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The solenoid valve chase, after Parker H3L

15K views 91 replies 24 participants last post by  Bettatail 
#1 · (Edited)
Good news to anyone successfully land the Parker Hannifin H3L Metering valve, there is burkert solenoid available, about 1/10 of the retail, it is the model 2822, miniature solenoid and much better than the burkert 6011.

The burkert 2822 is $200+ retail, stainless steel, only made in Germany, you can't even find this model on Burkert USA website, and have to special order and ship from Germany.
it is only 2 watt power consumption, the lowest power consumption I 've seen on the 1/8" npt ported solenoid from burkert.

Actually I've been eyeing this solenoid for more than a year, only see it available recently and the seller sell it at $25.
 
#38 ·
Update on power supplies. Instead of 100mA power supply I received 300mA one from Transtronics as they do not sell 10mA anymore.

Tested 2822 with the following two PSUs after 3 hours of work:

1) Jameco 24v DC 400mA, UL listed (eBay)
2) OEM model AD-2430L - 24V DC 300mA, UL listed (Transtronics)

With Jameco, 2822 gets very hot, can't touch. With OEM from Transtronics, 2822 stays a bit warm but not hot at all. No issues with hodling or touching it.

While 2822 was powered I measured the input voltage on solenoid (output from power supply) for both units. With Jameco the voltage reading was 27.2v and with OEM 24.8v. This may explain why 2822 gets hot with Jameco power supply.
 
#39 ·
While 2822 was powered I measured the input voltage on solenoid (output from power supply) for both units. With Jameco the voltage reading was 27.2v and with OEM 24.8v. This may explain why 2822 gets hot with Jameco power supply.
An extra 2.4V will make it that hot? That doesn't seem right to me...
 
#40 ·
Most electronics are ok with a 10% +/- range of voltage and current requirements and if its a 24 volt transformer then yes that 2.8 volts will make a huge difference. Doesn't seem like much but it is.

Anyone know what the current needed to energize that coil is???
 
#41 ·
darkblade48 mentioned it, it is 83mA,

another possible reason is that first power adapter doesn't putout the right amount of current according to the using unit(83mA on Burkert 2822), current is the main reason of heat, not voltage.
 
#42 ·
I wonder what the resistance of his coil is??? Its possible that once he put the transformer with the high voltage on it it shorted out a few of the winds. Cause at 24v @ 83ma that takes 1.9 watts of power and at 27.2v @ 83ma thats 2.25 watts of power which isn't huge difference but i believe you would be able to feel the heat difference. Now if his coil resistance was higher then normal it could be pull more then the 83ma
 
#46 ·
you got me worry a little bit, :icon_bigg I tried different 24V DC power supply on the 2822 solenoid last week, and finally, see no over heat because all adapters are switch mode type, there are always circuit boards in those adapters, I think the output current were adjusted.

BTW, I also tested the 24V AC(60Hz) Burkert 6011 solenoids. I remember on a .pdf spec sheet of a different brand of solenoid, the 24V DC power supply does work on a 24V AC(60Hz), but the actual power consumption is much higher.
This is what I did, tested two Burkert 6011, 24V 60Hz on a 24V 60Hz power supply, the solenoid is warm as those Burkert 6011, 24V DC version, but switched to several 24V DC power supply on the 60Hz model, the solenoidfs were "BURNING HOT".
 
#51 ·
I am not an electrical engineer, but from a little research this is what I think is happening:
When you flip through the instruction booklet that comes with the Burkert 2822 it tells you to use a special $250 power supply. It produces a modulated power - "The average value of voltage (and current) fed to the load is controlled by turning the switch between supply and load on and off at a fast pace" - wikipedia. This is how a switch mode power supply works via a circuit board. transformers use two opposing coils and a magnetic field to reduce voltage (and output can vary with input fluctuations). I think what is happening is these solenoids are very precise pieces of equipment and do not handle voltage fluctuation at all (like a higher output than 24v thus getting very hot or not even working). I started out with a Jamco class 2 transformer (heavy bulky plug-in, coils and a metal housing) and it just did not work that well. I ordered a switch mode power supply (light weight small plug-in, circuit board) and now it works awesome without the added heat. switch mode will always put out a constant voltage (much like the modulated power supply Burkert suggests).
 
#68 ·



Some alternatives to the clippard mouse solenoid. Both of the above pics have 0.65 watts and 10/32. No idea about pricing.

I wonder why people don't go for those "cool touch" solenoid. They are low watts and are cheap, most commonly found on Aquateks. It's a chinese manufacturer if I recall correctly. There is also a 2.4 watt warm to the touch solenoid from CS (British) that is on my Aquatic Life, again, they sell for cheap. I'm not sure about the maximum pressure they can hold but I'm certain they are usable to our hobby. Why the huge love for hot burkert ?
 
#71 ·
Not sure about the orifice size on that one. I think 1/8 might be too big? Blah, no idea. I know that it better to get a smaller orifice size for our hobby.

If you do a search on fleabay, there are some nice 10 - 20 dollar solenoid that look decent. Of course the drawback is that it is foreign asian made, might be a bit of a risk.
 
#73 ·
Sure, I'll try but I'm learning about them as well.

Voltage: AC 120v, if it's DC then you need an adapter.
Watts: anything under 4w will be good. After 7+ hours the solenoid gets hot.
Normally Closed - NC
Ports: 1/4 or 1/8 ports - Depending on your build
Orifice Small size: - example 0.06 cv , the clippard mouse is 0.025
PSI: - 0 to x value. Depending on what you need.


I think I might just get a clippard mouse with the adapter, try my luck with those fragile 10/32 ports.
 
#74 ·
The ASCO 411 valves pictured were (somebody check my facts please) Numatics "S" series valves before Numatics was folded into ASCO. They're SS, and while the .pdf says they have mounts with two 1/8" NPT ports, I've only been able to find mounts with 1/8" in and 10-32 out ports ...which makes them about the same as a Mouse.

Still, they're sexier (IMO) than Mice, and while the mount isn't SS, the price tag for both solenoid and mount is similar. So take your pick unless you can find a 1/8-1/8 mount.
 
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