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Old 03-11-2010, 03:37 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Gatekeeper View Post
Fom wiki.



Not saying you should drink Excel, but it is alot safer to use and contact. For someone new to the hobby, keep it simple to start. Buying gallons of glutaraldehyde is just not something I would reccomend to someone who has just entered the hobby.

There is no trade secret. Seachem does not promote their product as an algacide. That is just a happy biproduct of using it.
Its the same thing so pretty much if you do something dumb with excel you will expect the same results as with MetriCide 14. They tell you in every post asked about it that its a proprietary/trade secret what the ingredients are. Plenty of people have asked Tom as well what they are but he wont say cause he worked with them to come up with excel. I dont recommend them to buy gallons of it cause a gallon of it will last forever. I just dont see spending any more money then needed when you can get the same results. I rather see someone new to the hobby save money and use it on what is needed rather then waste it. Just like people tell everyone there is no need for there fertilizers when you can get the same thing at greenleafaquariums cheaper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by over_stocked View Post
I must have not been clear. I meant that you can dilute the Metricide 14 with distilled water to be equal to excel, or like I do, you can just dose it at 100% and either use less metricide or dose more glutaraldehyde.
+1 I just use it full strength and dose it like on Seachems site and so far everything has worked out great..
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Old 03-11-2010, 03:49 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatekeeper View Post
Fom wiki.



Not saying you should drink Excel, but it is alot safer to use and contact. For someone new to the hobby, keep it simple to start. Buying gallons of glutaraldehyde is just not something I would reccomend to someone who has just entered the hobby.

There is no trade secret. Seachem does not promote their product as an algacide. That is just a happy biproduct of using it.
Thank you for providing us a very misleading post. You just refrenced the Wiki Page for Glutaraldehyde.

Excel IS Glutaraldehyde. So how is it "alot safer to use and contact"?

To prove a simple point, look at the MSDS for Bleach.

Now some excerpts:

Quote:
FIRST AID:
Eye Contact: Hold eye open and rinse with water for 15-20 minutes. Remove
contact lenses, after first 5 minutes. Continue rinsing eye. Call a physician.
Skin Contact: Wash skin with water for 15-20 minutes. If irritation develops, call
a physician.
Ingestion: Do not induce vomiting. Drink a glassful of water. If irritation
develops, call a physician. Do not give anything by mouth to an unconscious
person.
Inhalation: Remove to fresh air. If breathing is affected, call a physician.
Quote:
7 - EMERGENCY FIRST AID PROCEDURES
Skin: Wash skin with soap and water.
Eyes: Flush with water for 15 minutes. If irritation persists, seek
medical attention.
Inhalation: Remove to fresh air. If irritation persists, seek medical
attention.
Ingestion: Do not induce vomiting. Give large amounts of water.
Seek medical attention.
Which one is Metricide and which one is Bleach?

Now this:
Metricide:
Quote:
Hazardous Ingredients
This product contains no hazardous components as defined in the
OSHA Hazard Communication Standard (29 CFR 1910.1200).
Clorox Bleach:
Quote:
Hazardous Ingredients
Ingredient Concentration Exposure Limit
Sodium hypochlorite 5 - 10% Not established
CAS# 7681-52-9
Sodium hydroxide <1% 2 mg/m1
CAS# 1310-73-2 2 mg/m2

There is really no reason to be afraid of Metricide 14 in comparison to Excel, and the simple fact is SImple household bleach is more dangerous.

Here is the MSDS for Metricide

To add fuel to fire, here is the MSDS for Seachem Flourish Excel

Quote:
SECTION VI: HEALTH HAZARD DATA
Route(s) of Entry: Inhalation, Skin, Eyes, Ingestion
Health Hazards (Acute): Inhalation-Irritation to respiratory tract; Skin-Itching, pain; Eyes-Conjunctivitis;
Ingestion-Moderately toxic
Carcinogenicity: NA
Signs and Symptoms of Exposure: Inhalation-Stinging sensation in nose or throat, possible bleeding from
the nose, coughing, difficulty with breathing; Skin-Itching, redness, swelling, pain; Eyes-Redness,
swelling, discharge; Ingestion-Irritation of digestive tract, pain, nausea, vomiting
Medical Conditions Generally Aggravated by Exposure: Dermatitis, asthma, inflammatory or fibrotic
pulmonary disease
Emergency and First Aid Procedures: Inhalation-Remove to fresh air; Skin-Remove contaminated
clothing, wash with soap and water; Eyes-Flush with water for at least 15 minutes and seek medical
attention; Ingestion-DO NOT INDUCE VOMITING, do not give water to drink, seek medical help
immediately. NOTE TO PHYSICIAN-Due to the moderately irritating or corrosive nature of the material,
and the potential for lung injury from material aspirated during vomiting, the stomach should be
evacuated carefully, with a method least likely to cause aspiration (e.g., gastric lavage after endotracheal
intubation.)
For the record, Metricide 14 is used in surgery suites as a sterilizer, and on surgical instruments.
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Old 03-11-2010, 05:20 PM   #18
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We should not be making any contact with Excel or metricide etc.
Do not smell fumes if you can smell it, it's too much.

It's frigging toxic and has warning labels for good reason, lots of toxicology studies for good reason.

It is a general biocide, it kills everything, not just algae or fish or plants in high enough doses.

Wash it off immediately. Paint thinner might not seem toxic either to wash with your hands in to get glue etc off of, but if you like health issues later on........go right ahead. Avoid contact at all cost, treat like an acid that will fry your skin.

I even wonder about using it a lot for home aquariums due to volatilization into the air creating human health issues. I'd use CO2 correctly, or perhaps this in small tanks, or are uses to help when CO2 is an issue.

If you are unsure, there's plenty of sound medical advice on google:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...&aqi=&aql=&oq=

Regards,
Tom Barr
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Old 03-11-2010, 05:42 PM   #19
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I just want to keep my plants alive. I need a simple start. I thought excel (or Metricide) tanks were more middle-of-the-road and a beginner has more room for error than with CO2 tanks.
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Old 03-11-2010, 06:12 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by plantbrain View Post
We should not be making any contact with Excel or metricide etc.
Do not smell fumes if you can smell it, it's too much.

It's frigging toxic and has warning labels for good reason, lots of toxicology studies for good reason.

It is a general biocide, it kills everything, not just algae or fish or plants in high enough doses.

Wash it off immediately. Paint thinner might not seem toxic either to wash with your hands in to get glue etc off of, but if you like health issues later on........go right ahead. Avoid contact at all cost, treat like an acid that will fry your skin.

I even wonder about using it a lot for home aquariums due to volatilization into the air creating human health issues. I'd use CO2 correctly, or perhaps this in small tanks, or are uses to help when CO2 is an issue.

If you are unsure, there's plenty of sound medical advice on google:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...&aqi=&aql=&oq=

Regards,
Tom Barr
As a chemical I use daily at work, I understand that precautions should be taken. So long as you avoid contact with skin, and eyes and do not spill large quantities, you lungs are safe. Using it in a small room(when we clean ambulances with it we use respirators, because they are such a small space and we spray it liberally) at large quantities could be dangerous, but the research linked indicates significant long term usage and exposure might cause health problems. If you treat it like any other household chemical, ie do not drink it, do not sniff the bottle, rinse with copious water and do not use with children around, you will be safe.

The concern with healthcare workers is the fact that in certain areas, it is used in heavy amounts and sprayed, thus aerosolizing the compound, meaning you are inhaling far more than just fumes. For our purposes of simply pouring into a tank, there is little time for it to cause significant problems.

Like I said before... Simple bleach is dangerous too, so just follow common sense. Saying that excel is somehow safer than metricide 14 is simply wrong. If you have to use it, why not save some money in the process.

The system I use to draw off of a large bottle is to use the original cap with a tiny hole in it, using an IV line set the feeds to the bottom. I then use a syringe with a blunt tip on it to access a port in the IV line set and draw off what I need. I then put the syringe under the surface and shoot it near the filter output. There is little time for it to come out in the air and little risk of contact with it.

I would be happy to send people IV sets and syringes for the price of shipping to use for this or other dosing purposes.


Will take a pic and show how I use mine.
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Old 03-11-2010, 06:12 PM   #21
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I just want to keep my plants alive. I need a simple start. I thought excel (or Metricide) tanks were more middle-of-the-road and a beginner has more room for error than with CO2 tanks.
They are. It is easy to use and safe so long as you don't do something stupid.
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Old 03-11-2010, 06:29 PM   #22
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What you see is a tubing going through a small hole in the cap(glued to seal) and then at the top, the med port is used to draw metricide out of the tubing. Below that is locked off so it does not leak. Kept in a closet, light will not degrade the product.
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Old 03-11-2010, 07:37 PM   #23
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I just want to keep my plants alive. I need a simple start. I thought excel (or Metricide) tanks were more middle-of-the-road and a beginner has more room for error than with CO2 tanks.

Poor newbie, never knew what hit him!
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:10 PM   #24
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over_stocked thats pretty cool idea So once the air is out of the line does it stay out or do you have to draw the air out each time?
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:40 PM   #25
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Poor newbie, never knew what hit him!
Seriously! lol You hard-core plant people are scary! Though I have to say that I'm impressed with myself for keeping up. P.s. I'm a she
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Old 03-11-2010, 09:03 PM   #26
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I must have not been clear. I meant that you can dilute the Metricide 14 with distilled water to be equal to excel, or like I do, you can just dose it at 100% and either use less metricide or dose more glutaraldehyde.

Metricide contains the only active ingredient in Excel and would save the average user a TON.

For instance...

2x2L of excel(just over 1 gallon, would run you 62 bucks(before shipping) from Big als. (just the first I chose, not sure if it is cheapest)

1x1 gallon of Metricide 14 is 24 bucks shipped for me, from DealMed

Now, assuming you dose it straight, 100%, not reduced at all, Metricide is 38% the cost of Excel. You would be paying 62% more for a lower concentration of Glutaraldehyde.

Now, lets assume that you dilute it at a ratio of 1.5(Glutaraldehyde):1(distilled water) you end up with a percentage of 1.8% Glutaraldehyde--just over the excel level. This will make your 1 gallon of Metricide turn into 1 2/3 gallon(1.666) gallons of Excel equivalent.

So, now, if diluted you would have the equivalent of about 100 dolars(before shipping) worth of Seachem Excel. On a 50 gallon tank, dosing at seachem dosing of 5ml per 50 gallons... you have 1261 doses... For 24 dollars.

If you don't dilute it, but still dose 100%, you would have 757 doses(on a 50g tank) and be more concentrated. On my 75 gallon tank I dose 10ml daily/every other day of 100% metricide 14(2.7%). I have 378 doses in my bottle.

The value is simple.

All for 24 dollars shipped to my door and about 3 minutes of math.
Hi over_stocked,

I am planning on ordering Metricide 14 to replace the Excel dosing. Right now I dose 10ml/day of Excell in my 55g. How much 100% Metracid do I need to dose to match the Excel dosing. Also do you know if it's safe to overdose Metricid a little? Thank you.
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Old 03-11-2010, 09:58 PM   #27
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Hi over_stocked,

I am planning on ordering Metricide 14 to replace the Excel dosing. Right now I dose 10ml/day of Excell in my 55g. How much 100% Metracid do I need to dose to match the Excel dosing. Also do you know if it's safe to overdose Metricid a little? Thank you.
This is worthy of its own thread. Would be a shame to see this information getting lost inside another thread!
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Old 03-11-2010, 10:27 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by barbarossa4122 View Post
Hi over_stocked,

I am planning on ordering Metricide 14 to replace the Excel dosing. Right now I dose 10ml/day of Excell in my 55g. How much 100% Metracid do I need to dose to match the Excel dosing. Also do you know if it's safe to overdose Metricid a little? Thank you.

10ml/day?

Quote:
On initial use or after a major (> 40%) water change, use 1 capful (5 mL) for every 40 L (10 gallons*). Thereafter use 1 capful for every 200 L (50 gallons*) daily or every other day. Dosing may be slowly increased in high-growth aquariums. For smaller dosing please note that each cap thread is approximately 1 mL.
I use 5ml/day on my 55 gallon. I really dont think you wanna use 10ml/day when using Metricide 14 cause its a little stronger.
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Old 03-11-2010, 10:30 PM   #29
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This is worthy of its own thread. Would be a shame to see this information getting lost inside another thread!

Would be nice to see this have a complete thread just dealing with Metricide 14. This way if anyone ask questions its easier to put them to a post where it may answer there questions. Or maybe the OP or a Mod might change the title if they say its ok.
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Old 03-11-2010, 10:43 PM   #30
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Would be nice to see this have a complete thread just dealing with Metricide 14. This way if anyone ask questions its easier to put them to a post where it may answer there questions. Or maybe the OP or a Mod might change the title if they say its ok.
Ask and yee shall receive.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fe...el-dosing.html
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