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Substrate Options

3K views 22 replies 8 participants last post by  Elyssa 
#1 ·
Hi,
I was wondering what substrate would be best for a 55g tank that is already up and running, that won't make a mess.

I would like black in color, but have read a lot of negatives on the different gravels and losing their color over time. I would like to avoid that.

Definitely keeping the tank low light and low tech. Is there any way to do sand or something a little coarser with the fish remaining in there? Or am I just limited to gravel?

Thanks.
 
#2 ·
Eco Complete is a good one.
Real gravel from a landscape/Masonry/Rock yard- go see what is available locally and get some samples to test for GH, KH and TDS.

To add these:
Rinse well.
Put a large diameter pipe into the tank from above the water to where you want the new material. Drop the new material in through the pipe. Then move to a new area.
Stop if it gets cloudy. Continue in a few hours or the next day.
Clean the filter media often, the fine particles that are causing the cloudy water will get trapped by the filter media.

Next option gets it all done at once, but is more work:
Prepare enough water for a 100% water change.
Drain the tank, saving the livestock in buckets.
Alter the substrate as needed, adding hills and valleys, moving the driftwood, rocks and plants. Mist the plants as you go.

Refill, using a plate or plastic bag over the substrate. Allow the water to seep slowly over the edge of the bag. This will minimize clouding. This is such a large undertaking that you might disturb too much of the nitrifying bacteria that live in the substrate and on all the surfaces in the tank and filter.
You might want to add a bacterial supplement that includes Nitrospira.

Put in new water, then add the livestock. Do not add the water from the fish buckets. When fish are stressed they add excess ammonia and stress hormones to the water.
 
#4 ·
If you like an all black and fine grained substrate then I would definitely go with black flourite.

I have used eco-complete and it's much more course and it has hints of maroon red pieces (since it's lava rock). Flourite is just much more sandlike and is a uniform black that really makes your plants & fish/shrimp stand out with contrast. Fourite comes in black or red/brown just so you know incase you want options.

The only downside for flourite is that because it is so fine, it may cloud your water for a few days while it settles to the bottom. But after it settles it is BY FAR the best substrate out there!!!!
 
#5 ·
Diana, the pipe idea is great - I can't tell you how many times I've added substrate in "lean" areas, only to have what I'm adding tumble through the water & never land where I want it to!
 
#6 · (Edited)
Option,
I'll look into that, too. I like the contrast of all black against the plants and fish.

How much at minimum would I need for 55g.

I was just reading about the Seachem Flourite. I hear Seachem says to just put it in and it will cloud the water and clear. I'm sure this has been debated to death, but why would you want to rinse this stuff clean, if I'm sure a lot of the expense has to do with all the good stuff in it for plants. Am I missing something? Are there any alternatives to this particular brand, because looks pricey.

Thanks.
 
#13 ·
Option,

I was just reading about the Seachem Flourite. I hear Seachem says to just put it in and it will cloud the water and clear. I'm sure this has been debated to death, but why would you want to rinse this stuff clean, if I'm sure a lot of the expense has to do with all the good stuff in it for plants. Am I missing something? Are there any alternatives to this particular brand, because looks pricey.

Thanks.
Flourite is an inert substrate. It doesn't contain any of the "good stuff" that plants need. It does have a pretty good CEC, so it can hold cations, like iron, ammonium, calcium, magnesium, etc., so plant roots can use them easily. It is a nice looking, uniform texture substrate material, which I like very well. But, it is not a nutrient filled substrate.
 
#8 ·
I personally found Eco-complete to be a waste of money.

Nothing wrong with it, but it costs a lot more than the plain/cheap options and it doesn't provide all of the benefits of the more expensive nutrient rich soils.

You might consider some of the crushed black lava rock from somewhere like substratesource. http://www.substratesource.com/index.php?p=item&c=s&i=71

It is pretty comparable to Eco-complete and might be a less expensive option.

I will post some volume calculations for you in my next post.
 
#11 ·
I personally found Eco-complete to be a waste of money.

Nothing wrong with it, but it costs a lot more than the plain/cheap options and it doesn't provide all of the benefits of the more expensive nutrient rich soils.
I would have to agree. For me, aside from the looks (never really liked the mix of black/dark red/brown substrate) and the courseness (lava rock is sharp & jagged)....the biggest deal breaker for me was that being lava rock it raises your pH to levels astronomically.
 
#9 ·
The footprint of a 55 gallon tank is 48"x13" or 624 square inches.

Multiply the footprint by the depth of the desired substrate to get the volume (cubic inches).

1 inch thick substrate would require 624 cubic inches.

2 inch thick substrate would require 1248 cubic inches.

Lets use 1,000 cubic inches as an example. There are 70 cubic inches per 2lb bag of lava rock that I linked to.

1,000 (cubic inches) / 70 (cubic inches) = 14.285. Lets round up to 15 bags.

15 bags x $3 each = $45

-------------------

With Eco-complete you are probably looking at 4 or 5 bags (20lb bags, not sure on the volume in each bag) and the bags are $25 each.

-------------------

Lava rock is so porous that you have to just calculate volume rather than weight or it won't work out correctly.
 
#10 · (Edited)
madness,
LOL, thanks for the math lesson.

I like the look of the lava rock. I will look into that. I assume you have used it...how is it working for you? I need something that isn't going to mess with the PH as in raise it. How is the break down in the long run?

This is the first I've heard of it and I want to thank you for taking the time to post it. I want to cover my bases and am not into wasting $$$. Thanks again!
 
#12 ·
madness,
LOL, thanks for the math lesson. I'm looking at some of the prices and compositions and the back of my mind is saying...glorified kitty litter.....hmmm!!!

I like the look of the lava rock. I will look into that. I assume you have used it...how is it working for you? I need something that isn't going to mess with the PH as in raise it. How is the break down in the long run?

This is the first I've heard of it and I want to thank you for taking the time to post it. I want to cover my bases and am not into wasting $$$. Thanks again!
There is variance in lava rock. It sort of amounts to 'get the right type and you won't have problems.'

That is the one reason I would prefer to pay more for specifically chosen/tested/prepared lava rock like that from substrate source rather than getting some REALLY cheap lava rock from a landscaping place (which many people do) and then having to worry about testing it.

I actually have about 50lbs of the nice smaller black lava rock substrate from SubstrateSource sitting here but the tanks that I was going to use it in have not been started up yet. So I can't vouch for how it actually works in the tank but a lot of other people do and I was planning to use it for more sensitive/expensive shrimp tanks.

I didn't mean to be patronizing with the simple math but often times people end up asking for someone to do the calculations so I just went ahead and did them to start with. I didn't intend any offense. :)
 
#15 · (Edited)
Option, no offense taken what so ever. Answers like that are more helpful to me because my brain enjoys the details and facts!

I need to be careful with my PH. I don't want any chances of raising it.

Thanks Hoppy. I didn't look enough into the Flourite. But had read conflicting info and opinions of that. For the price I was assuming it wasn't inert!

Is there anyway to test the water coming out of your tap for the mineral composition? My well water is loaded with minerals and in layman speak is considered hard. I'm not running a water softener system.

Are there any *cheats*, as in okay, buy a bag of flourite for the actual areas you'll be putting the rooted plants in and then going with another material that's less pricey to fill the areas that won't be planted.
 
#16 ·
I need to be careful with my PH. I don't want any chances of raising it.
I wouldn't worry about the pH. It is the KH that is more important, by far. The pH ia just a reaction to the KH.
Is there anyway to test the water coming out of your tap for the mineral composition? My well water is loaded with minerals and in layman speak is considered hard. I'm not running a water softener system.
Yes, you can measure the GH, knowing that most of the GH will be calcium. And, you can look up, or ask for your local water company water quality report, which usually lists the "stuff" that is in the water.
I was cringing over the price of lighting last week and now it appears the substrate might be more. Are there any *cheats*, as in okay, buy a bag of flourite for the actual areas you'll be putting the rooted plants in and then going with another material that's less pricey to fill the areas that won't be planted.
Most of us keep our tank as it is for a limited time, a year or two maybe, then we want to try something else. If you use different substrate materials in different parts of the tank, or layer the substrate, when you try to remove it for doing a good cleaning of the tank, you mix it all up. Even if you leave it in the tank, the substrate will mix up from the activities of the fish and the natural mixing of fine materials moving down, and large particles moving up. Plus, every time you pull out a plant you partially mix the substrate materials. I think there is a lot in favor of using just one material for a substrate, even if it is costly.

Inert substrates work fine, just not as good as nutrient loaded substrates. You can use Black Diamond blasting grit if you want a nice black substrate, and it is very cheap. Or you can use pool filter sand, which can have a color from white to black, depending on where you live. Then, use root fertilizer tabs to get nutrients into the substrate. Those are much better economical options than using different substrate materials in the tank, in my opinion.
 
#17 · (Edited)
#18 ·
Using the 'sand' type substrates you just have to be careful when working in the tank. Removing/moving plants, netting things out, etc. because the substrate is so light that it can get messy.

Mostly aesthetic challenges rather than biological or chemical challenges.

I have black tahitian moon sand (very comparable to the black diamond stuff) in a couple of tanks and it looks great and seems to grow plants just fine as long as I keep the tanks properly fertilized. I rarely mess with the tanks though so I don't have to worry about stirring up the sand.
 
#20 ·
Elyssa,

Just to give you an idea of the discrepancy in pH between my Flourite tank vs my Eco-complete tank. The flourite tank sits at a nice, stable pH of 6.6. The eco-complete tank sits at a pH of 7.8-8.0.

I suppose for some the higher pH might be better...?african cichlids like this I think. But my fauna is mostly amazon or southeast asian fish. And for sure almost all freshwater shrimps (which I have boatloads in the flourite tank) like it at a pH of < 7.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Option,
That would suggest that eco-complete does raise the PH assuming your source water is the same and is effecting yours quite a bit. How buffered is your water? I know dropping the PH of mine is a challenge and more fidding than I want to get into and more added expense.

I think my best bet might be going with a substrate that is inert then that is one less thing to worry about.

Thanks for posting your numbers.
 
#22 ·
Elyssa,

No problem. NYC water is some of the most conducive for shrimp raising and in my experience it has definitely not dissapointed. And to answer your question - yes I have been using the same NYC tap water in both of my tanks.

So because the eco-complete tank has been having much higher pH's I have been using indian almond leaves to buffer the high pH and further IALs are also great for the fauna as well. Of course, overall I wish my pH would just stay low in that tank by itself. :angryfire
 
#23 · (Edited)
Well, I just went out earlier and purchased 100 lbs of the 20/40 Black Diamond Blasting Sand. It's funny because right on the front of the package it says in big red capital letters....PRODUCT MUST STAY DRY...

I'm starting with a 26 gallon bow front tomorrow morning & then onto the 55g.

Thanks everybody for your feedback!
 
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