can i use 1inch eco complete with 1.5 inches regular gravel?

[nicks7.1985]

i was trying to use the gravel over ecocomplete cuz i dont like the black color of it. would 1inch eco under 1.5 inches gravel work?
i have medium-high lighitng, pressurized co2, ei dosing schedule...on a 55 gallon tank..so maybe 40lbs eco, under 60 lbs regular gravel?

[Hoppy]

This would work, because even 100% pool filter sand will work. But, a substrate with a high CEC, like Flourite will work better. Eco Complete also works, but, like Flourite, it is not a nutrient loaded substrate.

[nicks7.1985]

really?...so i can use 100% sand with co2, ei dosing, and medium lights and get good reslts?

[roadmaster]

Originally Posted by Hoppy

This would work, because even 100% pool filter sand will work. But, a substrate with a high CEC, like Flourite will work better. Eco Complete also works, but, like Flourite, it is not a nutrient loaded substrate.

The 80 lbs of Eco complete I recently placed in my tank contains no nutrient's? How are they able to advertise otherwise ?
Please point me to where the evidence to support your statement is.

[Darkblade48]

A quick search reveals several hits:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/su...lete-long.html

It has been repeated in the past. Eco Complete generally is low on nutrients, but high on CEC.

Flourite is similar.

There was a good site that I saw recently (maybe posted here, or on another forum) that compared various substrates (both commercial and more DIY)

[roadmaster]

With all due respect, I require evidence rather than opinion's.
Some have reported that Eco complete contains no nutrient benefits for planted tanks and several hours of searching for discussions or opinions on same , do not produce any supporting evidence.
Am aware that perhaps other substrates are favored, and perhaps some other substrates may hold more nutrients (macro) but can find nothing disputing the claims made by makers of Eco Complete save for opinions.

[Darkblade48]

Unfortunately, all you will find are users experience based on their own growth conditions. I do not believe there will be any peer reviewed scientific articles detailing the veracity of the claims made by CaribSea regarding their substrate product's ability to provide nutrients to plants.

However, an important nutrients for plants is nitrogen. For example, ADA Aquasoil, when put into the aquarium, will slowly release ammonia. This ammonia can be measurable from day 1. Does Eco Complete have a similar result when tested with an ammonia kit?

[roadmaster]

Have sent E-mail to caribsea tech and am awaiting their reply should they choose to respond as to nutrients available in their product outside of those stated on package (ie) Iron, calcium,mag,pottasium,sulfer,plus twenty five other elements needed for plant growth.
As for ammonia,my fish produce this constantly.
My plan with using the Eco -complete was to be able to feed the plants both from the substrate and the water column in low tech non CO2 tank and statements that this product holds little value as nutrient source causes me considerable concern.
Am also confused by the many who try and often do so successfully,, to simulate the effects of products like Eco Complete ,Aqua-Soil,etc with other less expensive ingredients if these products, (Eco- complete) are ineffective or produce poor results.
Am considering setting up a second planted tank with cuttings from first but recent statements regarding nutrient value of the Eco- Complete by a few here ,leave me a bit confused.
I understand that very few tanks are same as another and perhaps the product mentioned would be more or less effective with this considered (ie) low tech,high tech,EI dosing , CO2 levels ,etc.

[Hoppy]

Originally Posted by roadmaster

With all due respect, I require evidence rather than opinion's.
Some have reported that Eco complete contains no nutrient benefits for planted tanks and several hours of searching for discussions or opinions on same , do not produce any supporting evidence.
Am aware that perhaps other substrates are favored, and perhaps some other substrates may hold more nutrients (macro) but can find nothing disputing the claims made by makers of Eco Complete save for opinions.

From http://www.fluidsensoronline.com/201...ium-substrate/
"Nitrate free
.........
Analysis:-
(Units = ppm)
Iron 41625, Magnesium 23116, Calcium 33066, Potassium 5296, Zinc 78, Sulphur 361, Manganese 976, Sodium 12911, Aluminium 43152, Silicon 4499, Chromium 50, Cobalt 33, Barium 337, Strontium 278, Nickel 33, Titanium 4487, Vanadium 239, Lithium 8, Boron 2, Cadmium 2. Plus others."

These are trace elements, and there is no claim that any of them are available to the plants. Plants pick up nutrients as ions. Many rocks contain loads of these elements, but locked up in crystal formations, where they won't be readily available to plants.


When we refer to "nutrients", it is primarily nitrogen, potassium and phosphorous that we mean, since those are the macro nutrients.

[jreich]

when i did something simular it got all mixed up, there was no defined layer. Almost like i poured both bags in the tank at the same time. This will be especially true if you like to move your plants around often.

[roadmaster]

Originally Posted by Hoppy

From http://www.fluidsensoronline.com/201...ium-substrate/
"Nitrate free
.........
Analysis:-
(Units = ppm)
Iron 41625, Magnesium 23116, Calcium 33066, Potassium 5296, Zinc 78, Sulphur 361, Manganese 976, Sodium 12911, Aluminium 43152, Silicon 4499, Chromium 50, Cobalt 33, Barium 337, Strontium 278, Nickel 33, Titanium 4487, Vanadium 239, Lithium 8, Boron 2, Cadmium 2. Plus others."

These are trace elements, and there is no claim that any of them are available to the plants. Plants pick up nutrients as ions. Many rocks contain loads of these elements, but locked up in crystal formations, where they won't be readily available to plants.


When we refer to "nutrients", it is primarily nitrogen, potassium and phosphorous that we mean, since those are the macro nutrients.

Well, the product clearly says.. "contains all the mineral nutrients needed for aquatic plant growth"
If the nutrients were not available to the plants,, then I would expect growth to be poor, and many,many,folks would be complaining about the product when in fact, all I have found thus far indicates that most folks are pleased with results produced and as mentioned,,many others on planted tank forums claim to produce similar results with much less expensive ingredients.Why strive to produce similar results to a product that is ineffective?
For myself.. I am thus far pleased with the product and I receive no compensation, nor am I afilliated ,,with the company that produces this product.
I'm not easily baited by fix all products (ie) Cycle This,Stress that,Pima or Mela this, pH up and down, Bacteria in a bottle or bag,etc.
But from what I have seen thus far,, There must be something provided with this product that is quite beneficial to the plants I am keeping in my particular tank. (am aware that same results could be achieved cheaper)
Measured opinions are always a good thing in my view, and I will take on board those expressed while continuing to observe results.
Do believe I will visit www.aquariumfertilizer.com to see about possible PMDD Pre-Mix to perhaps provide additional benefits for my plants.
Would welcome thoughts/opinions on any benefits that this may provide.
I am always reading,listening,and attempting to learn more,, and apologise if I have come off in a bad light. I was confused by the suggestion that the substrate I chose was next to useless with respect to providing nutrients for plants when all other info and results thus far suggest otherwise.

Regards, Lee.

[Hoppy]

I haven't read where anyone has been disappointed with Eco Complete, and many consider it to be a great substrate. The only point I was making is that when you consider substrates containing plant nutrients, which has to mean the macro nutrients, ADA Aquasoil is pretty much the only widely available one that really does. MTS, a DIY product, also contains plant nutrients. But, a substrate with nutrients isn't the only way to grow aquatic plants well. It is just one of the ways. I have never even tried it, because I like using pool filter sand with water column fertilizing. The low cost is a major attribute of PFS too.

[xmas_one]

Originally Posted by roadmaster

Well, the product clearly says.. "contains all the mineral nutrients needed for aquatic plant growth"

key term "mineral nutrients"....