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Old 12-09-2012, 03:40 AM   #1
Jiinx
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Question Apisto experts?

Hello!
I have a pair of triple red cacatuoides in my 79 G. Beautiful fish. I've had them since they were babies. The male is a couple of weeks younger than the female. Both are 4-5 months old.

I have another pair of gorgeous apistogramma bitaeniata maniti in my 10 G. They're adults. I just got them today.

I'm just wondering whether the male and the female are suppose to play nice together or is it normal for the male to chase the female off. Or bully her. Or nip her tummy. The females in both instances want nothing to do with the male or so it seems.

The b. maniti flares his fins (it's quite beautiful actually) and pauses when he sees the female, and then "attacks" her or swims to her quickly and she darts away.

Just wondering if there's anything I can do for the female? Or for the male to feel like aggressive?

sarah
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Old 12-09-2012, 03:51 AM   #2
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provide lots of hiding spots and line of site interruptions. the flaring behaivior is normal territorial / breeding activity for most apistos. a 10 gallon is a little tight for a pair of bitaeniata, but it will work given enough hiding spots.
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:29 AM   #3
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The 10 g has a few hiding spots. I put a giant piece of driftwood that creates a nice cave where the driftwood rests against the soil bed. A big piece of cholo wood is at the back. I'll be planting some plants.

I may put the maniti into the 79 g..there's a ton of hiding spots there but the two pairs will always cross each other while exploring..

I'm assuming if the male is bullying the female, they're not a match or will not breed?

Last edited by Jiinx; 12-09-2012 at 04:43 AM.. Reason: Added a question
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:51 AM   #4
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It is the general behavior indicating the females aren't ready to spawn. The males could care less and are a little rude.
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:09 AM   #5
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This is generally what happens between a male and female apisto until the female is ready for spawning, which requires "conditioning" in the form of generous feedings, typically with live/frozen food mixed in and your water conditions need to be right. The male's tend to develop a territory, and when a female enters it, and signals no intent of breeding, he suggests she "poop or get off the pot" so to speak.

Add some dither fish and get a bunch of plants in there and it won't really be an issue. Also, a small cosmetic mirror is a great way to keep the male pre-occupied with defending his turf rather than hunting down the female.
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:15 AM   #6
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get a trio....two female to one male...or the male will kill the female
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Old 12-23-2012, 01:52 AM   #7
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Thanks everyone!
I ended up moving the pair to my 79 g. There are a thousand places to hide and a very heavy plant mass to hide amongst as well.

I find the males of each pair keep nudging the female's belly and then turn around and wag their fin in their faces. Females are not interested at all and either go sideways when approach or swim away slowly.

Have you ever had a pair take a very long time to want to spawn? Or could it not be a match? Would adding another female cause stress to the other female? The females aren't stressed at all..the males aren't chasing them aggressively, just a nudge like "hey, whatcha up to? Wanna hook up?"

Thanks!
Sarah
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Old 12-23-2012, 09:57 PM   #8
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Sounds like they are doing great. The females know what to do to avoid getting attacked by the males. If she is ready to spawn, the encounter will go much diffrently. I don't really buy into the they are not a match theory. The apisto species that this might be true for are panduro and nijsenni and I haven't worked with them myself. One thing we can say is the female is not ready to spawn. It could be that the enviornmental cues are not there for her to want to spawn (temperature, pH, photoperiod, ect ect) ,but also the females only spawn every 30-40 days, and that is only if she is in the right conditions, and has had enough food to ripen the eggs. I'd say check your params to what other people are using to breed them, feed them really well with a mix of frozen and prepared foods and give it some time. Also, your females could still be immature.

Which species did you end up getting?
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:10 AM   #9
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Thank you so much for your response. So I shouldn't bother adding another female, then? Of any pair?

I have a pair of orange flash.
Pair of gbrs
And a pair of apisto bitaeniata maniti

My Gbrs are the most tame. They don't bother anyone and the apistos don't bother them. The female of the flash chases the female maniti. And the male flash doesn't care for anyone except the female flash. The male maniti chases the female and male flash..but he's wild caught while the flashes are tank bred.

So..just wait? Over feeding them also may over feed the rest of my tank..and that may just get my nitrates to go high! My tank is at a neutral 80 f for my badis badis..
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Old 12-24-2012, 09:47 PM   #10
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I'd wait to see how the aggression level gets when one of the females decides to spawn. The spawning female is the nastiest. She doesn't really give warning blasts or gill flares before she hits the other fish that are too close. The others generally learn pretty fast where to avoid. But your tank is probably big enough to house more pairs of apistos, or more females. For me, the males are not going to focus on killing a female in a 79 gallon planted tank with lots of other fish around-including male apistos-to distract them-and the only thing more females could provide is increased frequency of spawning events in the tank, and potentially more fry. To condition them without fouling the tank too much You can try spot feeding them with a pipette to keep the wasted feed down. Even though they like to feast, those little apistos can't really eat that much. You can also do frequent water changes, that can trigger spawning too.
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