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How much should I start saving up?

6K views 64 replies 24 participants last post by  Couesfanatic 
#1 ·
So I want a new tank. I want to set up a rimless Iwagumi tank, and I want it to be ADA. I also want it to be bigger than most of my tanks, so about 10 gallons. As far as ADA goes, I was thinking either the Mini L or the 45P. I kind of like the dimensions of the 45P better than the Mini L.

So do you think I could do an Iwagumi setup with HC, Blyxa japonica, and Staurogyne repens (some of my favorites) with pressurized CO2 (paintball) and a stand (homemade) for about $300? Is it even possible? I'm at a loss as for lighting, so suggestions are welcome.

Also: I want a canister filter. Suggestions are welcome as to what I should use for this. Lily pipes, etc too.
 
#31 · (Edited)
I'm with A Hill on the price front. You can do it for $300 but realistically, it's probably a good idea to save more. Even if you don't spend it all at once? You'll eventually have to sink it into the tank.

45P, I think, has a bit more depth and it's easier to go the Iwagumi route than with a Mini L.

You can definitely get a great Eheim for cheap. I picked one up on Fleabay (2213) for about $40 shipped. It'd been used for about a year but works perfectly. You can occasionally find them here in the SnS for $75ish shipped. That is, if you're willing to wait a bit until you have all the right stuff. If you go the SunSun route, consider snatching up one with a built-in UV filter or included in-line UV filter. You may never use the UV but it's a nice feature to have.

Archea fixtures are terrific for ADA tanks. They look as nice as they perform, in my experience. But if you truly want to go the budget route, consider standard clamp-style shop lights from your local hardware store and 6500K CFLs. $5-$7 per fixture (you can even remove the clamp and suspend them from above for a nice look) and $4-$5 per bulb. ZooMed also makes nice, deep, black dual-bulb fixtures that you can pick up for $30-$40. No where near as attractive as the Archea fixture, though. And less cost efficient than the clamp lamps.

When it comes to paintball CO2, I recommend finding someone on the SnS to sell a standard regulator to you for cheap. I've picked them up for $20-$40 on a number of occasions. Just another $15 for a paintball adapter so you can use the regulator. Also consider spending the $40-$50 for a solenoid kit. Makes life way less complicated and safer. Maybe also consider having a couple extra paintball tanks filled and ready to go so you always have a backup, as well.

When I did my last 45P in the office, here's my price breakdown (not that you'd spend the same, just what we spent):

$87 for the tank
$40 for 2213
$30ish for a glass cover + stainless steel holders/clips/thingies to hold the glass in place
$20 on rock
$20 for plants
$60 on shrimp + snails + other stock
$100 for lighting
$50 for lily pipes
$132 for substrate and such (ADA)
$30 for an in-line CO2 diffuser
$130ish total for a full paintball setup with regulator, solenoid and two paintball canisters
$30 for electrical & timers

On edit - forgot a couple things:
$50 for in-line heater
$10 for clear filter hoses from hardware store (get them - especially if you're using lily pipes, it's worth the cost)

Was in no way cutting costs but I hope that makes it a bit easier for you to see realistic prices. Without trying, we sank a ton of money into it. Lots of wiggle room, though, and you can easily do it for cheaper.
 
#37 ·
Maybe he bought powersand and all the other additives like bacter100 and penac.

I'd get a 9L bag of aquasoil just in case, it's not too much more and it's always good to have more than less and have to order another 3L bag.

for light, you can easily build a nice LED light for 100 bucks. I'm running 9 LEDs over my girlfriend's mini-L. If i didn't get the controller, I could've done it for under 100 bucks.
 
#38 ·
Yep - bought all the goodies with Aquasoil + shipping. I think that price also included a bag of powder type to go along with it.

DEFINITELY get a 9L bag. 3L won't be enough for any sort of nice Iwagumi scape. 3 would maybe be enough for a super-flat bottom covering, though.

Had the glass cover cut at a local shop. Much cheaper than ordering from AFA.

That tank's in my Flagstaff office. Will try to snap some photos when I'm there in a couple weeks.
 
#39 ·
@Jake: that's what I was thinking about the AS. How much should I plan on spending on rocks?

On a side note, what kind of office is it? Because the only places I have ever seen tanks are doctors offices, dentists, and restaurants and they all suck lol
 
#42 ·
For rock, it depends on your source and what look you're going for. I'm a fan of lace rock (the kind I used here) because of the way it ages in fresh water. Also provides tons of little cavities for shrimp to hide and it's usually easy to find in local fish shops. Usually $1-$2 per pound. $20 last bought me enough to fill a five gallon bucket all the way up. Typically buy more than I need and have it laying around for the inevitable next tank.

If you want the really fancy stuff that most people use in ADA Iwagumi tanks? Probably $30-$40.

While it's not always easy to find exactly what you're looking for, I think it's best to go to every local pet store (or landscape companies) in your area that you can feasibly get to. Look at all the rock available and make your decision that way. Since you're making an effort to make this setup exactly what you want, I say make the effort to go on a nice rock hunt. You'll end up with more than you need and will get tons of layout ideas. (NOTE: if you plan on digging through large bins of rock and stacking stuff in an aisle to see what looks best, alert a salesperson so they know you're about to nerd out. My local folks have grown to expect that from me but it's sometimes a shock to folks if I'm in a new area. "OH MY GOODNESS! What is this shavey-headed guy doing with all that rock in the floor?!")

Also - if you have access to a boat, sometimes it's interesting to go trolling for rock in area lakes and rivers.

Just one of my company's offices. Often a stressful environment for staff… so I started keeping tanks in my main office a few years ago. Now trying to do so in both locations because it's not just a lot of fun for me - and an excuse to waste even more time and money that, you know, doesn't need to be wasted - it's been a great morale booster. When work life is tough or hectic, it's always nice to have a creative outlet. And most people never really see or understand planted aquariums until they're exposed to those us TPT folks keep, I've found.
 
#43 ·
The general consensus here is that you should rifle your kid's college fund and sell your wife's diamond wedding ring for the hobby, but only if she is not wearing it at the time. (Some would debate that requirement)

I would think a good rule of thumb is $50 per gallon. You could go cheaper, but in the end, it will be $50 per gallon, after you add in lights, a good tank, substrate, plants, fish food, test kits, filters, heaters, fish, shrimp, stand, cover, heater, food, electric outlet strips, replacement filters, dechlorinator, bacteria start. Cheap costs, and you could buy cheap, but it will only break ... so in the end $50 per gallon.

You can bring that down... if you are smart.
 
#48 ·
Let's take an imaginary 10 gallon tank.

$ 30 - 10 gallon tank (probably cheaper)
$ 20 - cover - incandescent
$ 15 - two CFL (florescents to put in the incandescent socket)
$ 20 - Petco Sand or MGOPM
$ 40 - Aquaclear 30 or equivalent
$ 50 - Aqueon Pro Heater 100 W (top end - no glass)
$ 60 - Stand or furniture
==========
$235

Plants
4 species @ $8 each roughly. Your grow the rest
Bacopa, Water Sprite, Anubia, and Java Ferm

$ 32
$ 8 Moss Ball
$ 8 Java Moss
$ 8 Water dechlorinator
$ 8 bacteria
$ 20 Food
$ 25 spare foam, carbon/purigen/bioballs
The foam is cheap. The bioballs you do not have to replace. Only the carbon or purigen. So in reality $25 is for spare carbon + form + purigen.
===========
$109

Sub total $344

$100 for the fish and you come in under $444

If you want to buy an EHEIM or high end lights, then you will pay more.

If you go for ADA aquasoil, or ADA tanks, then you will pay more.

$50 a gallon is very doable, if you are not going high tech.

You can even get low-iron glass tanks, relatively cheap.

Right now, Tropiquarian in Asbury Park is selling

a 10 gallon Deep Blue professional tank
with stand, Deep Blue filter, and T-5 flourscent cover + 100 W heater
for $100.

If you are willing to live with a glass heater, and a smaller filter, then you can go way under $50 a gallon.
 
#50 ·
I do not see the need to go ADA.

You can get low-iron tanks, aesthetically pleasing for much less.

http://aquatop.com

makes some reasonably nice low-iron glass.

ADA soil is good, but not so good that it is worth 4x the price.

I have never understood the necessity of an EHEIM on anythng under 20 gallons.

And lighting, while important on a planted tank, is not as centrally important as on a reef tank.

If you are putting that much money into a planted tank, then go reef.

Frankly, on a smaller tank ... some of the one in all sets are good.
 
#51 ·
I see the need to go ADA. I've seen those aquatop tanks, they are not as nice and clean looking as ADA.

An eheim 2211 is the best filter there is in its size.

What a lot of you are missing is that the price does not matter. We are concerned with aesthetics. We are willing to pay a few extra dollars to get the best. Why get a good looking/functional tank and equipment when we can have the best looking/functional tank and equipment available.

You may be ok with the all in one kits, but I despise those ugly cheap things.

Like the genius just said, it's a matter of preference. I prefer to have the nicest nano available.

If I wanted a reef I would do a reef, but I don't want a reef.
 
#54 ·
I guess it comes back to what you can afford and where you come from too. I have always been a middle of the road kind of guy. I don't buy the cheapest, but I also refuse in most cases to buy the most expensive. Some people throw money to the wind, some bargain hunt.

From what I know though, I don't think anyone buying the most expensive stuff for their tank setups is wasting money. In fact, my only major complaint is the ADA tanks. But do they look amazing? Sure do. I just have never seen, and probably never will, a real side by side comparison of a lot of this stuff.

Seems like reputation is king too. Everyone knows what is cheap, what is middle, and what is top of the line.

And that goes for a lot of things. Someone might build up their vehicle for speed and spend $1000 on something that may only gain them 1HP, and people would probably scratch their head at them LOL.

I considered an ADA tank I saw for sale on here. Even used it was still the same price as a Schruber Wright (sp?) or Aquatop LOL. But I would have taken it, just never heard back from the person.
 
#56 ·
I have to disagree with a lot of people. I have a high tech 75g that I have spent just over $700.00 on. The tank and stand came used, but everything else was new. That includes two high end canister filters, and a pressurized co2 setup. If you shop around you can get exactly what you are looking for at a good price.

As for lighting: If you can hang a light then check out Aquaponics stores. I am going to be getting a new light soon for $140 for my 75g. It's a 4 bulb system with awesome reflectors, then I can sell my other light. They have 2-4 bulb systems that will fit well above a 10g and they are usually under $50 at my local shop. They are also T5 setups.
 
#57 ·
I don't think you understand the point everyone is pointing out. When you are passionate about the hobby, you want the best. For an ADA 45P, my lfs sells them for $89 so I have no problem dropping some money on a tank that nice. Simple truth is that ADA Aquasoil is the best out there right now, and it only costs twice as much as eco- complete. Sure with some of ADA's products their name raises the price some, but not like most things with big names. Comparing DBP and ADA is laughable. DBP has nice tanks but they are rimed, rimless tanks are just nice looking than a rimmed tank, so rimless has more aesthetic value. If you were to have a tank made with low iron glass locally, it would be around the same price, slightly less because the silicon job won't be as nice, and the low iron glass won't be as low iron as ADA, IME. If you want to rant on people that are worse, then go to the shrimp forum where they are paying 50 dollars a shrimp ( some even way more than that).
 
#60 ·
I'm just going to add this small tidbit in about ADA prices in regards to some items.

Well put.

Some of the items, such as glassware and tools, are all handmade, and subject to extremely limited availability, even as a distributor. A lot of the specialty glassware only has a certain amount made per month, so if say we're talking about Cabochon Ruby, and if the craftsman can only make 50 Cabochon Rubies each month, then there's only going to be 50 for the whole world, including the three largest markets; Japan, China and India.

So for us in the States, on most of these items it requires a three month reservation on my part to obtain most of the glassware and tools. And we're not talking huge quantities here - we're talking 3 or 4 Cabochon Ruby's. So even in the case of cost for an item like that, we could throw as much money as we wanted at it, but it still wouldn't change that we can only get a hold of 3 or 4 at a time for the entire US.

In the end, you're talking about a very difficult item to make, to the quality it's made at, with expensive materials, expensive labor (Japanese labor for the most of the glassware, Super Jet, etc), and long time lines for a very limited world wide quantity.

You'd be surprised how many times even the seemingly simpler to make glassware, such as Pollen Glass Beetle 50, is just not available even at the source. It's not totally uncommon for there to be a good 4-5 month wait list on the most exclusive specialty items. The core of it all is, the manufacturing / crafting time is the same as it was in 2004, and demand is 10x higher than it was in 2004, with a saturated Japanese market and a rapidly expanding Chinese, Indian, Vietnamese and European market. Speaking of Cabochon Ruby, it took me two years to get one (well, mostly because I put my customers first in line), and I freakin import the stuff. 70 bucks is cheap for that when you think about it from that perspective anyway.

So in a way, I can see how elitism comes into play a little bit here. We're talking about items where there might be only 20 of them in the whole USA for an entire year, or something that 0.00000006% of the population owns.
Very cool insight from the internal workings of ADA.
 
#59 ·
I'm just going to add this small tidbit in about ADA prices in regards to some items.

Some of the items, such as glassware and tools, are all handmade, and subject to extremely limited availability, even as a distributor. A lot of the specialty glassware only has a certain amount made per month, so if say we're talking about Cabochon Ruby, and if the craftsman can only make 50 Cabochon Rubies each month, then there's only going to be 50 for the whole world, including the three largest markets; Japan, China and India.

So for us in the States, on most of these items it requires a three month reservation on my part to obtain most of the glassware and tools. And we're not talking huge quantities here - we're talking 3 or 4 Cabochon Ruby's. So even in the case of cost for an item like that, we could throw as much money as we wanted at it, but it still wouldn't change that we can only get a hold of 3 or 4 at a time for the entire US.

In the end, you're talking about a very difficult item to make, to the quality it's made at, with expensive materials, expensive labor (Japanese labor for the most of the glassware, Super Jet, etc), and long time lines for a very limited world wide quantity.

You'd be surprised how many times even the seemingly simpler to make glassware, such as Pollen Glass Beetle 50, is just not available even at the source. It's not totally uncommon for there to be a good 4-5 month wait list on the most exclusive specialty items. The core of it all is, the manufacturing / crafting time is the same as it was in 2004, and demand is 10x higher than it was in 2004, with a saturated Japanese market and a rapidly expanding Chinese, Indian, Vietnamese and European market. Speaking of Cabochon Ruby, it took me two years to get one (well, mostly because I put my customers first in line), and I freakin import the stuff. 70 bucks is cheap for that when you think about it from that perspective anyway.

So in a way, I can see how elitism comes into play a little bit here. We're talking about items where there might be only 20 of them in the whole USA for an entire year, or something that 0.00000006% of the population owns.
 
#61 ·
I recently set up a planted 5 gallon tank. Only cost me £50 which is about $75 for you. However, I already owned a spare tank, heater and rocks. The costs only included the plants, substrate, new lights etc. If you factor everything else in, it costed me about £153 which is about $230
 
#62 ·
This might help, my estimated cost for this shrimp setup will cost 130-175$
Rimless 7.5G cube (Looks like mr aqua) 35$ (after tax)
Finnex FugeRay 12" (Amazon) 44$
2 Bags of UP shrimp sand 40$
Plants (Carpet plants/background) 25$
Dual Sponge filter 2$
Old Air pump from 75G (Costed 15$)
That is about $161, I still need to get 10 CRS for about 30$. :)
Good luck!
 
#63 ·
My only problem is tank prices. At the same time, I would be wary of trying anything cheap, wondering if they are cheaper because they are poorly made or cheaper because they found a way to just do it cheaper.

Then again, if Audi's and BMW's were as cheap as Hyundai's, everyone would probably own one LOL
 
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