them connect to pipe fittings.

These solenoid valve are all high quality industrial valves, they all have on/off cycle lives that is not less than 100 million. Failed solenoid are commonly seem in our applications because the way we use it, for at least 7 hours on and the fluid is not be able to take away the heat. Constantly heated/overheated condition shorten the lives of solenoid valves and fail them.
So whichever creates less heat(less power consumption) wins.


How to adjust the bubble rate.
For no pressure in the post body system start up.
1. set the output pressure of the regulator at 30-50 psi.
2. close all needle valves, turn on the solenoid.
3. open the needle valve, slowly, monitor the bubble rate, every time you turn the needle valve, wait 20 seconds or longer, depends on how long the tubing from the needle valve to the diffuser, the longer the tubing, the longer time you need to wait. stop when the desire bubble rate reach.
4. (this step omitted if using a reactor-no backward pressure)wait until the diffuser starts cracking out bubbles, then wait 20 minutes.
5. Adjust the needle valve again, 20 seconds or longer waiting time each time you turn the needle valve, once the desire bubble rate reach, stop.
6. let the system run for half an hour.
7A. if there is no change of bubble rate after half an hour, you can lock the locking handle of the needle valve(for SMC AS1200 needle valve), and it is all done.
7B. if there is no signification change of the bubble rate, repeat step 5 and 6.
7C. if there is significant change of the bubble rate after half an hour, use soapy water leak check the system, from the outlet of the regulator to the diffuser(if no leak, what is the needle valve you use?)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The Metering(Needle) Valve Selection for CO2 Pressurized System
Complete Leak check, Double Stage Regulator Pressurized system

Last edited by Bettatail; 08-15-2014 at 02:43 AM.. Reason: add
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Old 04-29-2011, 08:13 PM   #2
Bettatail
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About the connection type, fittings and adapters, will start another thread
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Old 05-01-2011, 06:05 AM   #3
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If you know any missing data on the valves above , please let me know
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Old 05-01-2011, 06:57 AM   #4
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Deleted - I originally misunderstood Betta's intent

Last edited by kevmo911; 06-10-2011 at 05:40 AM..
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Old 05-01-2011, 09:23 AM   #5
Bettatail
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevmo911 View Post
In a DIY CO2 system, a metering valve is useless. You won't produce enough CO2 to possibly cause any harm to any fauna, but that's not important.
The DIY here is not for bottle and yeast setup.

please read the last line
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettatail View Post
Please let me know if you see any other metering valves that not here and can be used in our DIY CO2 pressurized system.
It is the DIY precision CO2 flow pressurize system that hooks on a CO2 tank.
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Old 05-01-2011, 09:33 AM   #6
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this thread is the sister copy of the same thread in Tom Barr's report website, discussions about the regulators are far and deep enough, now I just want to give more options on choosing the metering valves.

nothing harms, right?
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Old 05-01-2011, 10:01 AM   #7
Bettatail
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Just hunted down a Japanese Fujikin S series metering valve from Evil bay, the seller have no clue how much was this valve when new..

will post more metering valves info from other big name producers. Hopefully anyone read this have some idea and get a good deal when getting the right valve from clueless sellers.
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Old 05-03-2011, 05:39 AM   #8
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Build a co2 system, for one of the member here.

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Old 05-11-2011, 06:50 AM   #9
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Nice!!! Can you tell me which one is the best? I'm having some inconsistencies with my paintball diy.. it won't stay at 1bps. Either stops after a few hours, or worse, increases to over 20bps.

Will all of those valves you listed be strong enough to control the full force of a paintball tank? (800+ psi) Because the paintball tank is only capable of either on or off, right? So the valve needs to be strong enough that it won't burst under that pressure.

Thanks!
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Old 05-11-2011, 07:17 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADA View Post
Nice!!! Can you tell me which one is the best? I'm having some inconsistencies with my paintball diy.. it won't stay at 1bps. Either stops after a few hours, or worse, increases to over 20bps.

Will all of those valves you listed be strong enough to control the full force of a paintball tank? (800+ psi) Because the paintball tank is only capable of either on or off, right? So the valve needs to be strong enough that it won't burst under that pressure.

Thanks!
I don't want to get involve in the argument of which one is best, It is your decision to get the one you believe its the best and worth the value.

Swagelok 31 series, or hoke 2300 series are high pressure metering valve, they can work under high pressure, but they are not regulator.
if the PSI difference is 800 PSI between inlet and outlet of these two metering valves, the flow is relatively fast, Cv rate increase as the pressure difference rise.

And I doubt it is safe to put them to work, 800 PSI is a real challenge for rest of the fittings and connectors, you need a regulator to lower the pressure anyway.
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Old 05-11-2011, 07:43 AM   #11
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updated, Fujikin metering valve and Ham-let metering valve

this is a Fujikin L series metering valve
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Old 05-15-2011, 07:06 AM   #12
Bettatail
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no one have any uncommonly seen metering(needle) valve?
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Old 05-15-2011, 03:46 PM   #13
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I don't believe many of us have any idea what would work when just searching around on [Ebay Link Removed] You're probably not going to see anyone posting up their Hoke or Parker. I think my favorite not so common valve is the Swagelok 'S' series. It's kinda like a smaller version of the Ideal valve.

I don't think I've ever seen anybody else using this one: (my personal reg)

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Old 05-15-2011, 04:33 PM   #14
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There is a Parker metering valve on evil bay right now, someone might go ahead and grab it.
it is the stainless steel NS model, flow precision is about the same as a swagelok M series metering valve.

Oldpunk, that is a lovely stainless steel setup you have, what is the maker of the reg? Air products?
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Old 05-15-2011, 06:43 PM   #15
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Thank you, yes it an airproducts unit.
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