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is keeping discus really that challenging?

23K views 47 replies 18 participants last post by  DavidZ 
#1 ·
I would like to get some juvenile discus to grow out and put in a planted tank but if you read the discus forums you would think you can only raise discus in bare bottom tanks. A juvenile discus in a planted tank is a death sentence it seems. Now I found some nice dime to quarter sized discus and and am thinking I can grow them out a bit in a bare bottom 10 and 20 gallon tank but once they get 3" or so I would like to move them to a larger planted tank. So does anyone here have discus?
 
#2 ·
To put it as simply as I can, keeping discus is not at all difficult, except that you need to appreciate that they are intolerant of poor water quality and conditions. So yes, they are somewhat more challenging in terms of requiring a little extra work and attention to maintain the essential water quality.
But if you follow a few simple rules: e.g., inter alia, buy healthy, well shaped fish from a reputable experienced source; give them the water temp and quality (WCS) they need; and a good diet, - and you'll succeed.
If you're seriously interested in discus, you might like to have a read of my 'Beginner's Guide to Getting Started with Discus', a Sticky in the Discus Basics for Beginners section of simplydiscus.com forum - link:
www.forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?86009-Beginner-s-Guide-to-Getting-Started-with-Discus
Your plan for getting some very young fish (say 8-10) and starting them out in a 20 gal bare-bottom tank until they grow out to near 3" is a good one, and following that, you can introduce them to a much larger, planted tank (at least 75 gals).
Here's my 75 gal planted discus tank, pics taken several months ago when the Red SnakeSkins were just around 3" - (some are now 5.5" and much more colorful) - this just to give you an idea.
http://s1105.photobucket.com/albums/h357/discuspaul/FTS-Osaka260

The only 'risk', if you want to call it that, you run in trying to raise juveniles in a planted display tank as opposed to BB all the way until they reach adult stage, is that some of them may turn out somewhat stunted - a little dirty word to say that some may not grow as large as they could, or might, in a BB tank.
Hope this helps.
Please don't hesitate to call on me if I can be of further help.
 
#4 ·
Thanks, I've been reading over at simply discus, lots of good info. My plan is to start the 7 very small discus in a 12x8x6" refugium inside the bare bottom 10 gallon (the breeder suggested I started in something smaller than a 10 gallon), them move them to a 10 gallon bare bottom tank then to a 20 gallon and then hopefully into a 55 gallon low tech planted tank (could be a 75 gallon though). I'm going to feed them mainly beef heart in the beginning then mix in beef heart and worm flake later.
 
#5 ·
Thanks, I've been reading over at simply discus, lots of good info. My plan is to start the 7 very small discus in a 12x8x6" refugium inside the bare bottom 10 gallon (the breeder suggested I started in something smaller than a 10 gallon), them move them to a 10 gallon bare bottom tank then to a 20 gallon and then hopefully into a 55 gallon low tech planted tank (could be a 75 gallon though). I'm going to feed them mainly beef heart in the beginning then mix in beef heart and worm flake later.
For 7 fish, your breeder has given you excellent advice. I would suggest though, that your young ones might be better off starting them in the 10 gal right off the bat, rather than the smaller refugium, if only for the fact that multiple, fairly frequent transfers to other tanks while young can tend to stress them more than they need to be. And the smaller tank will likely need more frequent cleaning and closer attention to parameters, based strictly on water quantity.

I know nothing about discus but find it interesting that they can stunt simply by being raised in a planted tank. Why is that?
There are a variety of reasons, but the use of a BB tank as opposed to planted mainly boils down to swimming/exercise space to build appetite in young fish, the ease of maintaining higher water quality in it, ease of rigorous tank cleaning, ability to feed messier (but more nutritious) foods, in a bare-bottom tank.
Example: feeding beefheart mixtures can easily cloud & pollute a planted tank, whereas BB allows all uneaten food to be vacced up readily & fully.
(Also provides a much easier observational and medicating environment, if necessary).
A BB environment allows discus growth to as full a potential as possible, whereas the routines involved in maintaining a planted tank, (One example is fertilizing plants & the use of CO2)- which may not be conducive to optimum fish growth).
Also planted tanks do not usually receive the rigorous and religious cleansing possible in BB, further aggravating growth possibilities.
That's about the best way I can put it. Although there are other reasons, but I don't want to write a book & bore you.
Hope that answers.
 
#6 ·
In my experience wih discus, the biggest issue is when you first get them. Usually, hey have bacterial infections etc...if you want to have discus, i reccomend either an agressive quarentine, or buing direcly from a breeder(probably the best method)...i also agree with what was posted about water quality...
 
#9 ·
I keep 7 adult discus in a 75 gallon heavily planted tank for over a year. I find it easy to keep high water quality as plants will take care of the waste. Can you believe that I do not have to change the water ( I have over twenty years of tropical fish - but not discus - keeping experience and am an aquatic plant collector and seller) even though I am feeding them beef heart every day. And my plants also grow like weed with so much nutrients in the water column.

However i have to admit the Downside with planted: discus tend to hide and are shy; some have peppering on their body. Since I got them as adult I cannot say whether they will be stunted.
 
#10 ·
I keep 7 adult discus in a 75 gallon heavily planted tank for over a year. I find it easy to keep high water quality as plants will take care of the waste. Can you believe that I do not have to change the water ( I have over twenty years of tropical fish - but not discus - keeping experience and am an aquatic plant collector and seller) even though I am feeding them beef heart every day. And my plants also grow like weed with so much nutrients in the water column.

However i have to admit the Downside with planted: discus tend to hide and are shy; some have peppering on their body. Since I got them as adult I cannot say whether they will be stunted.
You are quite right - they can do well in a planted tank so long as you do all the right things.
Your last sentence is key - if they are mature/adult size - no problem.
But if they are young ones - more often than not, you could have difficulty with proper, full growth potential - and the results could be disappointing - as many discus keepers will attest to. You just need to be careful and have good tank cleaning/maintenance routines. And yes, plants can help with maintaining good water quality.
 
#15 ·
well I got my juvies from joe gargas. These are the "dime" sized F2s he is selling on aquabid for $15 each with free priority mail shipping. Afew comments... First I bought 5 and he sent 6 just in case one did not make it (all are healthy), second these "dime" sized discus are more like quarter to silver dollar sized, finally his packaging was top notch, fitted styrofoam box with each discus in their own thermo-sealed kordon bag, these fish could live at least for a week I bet in their shipping box. I've read some negative comments about his prices/size and priority shipping but I think that I got a fine deal. Now lets see if I can keep them alive and growing!

 
#17 ·
discus are easy, atleast to me they are. one important thing is to get them from a good source that have healthy stocks. then your already a big step ahead. often time people think discus is hard is because they start off with poor quality discus that they often buy from LFS which most of the time sell bad ones that are stunted and doesnt have proper care. so when they die they assume discus are hard to keep.

its not recommended to have young discus in planted establish tank is because juvie discus requires lots of water change and food for best growth or they can be stunted and not grown to there potential. so its best to grow them out in a bare bottom tank cuz its a lot easier to clean. with juvies your goin to have to waterchange everyday and feed 5-10x times a day for optimum growth.

also depending on strains. discus can peper up in planted tanks especially with dark background and substrates. the brighter the layout of your tank the brighter the discus will be. unless you get albino's.the dont peper up or have any black markings so you can keep them in darker tanks.

from the above pic of your discus. they appear to be not good quality as you can see they are already peppering at that stage. they will most likely have peppering the rest of there lives or even pepper up some more. but if you dont mind it then its alright. but as for quality goes they are not good.

not trying to be a jerk or anything and it sounds a lil harsh but im just telling you the truth of discus. in my opinion if you really want discus in a planted tank. start off with adult discus. easier to maintain. and get them from a better source. i would recommend vendors over at simplydiscusforum and look under kenny chung in daly city. he is one of the top vendors on there and have shipments every month.
 
#16 ·
Congrats - they look real nice. Do you know what strain(s) the parents are ?
Give them good frequent feedings, regular large daily wcs if you can, and some TLC, and they'll be 'big boys & girls' in no time.
As I said before, don't hesitate to PM me if I can be of any help.
Best of luck.
Paul
 
#18 ·
Parents are a red domestic female and a wild tefe green male. Here is a vid:

http://tbas1.wiredtron.com/index.php/topic,1298.0.html

Thanks for all the help, I'll let you know if I run into any trouble. They are eating beef heart, baby brine shrimp and flakes so that is good

from the above pic of your discus. they appear to be not good quality as you can see they are already peppering at that stage. they will most likely have peppering the rest of there lives or even pepper up some more. but if you dont mind it then its alright. but as for quality goes they are not good.

not trying to be a jerk or anything and it sounds a lil harsh but im just telling you the truth of discus.
I think you might be trying to be just a little jerk but that's OK. Gargas is a great breeder and has been doing this for a long time. As far as the peppering, yeah the pic was 10 minutes after dumping them out of the bags. Time will tell what they will look like but I'm not that worried about it as this is all a learning experience for me (and a pretty inexpensive one at that).
 
#19 ·
lipadj46 -
I don't believe that's peppering at all - just the genes coming through from the parentage.
Don't worry about it for now. Give them good care & let them grow out & see what you get.
And I don't believe they're not good quality either. Their shape is not unusual for their age and size. The determination of the quality of those fish is far too early to tell.
Do your thing, and I sincerely believe those fish could turn out better than you might expect.
Keep up the good work.
Regards & good luck,
paul
 
#21 ·
Thanks, yeah I'm not really worried about it, from everything I have read they are in the too young to tell stage. I'm just going to have fun with learning a new aspect of the hobbie. Whether they turn out to be perfect specimens or to be abominations we shall see. On a side note I have noticed that some percentage of discus folks are REALLY into these fish ;) thanks again
 
#20 ·
I have to agree with everything Paul said. I feel also that they are a simple fish to keep as long as you can invest the required time that they need for proper care. Also wanted to say that anyone that wants discus think about buying the ones that the breeder intended to cull. That is what I did and all 9 are now happily doing great and their only "defect" was that they didn't have "champion" quality potential.
 
#24 ·
you can if you want, but no need to since your most likely going to do waterchange pretty much everyday for grow outs. so your water would be clear. for $50-60 each thats the price of semi adults to adults...depending on what strain and quality. i used to have 8 albino discus in my 135g at $100 each. choose wisely since theres so many strains.

old discus


 
#23 ·
Sure it can be used - don't know about adding any nutrient element though - but might give a little shade & make discus feel just a touch more comfortable (from the lighting) - thats about the best you could expect. But hey, give it a go - nothing wrong with it.
If you can afford it, shrimpnewbie - go for it - you have a great tank size for it - it's very satisfying and I don't think you would regret it.
And for what it's worth, I'll be here to help, if you ever need me.
 
#29 ·
Yes, the floaters would probably help do that - although there shouldn't be a need for them if you have a BB tank, are doing large frequent wcs, and have a good sponge filter.

Looking for discus fry in So Cal ? -
Kenny's Discus in Daley City, Ca. is probably one of, if not the best, for discus in the U.S., according to numerous experienced discus keepers on the simplydiscus.com forum. However, don't know if he breeds his own, or has access to good fry from other So Cal breeders - you could check with him, he'll probably know.
He's a very successful, reputable importer of Forrest discus from Malaysia.

i like the orangeish discus with the bright blue stripes, my favorite even if common =] not sure of the name


thanks for the info, and by nutrient soak I meant taking up some of the ammonia and nitrates, the shade will be added benefit I guess, anyone know a good place to get babies in socal? would prefer they not go a long journey =]
thanks paul, and paul is correct. kenny over at simply discus is the top vendor on that forum. he has 1-2 shipments every month imported from forest from over seas. he isnt a breeder just imports and sells them. but im sure he has some small ones for sale. and he can prolly hook you up with a great deal for left over's hes wanting to get rid of. although most of the time his shipment sells out fast. there are south american varities of discus. those are wild discus.

here his vendors page. you can email or call him and ask what he has.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forum...-s-Discus-(Kenny-Cheung)-Daly-City-California

if you want local in socal close to you. bill in rialto is your best bet. heres his page. you can contact him and arrange an appointment for you to go check out his stock and hand pick some juvies.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forum...mpire-Discus-(Bill-Schroer)-Rialto-California
 
#26 ·
i like the orangeish discus with the bright blue stripes, my favorite even if common =] not sure of the name


thanks for the info, and by nutrient soak I meant taking up some of the ammonia and nitrates, the shade will be added benefit I guess, anyone know a good place to get babies in socal? would prefer they not go a long journey =]
 
#27 ·
Yes, the floaters would probably help do that - although there shouldn't be a need for them if you have a BB tank, are doing large frequent wcs, and have a good sponge filter.

Looking for discus fry in So Cal ? -
Kenny's Discus in Daley City, Ca. is probably one of, if not the best, for discus in the U.S., according to numerous experienced discus keepers on the simplydiscus.com forum. However, don't know if he breeds his own, or has access to good fry from other So Cal breeders - you could check with him, he'll probably know.
He's a very successful, reputable importer of Forrest discus from Malaysia.
 
#32 ·
Daly City is in SF, Nor Cal, not So Cal. Bing Seto, Dick Au both reside in the SF area and have more than few comments and books on the subject.
I've gotten some of their culls for cheap, but they and others here have good stock if you wanna pay for it.

I think CO2 is FAR more a factor and feeding/food in planted tanks than ANY nutrient issues, other than NH4.....which is absent in planted tanks.
Folks worry too much about nutrients and not enough about the REAL killer, CO2.

I'm also not sure that stunted smaller discus are "bad" per se, Bonsai are not bad either and large fish in a smaller tank does not look good either.
Depends on the aquarist goal there...........And folks like to add/cram many fish into a small tank.

I've bred discus, set up massive tanks for them, and measured the planted tank parameters going back 15-20 years now. Myths abound strongly still with plants and these fish.
 
#31 ·
Just to clarify - all Discus have originated from the wild in tributaries of the Amazon river in S.A.
Most discus available these days are not wild-caught in S.A., but farm-bred in various countries of the world, and Malaysia just happens to be one the best and most prolific countries for domestic discus breeding & exporting to the rest of the world, particularly to N.A.
 
#33 ·
I bought 16 quarter size discus,

my question is can i use tap water i believe it has flouride, for very small size discus i also have sand that i bought from a swimming pool place that very small granule that i added about a month ago deciding to buy african fish, i have raise dicus before i sold them and they were adults,to make this story short ,do i have to remove the sand and make it bare,and buy bottle water from a super store 1.25 for a five gallons ,thank you mike
 
#37 ·
I was the op on this thread about a year ago so will give my 2 cents on raising young discus. Out of the 7 Joe gargas discus I started with 3 are alive at 5" and of the 6 stendkers I started with 3 are alive at 6" (one just jumped to death last week). I have done daily water changes since I got them and still they found interesting and varied ways to die from columnaris to flukes to flagellates to jumping. Now that I am experienced and have made all the mistakes, I can raise up juvies without deaths and can deal with the regular issues quite easily. But still they will keep you on your toes
 
#38 ·
I will toss this out here because I feel like it should be said, dime-quarter size discus is a little small for a beginner. You can do it, but they're much less forgiving about errors, and there's so much more you can do (or not do) to mess up their growth for the rest of their lives.


I would suggest buying like 2.3-3 inch discus, then just do a lot of water changes and feeding and wham bam you've got good discus.

Also, a 55 is small in my opinion, I'm sure you'll agree when they get to adult size. 7 fish that can be six to eight inches in a 55 with plants is a little crammed, a 75 is much more suitable.
 
#39 ·
I got my 3 discus from the same person. He sent me 4
For $30 shipped that's a real deal.

I keep my discus in tap water with a ph of 6.5
Kh n gh at 4-5 drop.

I dose npk +fe, water change 50% a week.
Feed them 2 cube DIY beef heart food, 3 time a day.

I have 1 7inch black ghost, 1 catfish. 6 rummy nose, 6 cory, 2 Otto.
 
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