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How to cycle low light low maintenence plant tank

5K views 40 replies 8 participants last post by  plantastic37 
#1 ·
I was reading rex crigg's recommendation. The thing is I cannot support any of those plants. All of the plants in my tank will be low maintenence plants so not sure how to proceed. Will probably do this:
Neon rasboras, badus badus, shrimp or two

So how should I proceed tyvm in advance!
 
#2 ·
I would do the fishless cycle no matter what tech level the tank will be, or what the livestock level.
Here is the fishless cycle.

Fishless Cycle
You too can boast that "No fish were harmed in the cycling of your new tank"
Cycling a tank means to grow the beneficial bacteria that will help to decompose the fish waste (especially ammonia). These bacteria need ammonia to grow. There are 3 sources of ammonia that work to do this. One is fish. Unfortunately, the process exposes the fish to ammonia, which burns their gills, and nitrite, which makes their blood unable to carry oxygen. This often kills the fish.

Another source is decomposing protein. You could cycle your tank by adding fish food or a dead fish or shellfish. You do not know how much beneficial bacteria you are growing, though.

The best source of ammonia is... Ammonia. In a bottle.

Using fish is a delicate balance of water changes to keep the toxins low (try not to hurt the fish) but keep feeding the bacteria. It can take 4 to 8 weeks to cycle a tank this way, and can cost the lives of several fish. When you are done you have grown a small bacteria population that still needs to be nurtured to increase its population. You cannot, at the end of a fish-in cycle, fully stock your tank.

The fishless/ammonia cycle takes as little as 3 weeks, and can be even faster, grows a BIG bacteria population, and does not harm fish in any way.

Both methods give you plenty of practice using your test kit.

How to cycle a tank the fishless way:

1) Make sure all equipment is working, fill with water that has all the stuff you will need for the fish you intend to keep. Dechlorinator, minerals for GH or KH adjustments, the proper salt mix, if you are creating a brackish or marine tank. These bacteria require a few minerals, so make sure the GH and KH is at least 3 German degrees of hardness. Aquarium plant fertilizer containing phosphate should be added if the water has no phosphate. They grow best when the pH is in the 7s. Good water movement, fairly warm (mid to upper 70sF), no antibiotics or other toxins.

2) (Optional)Add some source of the bacteria. Used filter media from a cycled tank is best, gravel or some decorations or a few plants... even some water, though this is the poorest source of the beneficial bacteria.
Bacteria in a bottle can be a source of these bacteria, but make sure you are getting Nitrospira spp of bacteria. All other ‘bacteria in a bottle’ products have the wrong bacteria. This step is optional. The proper bacteria will find the tank even if you make no effort to add them. Live plants may bring in these bacteria on their leaves and stems.

3) Add ammonia until the test reads 5 ppm. This is the non-sudsing, no surfactants, no-fragrance-added ammonia that is often found in a hardware store, discount stores, and sometimes in a grocery store. The concentration of ammonia may not be the same in all bottles. Try adding 5 drops per 10 gallons, then allowing the filter to circulate for about an hour, then test. If the reading isn't up to 5 ppm, add a few more drops and test again. (Example, if your test reads only 2 ppm, then add another 5 drops) Some ammonia is such a weak dilution you may need to add several ounces to get a reading.

4) Test for ammonia daily, and add enough to keep the reading at 5 ppm. You probably will not have to add much, if any, in the first few days, unless you added a good amount of bacteria to jump start the cycle.

5) Several days after you start, begin testing for nitrites. When the nitrites show up, reduce the amount of ammonia you add so the test shows 3ppm. (Add only half as much ammonia as you were adding in part 4) Add this reduced amount daily from now until the tank is cycled.
If the nitrites get too high (over 5 ppm), do a water change. The bacteria growth is slowed because of the high nitrites. Reducing the level of ammonia to 3 ppm should prevent the nitrite from getting over 5 ppm.

6) Continue testing, and adding ammonia daily. The nitrates will likely show up about 2 weeks after you started. Keep monitoring, and watch for 0 ppm ammonia, 0 ppm nitrite and rising nitrates.

7) Once the 0 ppm ammonia and nitrites shows up it may bounce around a little bit for a day or two. Be patient. Keep adding the ammonia; keep testing ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.
When it seems done you can challenge the system by adding more than a regular dose of ammonia, and the bacteria should be able to remove the ammonia and nitrite by the next day.
If you will not be adding fish right away continue to add the ammonia to keep the bacteria fed.

8) When you are ready to add the fish, do at least one water change, and it may take a couple of them, to reduce the nitrate to safe levels (as low as possible, certainly below 10 ppm) I have seen nitrate approaching 200 ppm by the end of this fishless cycle in a non-planted tank.

9) You can plant a tank that is being cycled this way at any point during the process. If you plant early, the plants will be well rooted, and better able to handle the disruption of the water change.
Yes, the plants will use some of the ammonia and the nitrates. They are part of the nitrogen handling system, part of the biofilter, they are working for you. Some plants do not like high ammonia, though. If a certain plant dies, remove it, and only replace it after the cycle is done.

10) The fishless cycle can also be used when you are still working out the details of lighting, plants and other things. If you change the filter, make sure you keep the old media for several weeks or a month. Most of the bacteria have been growing in this media (sponges, floss etc).
 
#4 ·
Sure thing. I typed that several years ago, based on a site that is not longer on line. A couple of scientists figured out the fastest way to grow the maximum bacteria population.
Their goal: Worst case scenario: Fully stock, and over stock an African Rift Lake Cichlid tank, all in one swoop, no plants. Gotta have 100% cycled tank for that!
 
#5 ·
I was reading rex crigg's recommendation. The thing is I cannot support any of those plants. All of the plants in my tank will be low maintenence plants so not sure how to proceed. Will probably do this:
Neon rasboras, badus badus, shrimp or two
If your tank uses soil as the substrate, the tank is already cycled. Thus, no need to cycle the tank. See Diana Walstad's book Ecology of the Planted Aquarium.
 
#8 ·
the road so far.

So I have started. On day two now. I am using DrTim's One and Only product which is supposed to have nitrospira.

Unfortunately here on Day two and I seem to have a bacteria bloom. Very, Very weird. I do not think it is the gravel as it was prerinced and tank was fine for a few days after initial setup.

Anyway I used almost half a new bottle of DrTim's per recommendation from elsewhere now questioning if that is good advice.

Got it up to 4ppm Ammonia yesterday after dosing DrTim's no trouble. This morning reading was 0.25. Brought it back up to 4ppm today.
 
#9 ·
Go to the LFS in your area and get some used filter media and add it to your filter. This will speed up the cycle a lot!

You mentioned "bacteria bloom". Do you mean algae?
Are you cycling with plants or not? If no plants and you are running lights -turn them off, bacteria doesn't need lights to populate. If with plants, decrease the light period.


So I have started. On day two now. I am using DrTim's One and Only product which is supposed to have nitrospira.

Unfortunately here on Day two and I seem to have a bacteria bloom. Very, Very weird. I do not think it is the gravel as it was prerinced and tank was fine for a few days after initial setup.

Anyway I used almost half a new bottle of DrTim's per recommendation from elsewhere now questioning if that is good advice.

Got it up to 4ppm Ammonia yesterday after dosing DrTim's no trouble. This morning reading was 0.25. Brought it back up to 4ppm today.
 
#12 ·
Java ferns ( you can get some very interesting variants ) moss and anubias. Overplant the tank. Buy more plants than you think you need. This will provide for a healthy tank from the onset and help prevent algae going forward.

A single anubias nana with 9 leaves is enough if you have a half gallon tank or so.
 
#13 ·
I know right! I definitely will do that, just limited on funds at the moment so got what I could for the time being after tank expenses and all. Although I am having trouble finding quality plants from any source right now. Drove 2 hours round trip to a location I thought would be beneficial but they did not have what I was after.
 
#14 ·
h4n here on the forums carries a lot of different ferns, anubias and mosses at a reasonable price. Send him a PM to check his current stock. His stuff will be better quality and more reasonable than anything you can buy from a LFS. It may be a stretch now, but properly planting your tank from day 1 will provide you with a better experience in the longrun. Many folks try to save a buck, underplant, and end up with algae issues. I have been guilty of this. It can really sour your experience quickly and you end up behind the eight ball in the end buying stuff to battle the algae or just giving up on a tank.
 
#17 ·
Canceling the cycle, probably no. I would, however, be wary of anything over a 5 hour photoperiod. If you have no plants using the nutrients, all you will grow is algae. Don't need light to cycle, though. I would get your driftwood set up the way you like and just leave the lights off until you get your plants in.
 
#18 ·
The real scientific studies on nitrogen reducing bacteria like the ones in our tanks is done by folks studying waste water treatment plants. These are BIG money crucial endeavours. If you google it you will find that these all of these studies find that all of these bacteria reproduce much much faster in the low eighties. Move your temp above eighty and those populations will reach full levels real fast. Otionally, you could try Seachem's Stability. It uses a sepcial waterborne bacteria which you add every day for a week. This bacteria takes care of the excess ammonia and nitrite so you can add all of your fish on day one. The lower ammonia and nitrite levels allow your filter bacs to establish faster. I have only done this once, but it worked for me that one time. I watched the levels like a hawk because I thought it must be a hoax, but I barely saw any form of nitrogen until the tank was fully cycled (8 days) and producing tons of nitrate. Also, stem plants like rotals sp. and Hornwort grow the fastest in low light.
 
#21 ·
Ah thanks for the wonderful information! I am not even sure I have low light. I must admit I am lost when it comes to this new lighting. I am from the old school watts per gallon rule but I hear things are different now (sorry not sure what the new rule of thumb is or if there is even such a thing now). I have the Aqueon Evolve 8 and the light comes with 30 white LED's and 5 blue ones
 
#22 ·
The studies that properly identified the nitrifying bacteria in aquariums are fine resources, and you are doing OK so far. Sure, more studies have been done on waste water plants, but those conditions are not exactly the same as aquariums. Many similarities, but some differences, too.

Dr. Tim's One and Only, Tetra Safe Start, Microbe Lift's Nite Out II and probably some others are good sources of the right species of bacteria. Look for Nitrospira species of bacteria, as you did. Absolutely there are other species that have been properly identified, and are included in the bottles, but Nitrospira is the key to having found a bottle with the right species. Some bottle with the 'wrong' species still have the same genus of bacteria, just the wrong species.

I would not increase the temperature beyond what the plants will handle. Mid to upper 70s is just fine.

Ignore the cloudy water, there are many species of bacteria getting going in the tank, and cloudy water is often caused by the growth of heterotrophic bacteria. Not nitrogen cycle bacteria, but beneficial in other ways. They will settle down.

If you had no plants, then it is OK to turn off the light. But keep the plants happy with the right level of light. It is not a problem at all to slowly stock the tank with plants. Just keep on feeding the bacteria. Some plants do not like a lot of ammonia, though. If you see any burn on the plants you might try dosing ammonia to only 1 ppm in the AM then 1 ppm in the PM. This will keep the maximum ammonia low enough (1ppm) for pretty much all plants, yet still keep on feeding the bacteria.

You are right that watts per gallon is not really the key anymore, especially with LED lights. Do you have access to any sort of light meter? I understand there are ways to convert some photography meter readings to PAR.
 
#23 ·
Diana,

Thanks for your helpful and detailed replies! They are VERY welcome!

So I managed to pull this from the forum here. This was from another member who contacted the company and was given this info:

"The led on the evolve 8 unit is great for plants. PAR 25.25 with a lux of 2445 ( that’s stronger than the biocube)"

 
#27 ·
Okay so it looks like whatever bacteria cause the bloom have died off and may be causing a significant ammonia spike. I have not had to add ammonia to the tank for 3 days now (been holding strong at somewhere between 4 to 8ppm, sorry I have the api test and it goes straight from 4 to 8 the results have looked more like 4 though) and we are into day 8 of the cycle. No nitrites yet.

Thanks again for everyone's suggestions and help in this thread!
 
#29 ·
I always get negative reactions to this, but my technique of cycling tanks is simply:

1) if you have it, take some media from another tank to get it started
2) stock the tank very lightly with fish
3) add some plants if you can
4) do lots of big water changes for a few weeks. so much that the ammonia and the nitrites/nitrates can't reach any toxic levels but the beneficial bacteria still starts to stabilize
5) after a month or two, it will all settle down

It seems that concept of doing huge water changes to prevent over-accumulation of ferts is well accepted, but why not use that same mentality for cycling a tank? A 50g tank with just a few fish in it will slowly develop a bacteria base and if you do a 50% water change every couple of days you aren't risking the water getting too nasty for the fish, right?

I have python connected to a tub right near the tank, so doing a huge water change is much easier than testing and fooling around with the cycle. I like the brute force approach of frequent water changes.
 
#30 ·
So the nitrties showed up about 3 days ago and are now in an area that is difficult for my API test to resolve. My API test kit goes from 2ppm right up to 5ppm and honestly they look identical!!! My Ammonia has dropped dramatically and I am having to bring it back up to 3ppm daily. I noticed in the guide that if the nitrites get over 5ppm that I should do a water change, however I really can't tell if it is over 5ppm. What do you guys recommend?

Thanks!
 
#31 ·
Just to update:

I had forgotten that I also had a backup test kit the kind you dip in the water for a second and has pads that change color in 30-60 seconds (60 for the nitrate) and it shows the nitrate is bright hot pink which does not correspond to any color on its chart which means it is off the chart for nitrite. Should I do a water change?

While this is a fresh tetra master kit I am not sure I trust the results.
 
#33 ·
Depends on which test kit I should trust, but like I stated in my previous post if you go by the API test kit which only goes up to 5ppm then it is either 2-5ppm or above (since 2 and the 5ppm indicators look nearly identical with this test kit). Then the tetra test strip says its off the charts over 10ppm.
 
#34 ·
Well I have done three 5 gallon water changes in the past 2 days (note tank is only an 8 gallon if really that). The nitrite is still in the 2-5ppm category on the API kit (hard to tell which is which when it gets to this reading). The tetra test reads that its at 3ppm with successive tests.

Not sure which to trust. Any advice here very appreciated.
 
#35 ·
The NO2 is probably fine, as long as the tests all seem to indicate ANYWHERE under 5 ppm. The tests are not that accurate anyway.
However, here is how to use them to try to get an 'in between' reading:
API tests say to start with 5 ml tank water.
Do this instead: 2.5 ml tank water + 2.5 ml distilled or RO water. Tap water is OK if there is no NO2 or NO3 in it. Do not use tap water with chloramine if you are doing the ammonia test.
Then double the test result. If the test seems to show it closest to 2 ppm, then call it 4 ppm. You could probably cut that again, perhaps 1 ml tank water + 4 ml of tap, then multiply the result by 5, but somewhere in here you are trying to get an accuracy beyond what the test kit is good for. Interesting to play around with it, and see if the 2 test kits (strip and test tube style) agree.

Excel is probably OK during cycling, but I would not use the loading dose that Seachem specifies, just the regular dosing.
_______________________________________________________
On page 2 of this thread someone asked about the fish-in cycle. It works, but is slow. For an experienced aquarist who understands patience, and is willing to put in that much work, that is fine. But it does take diligence with the water changes. Here is a rough time table:
Set up tank, add a small starter culture of bacteria from any source, probably sharing media from a well cycled tank. Plant with as many plants as you can.
Add a few fish, not to exceed the capacity of the bacteria you have shared. If you have only lightly planted the tank the plants do not count as bio filter. For a densely planted tank see my comments below.
This part of the cycle is not too bad, as long as you have properly estimated the fish:bacteria ratio.
Allow the tank to settle in, plants to get going and get many species of microorganisms growing (transferred from the old tank). Couple of weeks, maybe a month. No hurry.
Test for ammmonia, nitrite, nitrate.
Do water changes if needed. Might not be needed, remember SMALL fish load. Balance with the amount of bacteria.
Add more fish. This is where your fish:bacteria ratio is out of sync. Too many fish for the bacteria. Do not overdo it, but you are adding more fish deliberately. You actually could simple start overfeeding the original fish to supply more ammonia. Fish food is really the source of ammonia in a fish-in cycle.
Anyway, keep on testing ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. You will need to do water changes. Perhaps daily.
When the tank has cycled for that amount of fish (a week or two if you have not added too many) you can add more.

At that rate you will be carefully monitoring and doing water changes for several months while you gradually build up the fish population.
This may be fine, as long as you understand that is what you are in for.
Weekly large water changes (EI fertilizer schedule) usually fit with people's work schedule. Daily water changes (fish-in cycle) might get to be too much, after a long day of work.

Starting an aquarium with dense planting is one of the fastest cycles that can be done. I suggest this for people who already have at least one successful planted tank, so you know how to do it right so the plants hit the ground running.
A densely planted tank (so dense you cannot see the back) will support a reasonably full load of fish from the beginning. The plants bring in a fair amount of nitrifying and other bacteria on their leaves, stems and roots, and the plants themselves are nitrogen sinks. I am not so sure about someone setting up their first planted tank this way, and including a full load of fish. The plants may die, leaving them with a full tank of fish and no bio filter.

The fishless cycle, using ammonia is better for several reasons.
No risk to fish.
The new hobbyist is getting a chance to practice with the test kits.
Teaches patience.
Gives you longer to think about and research the fish list.
Allows the plants to get better rooted.
Allows the new hobbyist a chance to get to know the plants, adjust the lighting and so on while not relying on the plants as a bio filter.
 
#36 ·
The NO2 is probably fine, as long as the tests all seem to indicate ANYWHERE under 5 ppm. The tests are not that accurate anyway.
However, here is how to use them to try to get an 'in between' reading:
API tests say to start with 5 ml tank water.
Do this instead: 2.5 ml tank water + 2.5 ml distilled or RO water. Tap water is OK if there is no NO2 or NO3 in it. Do not use tap water with chloramine if you are doing the ammonia test.
Then double the test result. If the test seems to show it closest to 2 ppm, then call it 4 ppm. You could probably cut that again, perhaps 1 ml tank water + 4 ml of tap, then multiply the result by 5, but somewhere in here you are trying to get an accuracy beyond what the test kit is good for. Interesting to play around with it, and see if the 2 test kits (strip and test tube style) agree.

Excel is probably OK during cycling, but I would not use the loading dose that Seachem specifies, just the regular dosing.
Thanks for your reply! Well I tried this and it still is unreadable which means its probably more like what the Tetra test strip is stating which is 10ppm or above right now.

I don't get it. I have done 4 massive water changes in the past 48 hours and it is still this high. I When I put the water back into the system I make sure I pour it into the back chamber (sump) so it does not disturb the gravel. I did have to disturb the gravel yesterday in order to plant 30 pygmy chain swords though so maybe thats why it rose so high. Still seems like I am doing awfully big water changes and I should be diluting it.

I got nothing but time and while it would be nice to look at some fish I am not in a huge hurry I just want to make sure the cycle is not hindered by me.
 
#37 ·
I sometimes feel that the nitrite or nitrate sticks around in the substrate so that when I do a massive water change I am not really removing that much of the nitrite or nitrate.
I have often done something close to 90% water changes, yet not seen a change in the test result.

When I do a water change that includes draining the water through the substrate, then the test result shows that the nitrite or nitrate has dropped. Dig a small hole where it won't disturb the plants and siphon the water out through there. This will do something closer to 100% water change, and a lot of the water will flow through the substrate, hopefully removing the nitrite.

At the same time quit feeding the ammonia for a few days. The bacteria will not starve. It will give the Nitrospira (the nitrite removing species) a chance to catch up. Then start in with the ammonia again, but just a little bit.
Often the first group of bacteria, the ones that remove ammonia grow so fast that they just keep on producing the nitrite so fast that the nitrite removing bacteria cannot keep up.
 
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