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Fully cycled already?

4K views 69 replies 13 participants last post by  Virto 
#1 ·
I started cycling my tank on the 13th ... today i did my normal water change and tested the water and was shocked to see 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and 5+ ppm nitrates

however my tests never read any nitrites ... so i am wondering is my tank truly cycled or not
 
#28 ·
You definitely run the risk of harming your cycle fish; it's unavoidable. That's why super hardy species that can hack this sort of thing are best. It's kind of hard to get around that unless you do a fishless cycle. Still, by keeping levels low, you're most likely extending the time measurable ammonia will be around, which stressing your fish in a similar way. By doing an aggressive no water change cycle, when it's complete, the tank is CYCLED and future additions of fish are very unlikely to cause any ugly spikes of anything dangerous. What you want is a bacterial population explosion.

I would definitely wait on any new additions. What you have going now is more than enough to cycle it. Just wait, measure and watch. The day the nitrites vanish (and they will vanish seemingly overnight), do a 90%+ water change (carefully since you have fish and I would skip the gravel vac for a couple months (or forever) since you are presumably planting), double check your water perimeters, and go hit your LFS and get something cool. No worries or doubts at that point.

The only other consideration is that like any other population, your bacterial population will slowly adjust to the amount of ammonia and nitrite is has to feed on. So, the days immediately after the nitrite vanish, you will have an extremely strong bio filter. If your tank stays will a super low bio-load for a longer time (no new additions), you won't have to re-cycle it, but you will want to make future expansions to the population in relatively small groups a week or so apart to allow the bacteria population to keep up with the increase in nutrients.
 
#29 ·
all i am adding is 3 shrimp ( decided against a mystery snail)

thanks i was thinking i would wait ... just felt i would ask.

also a side note ... i will be using this tank to cycle my next one in a few months so i dont have to do this again lol
 
#31 ·
well i can help ... i was going to run the second filter in this tank and use some substrate from this tank in the other ... it may not be perfect but it should be much easier on myself and the future inhabitants
 
#32 ·
You can certainly instantly cycle a new filter/tank if you take enough bacteria from an established tank to support the bio load in the new tank. I don't suggest doing that in this case since the "old" tank will still be relatively newly established, but it can be done. I do it all the time using media from my big tank to instantly cycle my small ones.
 
#33 ·
I see your point Wendyjo, but I would consider that transplanting a partial bio filter which may be sufficient for a limited bio-load. "Cycling a tank" is to have all surfaces become colonized to their fullest extent, allowing a tank to reach it's fullest bio-load potential.

When I used to set up reefs professionally, anytime I used to move live rock from it's curing bin to a show tank, I was transplanting a bio filter. However it still takes time for that bio filter to reach it's full potential by spreading throughout the tubes, glass, substrate, filter media, heater, foam, skimmer, yadda, yadda, yadda. A "sterile" 75 gallon just loaded with 150 lbs of cured live rock, doesn't have the same bio capacity that same tank 3 months later. That's why I support the full high level cycle. It's definitive and highly effective. Guesswork sucks in this hobby.

Now, transplanting a lot of "seed" can certainly speed up the process since a larger proportion of surface are is already covered with bacteria.

I guess the moral of the story is that there's more than one way to cycle a tank. (just don't do too many water changes!)
 
#35 ·
How you cycle (on a long enough timeline) doesn't matter. The result is the same. Wendyjo's method will give you a passable bio-filter right way, but it will still have to mature over time. My method will give you a super powered bio-filter in about a month, but it's a rough ride getting there. Both methods will result the the same bio-filter after a 3-6 months. It only takes a drop of water or a single piece of gravel to seed a new tank for cycling. If you add more, it's going to prevent population "explosion", or you may never notice "explosion" because all of your ugly is being used so it never accumulates. Remember though, this method never allows the ammonia and nitrites to get super high, so the growth from medium effectiveness to full-on will be slower.

Minimal seeding = high levels of ammonia that will crash all at once, spiking high levels of nitrite, which will again crash all at once (about 30 days later). Full tilt when done.

Lots of seeding = instant bio filter which may (or may not) be sufficient to handle your bio load. The increase in bacteria population beyond what you introduced will take time, because it never has that glut of nutrients to feed it's population "explosion". Low and slow, but it may be enough that you never notice it lacking.

3-6 months, both results are identical.
 
#37 ·
Today's test ammonia. 25 , nitrites .25 and nitrates 5 pom

Our tap Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 5ppm

I am going to update this thread daily just to be sure everything is coming along as it should
 
#38 ·
I commend your attention to doing things right, but don't let it keep you up at night. Test daily, and you'll learn a lot about the process.

You will see your ammonia spike, then drop inversely to a big rise in nitrites. That will peak, then they too will drop way off to zero and you're done.

Leave the water changes until your done and don't sweat the details. Nature will make this work, regardless of how you try to influence it. Just sit back and enjoy the process. Once it's done, you'll be a pro.
 
#39 ·
My concern is for my fish ... I am testing daily and letting off water changes as recommended, but u don't want to lose Finn

I should have a bunch of plants getting here next week so hopefully I wont have a nitrite spike

I hope I don't seem annoyingly obsessive
 
#41 ·
When I cycle a tank, I conceded that the fish cycling the tank is going to have a rough time. It just is. If the well being of you fish is of paramount importance, which is a good thing, wait it out, go low and slow, and plan on not adding any new fish/invert additions for at least another 4-6 weeks. In the process, see if you can get some good seed from another "HEALTHY" tank. Dirty gravel is good. That is more of Wendyjo's method, but it will have the least risk to your fish.

I've never lost a single saltwater fish during cycling and only a couple fresh water over the years. But I choose really, REALLY HARDY fish for cycling, sometimes removing them when it's all over to put more desirable species in. I cycled 9 saltwater tanks with a single three striped damsel I called Jorge. Dude was awesome.
 
#42 ·
Thats the problem there are no healthy tanks I know of in my area I DO NOT trust our LFS or any of the chain stores ... I know I have seen ich on at least a few of the fish.

What exactly is your method Wookie? Just put the fish in and let it go? I am just curious.

I will let it go until my test results come out too high ... Then I will change some water.

How High can I let the nitrites get?
 
#43 ·
Yes, I put them in, feed them and let it go.

To be completely honest, you are getting far too caught up in the details. Keep your hands out of your tank, enjoy your fish, and let it happen. Also, don't try so hard to be perfect in your technique. It will eventually rob you of your enjoyment. You strive to be a knowledgeable and responsible fish owner, and that's awesome, but I'm going out on a limb here, you're probably thinking far too much about it. Most people's tanks cycle and they're not even aware of it. If you're worried about your fish, get a ton of plants, toss them in (they're bringing in everything (good and bad) anyway) and stay away from any new animal life for at least a month. At the end of the month, do a huge water change and get some more fish. You don't even need your ammonia and nitrite test kits if you wait long enough. Nature will take it's course regardless of what we do.

Also, don't be too obsessed with what is in fish store tanks. Even if you don't see it, it's there. Other than gill flukes and other parasites (and even sometimes with them too), all the nasty stuff is there all the time and in the water they come with. Sure it's good practice to discard bag water when you buy a fish, but don't kid yourself, a single drop on the body surface of the fish carries hundreds if not thousands of pathogenic particles. Keep your fish in good condition (well fed with variety and good water perimeters (stable temps, dHG and dKH (and PH to some degree) and they won't get sick. Their immune systems keep them healthy, not a sterile environment (because there's no such thing). Even if you go to a fish store and see a tanks with no sign of trouble, those same tanks and a large portion of that water, was there a week before when there were issues. You can't stop the germs.

Relax and enjoy your hobby. No more about cycling! :icon_bigg It's all good! :proud: Start a tank journal and post some pics :icon_mrgr
 
#44 ·
I do have a tank journal up :p Go check it out ... I don't want to keep him in a sterile environment ... I don't believe in that crud. I am an obsessive researcher and I love it ... Its not the fish I am enjoying so much as setting up his habitat ( I wish I could set up habitats as a career I LOVE IT )
 
#45 ·
Fish-In cycle:
Do enough water changes (frequency and volume) to keep the ammonia under .25ppm and the nitrite under 1 ppm.

Ammonia burns the gills and the tender tissue in the fins and elsewhere. Think of the worst sore throat you ever had. So bad it hurts to breathe. That is what ammonia does to gills.

Nitrite crosses the gills, enters the blood so that the blood does not carry oxygen very well. Look up Brown Blood Disease. Add 1 teaspoon of salt (NaCl) per 20 gallons to reduce the amount of NO2 entering the blood.

When this sort of cycle is complete you have grown only a small colony of bacteria, enough to handle the waste from the fish you used to supply the ammonia. To add more fish you will have to go very slow, and allow the tank to cycle over and over again. Each cycle will go faster, once there is a starter colony, but you are still exposing the fish to toxins. Fish that are exposed to ammonia or nitrite are stressed, injured, and may never fully recover.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Fishless cycle:

You too can boast that "No fish were harmed in the cycling of your new tank"
Cycling a tank means to grow the beneficial bacteria that will help to decompose the fish waste (especially ammonia). These bacteria need ammonia to grow. There are 3 sources of ammonia that work to do this. One is fish. Unfortunately, the process exposes the fish to ammonia, which burns their gills, and nitrite, which makes their blood unable to carry oxygen. This often kills the fish.

Another source is decomposing protein. You could cycle your tank by adding fish food or a dead fish or shellfish. You do not know how much beneficial bacteria you are growing, though.

The best source of ammonia is... Ammonia. In a bottle.

Using fish is a delicate balance of water changes to keep the toxins low (try not to hurt the fish) but keep feeding the bacteria. It can take 4 to 8 weeks to cycle a tank this way, and can cost the lives of several fish. When you are done you have grown a small bacteria population that still needs to be nurtured to increase its population. You cannot, at the end of a fish-in cycle, fully stock your tank.

The fishless/ammonia cycle takes as little as 3 weeks, and can be even faster, grows a BIG bacteria population, and does not harm fish in any way.

Both methods give you plenty of practice using your test kit.

How to cycle a tank the fishless way:

1) Make sure all equipment is working, fill with water that has all the stuff you will need for the fish you intend to keep. Dechlorinator, minerals for GH or KH adjustments, the proper salt mix, if you are creating a brackish or marine tank. These bacteria require a few minerals, so make sure the GH and KH is at least 3 German degrees of hardness. Aquarium plant fertilizer containing phosphate should be added if the water has no phosphate. They grow best when the pH is in the 7s. Good water movement, fairly warm (mid to upper 70sF), no antibiotics or other toxins.

2) (Optional)Add some source of the bacteria. Used filter media from a cycled tank is best, gravel or some decorations or a few plants... even some water, though this is the poorest source of the beneficial bacteria.
Bacteria in a bottle can be a source of these bacteria, but make sure you are getting Nitrospira spp of bacteria. All other ‘bacteria in a bottle’ products have the wrong bacteria. This step is optional. The proper bacteria will find the tank even if you make no effort to add them. Live plants may bring in these bacteria on their leaves and stems.

3) Add ammonia until the test reads 5 ppm. This is the non-sudsing, no surfactants, no-fragrance-added ammonia that is often found in a hardware store, discount stores, and sometimes in a grocery store. The concentration of ammonia may not be the same in all bottles. Try adding 5 drops per 10 gallons, then allowing the filter to circulate for about an hour, then test. If the reading isn't up to 5 ppm, add a few more drops and test again. (Example, if your test reads only 2 ppm, then add another 5 drops) Some ammonia is such a weak dilution you may need to add several ounces to get a reading.

4) Test for ammonia daily, and add enough to keep the reading at 5 ppm. You probably will not have to add much, if any, in the first few days, unless you added a good amount of bacteria to jump start the cycle.

5) Several days after you start, begin testing for nitrites. When the nitrites show up, reduce the amount of ammonia you add so the test shows 3ppm. (Add only half as much ammonia as you were adding in part 4) Add this reduced amount daily from now until the tank is cycled.
If the nitrites get too high (over 5 ppm), do a water change. The bacteria growth is slowed because of the high nitrites. Reducing the level of ammonia to 3 ppm should prevent the nitrite from getting over 5 ppm.

6) Continue testing, and adding ammonia daily. The nitrates will likely show up about 2 weeks after you started. Keep monitoring, and watch for 0 ppm ammonia, 0 ppm nitrite and rising nitrates.

7) Once the 0 ppm ammonia and nitrites shows up it may bounce around a little bit for a day or two. Be patient. Keep adding the ammonia; keep testing ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.
When it seems done you can challenge the system by adding more than a regular dose of ammonia, and the bacteria should be able to remove the ammonia and nitrite by the next day.
If you will not be adding fish right away continue to add the ammonia to keep the bacteria fed.

8) When you are ready to add the fish, do at least one water change, and it may take a couple of them, to reduce the nitrate to safe levels (as low as possible, certainly below 10 ppm) I have seen nitrate approaching 200 ppm by the end of this fishless cycle in a non-planted tank.

9) You can plant a tank that is being cycled this way at any point during the process. If you plant early, the plants will be well rooted, and better able to handle the disruption of the water change.
Yes, the plants will use some of the ammonia and the nitrates. They are part of the nitrogen handling system, part of the biofilter, they are working for you. Some plants do not like high ammonia, though. If a certain plant dies, remove it, and only replace it after the cycle is done.

10) The fishless cycle can also be used when you are still working out the details of lighting, plants and other things. If you change the filter, make sure you keep the old media for several weeks or a month. Most of the bacteria have been growing in this media (sponges, floss etc).
 
#46 ·
I have been keeping his ammonia very low But why so much information on the fishless cycle when I am doing the fish in cycle?
 
#48 ·
I don't have the attention span for all these long posts ... I am A.D.D. to be honest I just skim them i cant get my mind to settle on them so they don't help me. I do appreciate it and I know fishless is way better but if I felt I could do fishless ( Or even get my hands on ammonia) I would be doing it with my current tank.


And ... Now I feel like I am going to throw up because nerves and conflict ...
 
#49 ·
Dude, don't stress :cool:. Diana also gives very valid information on yet another way to do this. :D Just go with your gut, have a great time :bounce:, and expect to make some mistakes along the way. :icon_redf Remember, over the course of another 4-6 weeks or so, you'll have the same thing anyway. :icon_wink You're half way there! :proud: Pick a method (fish-in since you already have one) and run with it. :red_mouth

I also think I just set the record for the highest word/smiley ratio!!! :biggrin: (time to take that off my bucket list!) :angel:
 
#50 ·
LOL you are awesome Wookie :p

I have a few months before the next tank will be set up ( Last thing I want to do is move in the winter with a delicate species)

I am still a little confused but thats normal lol I have a lot going on right now.
 
#51 ·
When this sort of cycle is complete you have grown only a small colony of bacteria, enough to handle the waste from the fish you used to supply the ammonia. To add more fish you will have to go very slow, and allow the tank to cycle over and over again. Each cycle will go faster, once there is a starter colony, but you are still exposing the fish to toxins. Fish that are exposed to ammonia or nitrite are stressed, injured, and may never fully recover.

Diana, I respectfully disagree with this statement. The pre-cycled accumulation of ammonia, creates a "virtural bio-load" which is quite a bit larger than what your cycle fish produce on an ongoing basis (otherwise it wouldn't stress the fish), thus spiking nitrites higher, thus giving you a rather large colony of bacteria. Before your bacteria bed is established, it accumulates to high levels because it gets "backed up".

Now, once that spike as occurred and fallen, the bacterial population will start to dwindle based on it's ongoing nutrient source being significantly less, but that's the same regardless of what method you use, thus having to add fish slowly as you move on is the case in with both methods unless you add a large bio-load immediately after the cycle "explosion", but that comes with it's own set of problems.

Of course, if you were talking about using the fish-in method while keeping levels low through water changes, then I've just negated my own comment, because you'd be exactly right :biggrin: (still the same in the end though)
 
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