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Saltwater Hobby Threat

3K views 35 replies 21 participants last post by  SMB 
#1 ·
Someone showed this on my Local Forums and think that any Saltwater advocates should know about this.

"Snorkel Bob" is now a part of the Sea Shepherds. He is a huge advocate of shutting down the marine aquarium hobby, so something to watch. It is something of concern as being a part of the Sea Shepherds gains advocates of shutting down the hobby a boost in publicity.

Here it is http://thegardenisland.com/news/local/snorkel-bob-joins-sea-shepherd-board-of-directors/article_3fc5817c-347b-11e2-b596-001a4bcf887a.html
 
#2 ·
And the conservation advocates!
 
#6 ·
I feel weird for saying this, but I agree with them... The saltwater hobby as a whole is detrimental to the marine environment. Not only does it damage populations of certain species, it also is very damaging to the ecosystem as a whole with the introduction of invasive organisms such as the lionfish in the Caribbean. Personally, I would be very hesitant about getting anything for a saltwater tank that was not possible to breed in a domestic environment.
 
#9 ·
I used to keep saltwater tanks, and I tried to get everything aquacultured/tank-raised. And live rock came from Tampa Bay Saltwater, where they're required to replace as much rock as they took out, and let it sit for a given number of years so it could re-populate with corals and fish.

The primary problem with the marine trade is that we don't actually know how much of this stuff is being removed. We know what *arrives here alive* -- that's what gets recorded. But we don't know how much dies before they even get it into a box, or how much dies in between middle men, or how much is dead on arrival.... And the practices that people use to get the fish and coral out of the water are highly destructive to the environment. Coral isn't just gently plucked off a reef -- it's usually hammered or even dynamited. Fish are often netted (and anything that isn't marketable is just chucked aside to die), stunned with electricity (which zaps everything around), or even poisoned. It just isn't cool.

And in response to a previous comment about tourism -- yes, it's destructive. But it's not destructive in the way you think it is. Direct damage to corals from people is pretty small in the big scheme of things. The real damage comes from the carbon dioxide emissions flying to and from your destination, even if you're going to Canada versus the Caribbean (ocean acidification and rising sea surface temperatures), tearing down forests to build hotels (erosion/sedimentation, wastewater treatment), flying in food to feed tourists (more CO2, and waste in general), etc.

Certainly everything we do has an impact, some things greater than others. Keeping tanks has its impact, even if we buy all tank-raised species, because we're burning fossil fuels to run lights, powerheads, filters, etc., and constantly changing/topping off water, etc. Everything is a trade-off.
 
#10 ·
I have a saltwater tank. I proudly only have captive bread fish in it. Where the rock came from I have no idea (came with the tank). We as hobbyist as a whole are not so bad. Most of us do the best we can to not buy products that have come from the destruction of nature. Yes, there are those that think they are above the rules, and do what they please. I know for a fact that Bangaii cardinals are one of the most popular fish. They are also one of the easiest to breed being mouth brooders. Yet still an entire local population was fished till none were left.

Guess why?

More demand for cheaper fish. Captive bread fish tend to be more expensive.

As a whole the aquarium trade has been destructive. We drove the demand for these fish, rock, and corals. We showed the wholesalers and retailers that we're willing to pay for that incredibly rare fish. Pay for that incredibly cute fish that turns out to be a monster sized tank buster.

Do I agree with Sea Shepherds methods? Sometimes yes, but mostly I feel they need to stick to whales. Let the aquarium hobbyist set the example.

ps: same concept applies to freshwater as well.
 
#14 ·
Although Bob seems a little confused about the different types of algae, what their roles/functions are, and who eats what, I think the overall message of conservation is warranted. And you have to understand where he's coming from. His business relies entirely on there being healthy, vibrant corals to look at. He wouldn't sell/rent much equipment if there were a bunch of dead, algae-dominated ex-reefs to look at. Tropical areas the world over are watching their reefs die from disease, bleaching and ecological imbalances created from over-fishing and eutrophication. The marine aquarium trade is just one more threat in a very long list. There is very little that he personally can do about carbon dioxide emissions, disease and over-fishing, but he CAN try to stop this one threat.

Seriously, though... and this isn't a snarky question -- what do you have against conservation? If cost were not an issue, wouldn't you prefer to buy tank-bred species versus ones that were ripped off a reef somewhere?

I think we could all do the hobby a favor if we were more conservation-minded and tried to "self-regulate" ourselves before other people do it for us. Part of the reason I switched to freshwater was because of the greater availability of farm-raised/tank-bred/aquacultured plants and fish.
 
#27 ·
He isn't banning just wild caught... He wants the whole saltwater hobby gone and uses falsified or dramatized information to do it.

If he doesn't even know what type of algae is which, he has no credibility.
 
#15 ·
I don't understand how these people think putting nature further and further out of reach for people by eliminating these plant & animal hobbies is supposed to help the environment(???).

Isn't an important part of protecting the environment having advocates among the people who care about nature?
 
#17 ·
I don't understand how these people think putting nature further and further out of reach for people by eliminating these plant & animal hobbies is supposed to help the environment(???).

Isn't an important part of protecting the environment having advocates among the people who care about nature?
I couldn't agree more - I have a 150 gallon salt tank in my classroom. I use it to talk to my students about marine ecology. Simply by maintaining one in the classroom they can see first hand the importance of keeping our environment "clean". Also the fish that I bring in are captive bread (as far as I know).

I can not take all of my students to the ocean to show them its beauty in hopes of getting them to care for the enviroment, I can however bring small parts to them.
 
#16 ·
This issue is what ultimately made me leave saltwater as a hobby in the 90s. I just couldn't justify the costs for the environment and the demands of keeping the animals healthy with MH lights and chillers... It became obvious to me that the enjoyment I derived was at way too high a cost and then the guilt set in...
 
#30 ·
LEDs = No chillers = no probelm

The reefing hobby has changed dramatically since the 90s.


ddiomede, I completely agree with you. There are a lot worse things out there and this hobby isn't one of them. I can safely say that the majority of corals people buy (all of them in my case) are frags of other aqua-cultured corals. When the both hobbies (FW and SW) started, they were crude and poor. Freshwater has had it easier than Saltwater for aqua-culturing but one thing many people haven't taken into account is income. . . . the reefing hobby is a large business, not just for the U.S. but for the whole world. Many poor coastal countries rely on Mariculture and harvesting for income and even more rely on it for jobs in the US and in Europe and in Asia. This isn't something you can just ban.
 
#19 ·
This is actually exactly why i have never gotten into saltwater tanks. We need to be only buying fish that are captive raised. I feel like people jump to the idea of a fish being "wild caught" as making the fish superior, when in fact its only damaging wild populations.

There is a compromise to be made here, but it would take a huge movement by those of use in aquarium keeping to be the responsible party. There is nothing more damaging to a local environment than an invasive species, freshwater (asian carp, snakehead), saltwater (as mentioned lionfish living along the shorelines of the South), or on dry land (example the huge influx in wild pigs in the US that are all European decent).

While i am sure that freshwater tanks have contributed in some way to invasive population of a species, I do think that as long as we are using captive bred fish, there should be no backlash on our side of aquariums.
 
#21 ·
I agree with everything already said. Great points by all and we all understand what can happen to environments when over fished and destroyed.

I don't think most people even consider where their fish came from, just that they are here, now. Most of my fish are tank raised and i can feel good in that regard!
 
#25 ·
I think there are a lot of angles to this issue. The first would be the destruction of wild habitats/depletion of wild populations. This tends to be more of a marine/reef issue then a freshwater issue, but can't be ignored because of that. Also, I believe it's less of a problem then it used to be, as I think damaging capture methods like dynamiting and cyanide were already on the decline a decade or more ago.

On the other hand, the damage the aqarium trade does to reefs is going to me negligible (as stated above) compared to the effects of climate change. rising ocean temps, increasing acidity, there is already a great loss of coral due to bleaching in some areas, and it's just going to get worse.

Overfishing for the seafood industry, while primarily targeting different environs, will also do far more damage to the ocean ecosystems then our hobby.

But our hobby is insignificantly small compared to the seafood industry, or the corporations that want to block any sort of talk about carbon emissions.

Another issue (also stated above) is the issue with releasing non-native species (or even captive raised native species, to a lesser extent). This doesn't just affect the aquarium hobby, it's a pretty big issue wit a lot of herp stuff as well. I'm sure you've all seen the pictures of the dead constrictor that swallowed an alligator and ruptured. Apparently this is becoming a problem in Florida, since the habitat is suits them pretty well.

As Bermyguy pointed out, the lionfish example wasn't due to hobbyists, but we are still going to get the blame. Many other introduction of non-native species are actually intentional acts done by the government under various conservation (and conservation is very different from environmental protection) issues. But hobbyists will get the blame; and sometimes we deserve it, I've known too many people who when they get tired of taking care of a critter, take it outside and let it go. I believe that's whey the Western Pond Turtle is in trouble out here in CA, the red-ear sliders (typical baby turtle) are competing with them. We need to make sure that we are careful not to accidentally (or intentionally) release captive critters into the wild, and do our best to educate others not to release them as well.
 
#26 ·
Overfishing for the seafood industry, while primarily targeting different environs, will also do far more damage to the ocean ecosystems then our hobby.

But our hobby is insignificantly small compared to the seafood industry, or the corporations that want to block any sort of talk about carbon emissions.
Not Too many people keep tuna or other types seafood as aquarium pets... you are mixing in 2 different issues here. Over fishing for food production and plucking animals out of the wild for keeping as a "pet" as two vastly different things. I agree with most of what you said, but I disagree on the comment about the hobby being insignificantly small. You said it yourself, all of these things come into play.

Fact of the matter is, if you are going into an environment and taking out an animal, the percentage of what is living to make it to a pet store is probably less than 50%. I do agree there are large issues at play such as the mentioned climate change that will probably alter the environments of aquatic life, but it stands true that responsibility needs to be taken.
 
#28 ·
The most invasive species is us humans. We're responsible for everything bad that is happening to the Earth. One example is the crown of thorns starfish explosion that is killing vast swaths of the Great Barrier Reef. One may ask, what is causing the starfish numbers to drastically do up? Well the answer to that is us. The runoff from fertilizers and agriculture is emptying right into the reefs and the chemicals are providing the exact nutrients the starfish need to increase in numbers.

As far as the saltwater hobby goes, I think that what is harvested is negligible compared to what global warming has done thus far. Some areas have horrid collection practices, but most have been doing it in a sustainable way. China actually goes out onto the reefs and kills giant clams by hand to collect the meat. There was an article about Paul Allen of Microsoft who was trying to locate an airplane that was chasing down Chinese poachers.

With global warming having its devastating affects on our coral reefs, saltwater hobbyists may be the only outlet to repopulating said reefs with fragments of their corals.

This clown Snorkel Bob seems like a moron who is an extreme hypocrite. Examples of what he's done are mentioned in posts above so no need for redundancy.
 
#32 ·
For those panicked about the end of the aquarium hobby -- ha. Whatever. It's never going to happen so you can stop the hand-wringing. What Snorkel Bob is doing is suing the state in an attempt to force them to conduct environmental impact assessments on extractions for the aquarium trade. He's not saying that anyone who keeps a tank should go to jail.

Personally, I would like more science-based facts about what the impact is. If we don't know, then how can we take a stance on whether ecosystems need more or less protection?
 
#33 ·
While there are certainly unscrupulous practices going on in the marine hobby, I find that the trend is going towards sustainability. For example, one of the major LFS in my area is MAC-certified, and their lionfish are caught off of the Atlantic coast.
 
#34 ·
Even if the impact is so close to "zero" that it is not measurable, it is still in no way acceptable that for every fish in a tank at the pet store there are 9 others that died.

When does the love of the hobby start to eclipse the love of the subject?

Take fish out of the wild? You bet! but responsibly and then the goal should be breed them in captivity.

my $.02
 
#35 ·
The thing is that there are captive breeding efforts in the marine hobby. It takes a lot more effort to raise Marine Fish (especially ones that have pelagic larvae stages) and people have recently been cracking very tough fish. Most people that don't have enough knowledge to keep a SW tank normally go with Clownfish anyways, which are breed extensively in the U.S.

Show me sufficient evidence of extensive use of harmful methods of collection. Even live-rock is being man-made and aqua-cultured.
 
#36 ·
I feel weird for saying this, but I agree with them... The saltwater hobby as a whole is detrimental to the marine environment. Not only does it damage populations of certain species, it also is very damaging to the ecosystem as a whole with the introduction of invasive organisms such as the lionfish in the Caribbean. Personally, I would be very hesitant about getting anything for a saltwater tank that was not possible to breed in a domestic environment.
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The fresh water keepers are not free of guilt when it comes to invasive species:
Snake Heads, Blue Catfish, etc.
The saltwater hobby is by no means perfect, but private aquarium owners have done a great deal in advancing the husbandry of marine fish and corals. In fact they put many public aquariums to shame. There is a compromise position, by keeping tank raised fish and identifying those wild caught species that do well in captivity, banning the sale of those fish that clearly have low survival rates in captivity.
It is the frag. coral industry that has made new steps in restoring some depleted reefs. As with fresh water aquariums we all have to be responsible for our systems. (I do not have a SW tank.)
 
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