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20 Long Rock Pile...V2...Now with Nano!

6K views 35 replies 11 participants last post by  talontsiawd 
#1 · (Edited)
Some of you followed my other thread on this tank here- http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/tank-journals/154135-20-long-rock-pile-update-5-a.html#post1587111

I decided to start a new thread because my original goal of this tank was scraping together to make a pretty low tech tank. You can see the specs but it was basically some old lighting, some HOB's and a $20 20 long. Even the substrate was recycled from old tanks. This tank was hidden away in my bedroom and really nobody ever saw it. I also am a super light sleeper and the filters often kept me up at night so I was constantly turning them off.

At the same time, I had a 29 gallon with all the nice stuff. It was also in my recording studio which gets quite a bit of visitors. I had a really nice scape at one point but ever since that crashed, I could never get it to look nice. I had a variety of issues with each progression, some I could figure out, some still leave me clueless. My soil went anaerobic and I decided to combine the two. I took the equipment from my 29 and moved in my 20 long.

I had put my filter and CO2 on this tank in my room at the end of my journal but I really didn't have the space for it. Hence the V2.


If you followed my last journal, you know that whatever belem type grass I have is growing really slowly, even under CO2. It has barely quadrupled in size in over 6 months. I did realize a few days ago that my bulbs were probably well over their useful life but I did put some DHG in and that grew more than the entire growth of my belem in about a week if not less. I don't know if it will continue to be an issue. If it is, I now am committed to switching now that the tank is on display. I will give it some time but I will use some HC most likely if it doesn't work out. It's frustrating because the only thing I have yet to have trouble with is carpet plants, even with no CO2.

Moving on...
Specs:
Tank-AGA 20 Long, Top Derimmed
Substrate-Fluorite Black and Fluorite Black Sand mixed together
Lighting-Aquaticlife T5HO 4x24watt, 13 inch over tank for now, final position to be determined.
Filter-Eheim 2215 with 2217 impeller
CO2-20lb CO2 tank, generic beverage regulator, fabco needle valve, JBL style bubble counter, GLA Atomic inline diffusor, Cal Aqua Labs Drop Checker
Ferts-Fountain pump autodosing system using EI method
Heater-Aquaclear 100 watt (likely to be replaced with inline or made into DIY inline)
Other-Have a 9 watt UV that isn't plumbed. I may plumb it in or buy extra quick disconnects so I can plumb it in as needed on this tank and another with same tubing size.

I also will likely get some Lily Pipes. I am thinking going cheap but AFA isn't too far away so I can see what I am getting. My outflow is pretty sketchy right now lol.

Hardscape:
Rocks I bought at a rock yard that I found in a rock pile that I bought and arranged into a smaller rock pile

Fauna:
RCS. I may add fish. I am thinking about adding guppies or rummy nose tetras after shrimp are established. If I go with fish, it's going to be personality/behavior over "curb appeal" most likely. I like guppies for their "goofy" behavior. I have never owned rummy nose tetras but love the way they school. I don't know if they will school well in a tank this size though. Cardinals are a possibility too as they are one of my favorites. I have bought plenty of fish because I liked how they looked only to be bored. I may fall in love with something else though.

Flora:
Some sort of belem that grows hell of slow.
Some sort of red plant that grows low and slow that is common but i don't know the name.

As said, I may go a different route if the grass doesn't start growing. I am not willing to be patient any more. HC is likely but I may keep the belem and even add other plants to the foreground as long as they look attractive when trimmed.


Here are some pics, nothing new to those who followed my last journal, some things shifted around slightly but it doesn't bug me. One thing that is cool is my foam core background was back lit before. I was planning on doing it again but it looks back lit from the raised light but with a cool gradient. It picks up the blue from my 10k bulb in the morning, pinkish red from my rosette bulb at night, and a cool combination of both when they overlap for my noon burst.


This is what I see from my chair height:







This is how it looks standing up:
 
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#2 ·
Beautiful; I look forward to seeing how this tank progresses!
What really intrigues me is the background lighting on the tank. I don't see that done very often.
I like guppies too; I have some now. I don't keep them with my shrimp, since they go after the smaller ones

How do you feel about the structural integrity of the tank without the rim?
 
#3 ·
Beautiful! I look forward to seeing how this tank progresses.
What really intrigues me is the background lighting on the tank. I don't see that done very often.
I like guppies too; I have some now. I don't keep them with my shrimp, since they go after the smaller ones.

How do you feel about the structural integrity of the tank without the rim?
It's actually not back lit which is cool because it saves me some electricity. I was planning on it but the light is so high it just looks like that with the regular light. I will back light it if the effect goes away after lowering the light (assuming I do so). The only thing that kind of sucks is my stand is about 4 inches further out than I would like to accommodate back lighting but if I don't need it, I can't easily move the stand because I had to shim it quite a bit.


I am very confident with the structural integrity of the tank. This one has been derimmed for at least 6 months. I have another 20 long with the top derimmed that has been going for almost 2 years at my girlfriends apartment. Many people have derimmed the entire tank. I have two reasons for not doing so. First, I never took any substrate out of this tank. Second, I was afraid it may end up looking worse with the bottom seems since they are pretty sloppy.


That said, would I do it again, probably not. It's a bunch of work. Getting the actual rim off is not the hard part. It's getting the silicone under it off. On my other 20 long, I did everything as best I could and it took me at least 10-15 hours total. On this, I have only done the front well and that took me 5 hours. I got most of it off the sides and back but it doesn't have a "finished" look to it.

Instead I would buy one that is already rimless. It's quite a bit more, especially if you are comparing it to the Petco $1 per gallon sale but only slightly more than x2 the regular retail of a 20 long. With the amount of work it takes, I would rather just spend the money and have it right than do a bunch of work and still have the sloppy seems on the side, and the bottom if you do the bottom. A member says where he got his here- http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1773976-post8.html
 
#5 ·
The background is foam core poster board. I accidentally picked up some that has adhesive backing which is why their are logos and writting. Normally it would just be white, or whatever color you want. I just didn't feel like going back to the store and will put black paper on when I get a chance. I just moved the tank and before the sides were not very visible so I didn't deal with it. It's super easy to make, you just need a razor blade, a straight edge and some glue. However, if your light isn't super high, you will need to put a light below it (or above it) for it to light up. If I lower my light, I will add a fixture but this light is way overkill for my tank.



As for hanging my light...the way I did it is not how I recommend. I have to work around things people normally would not. I have acoustic panels all over my room and continue to add them as I have time/money. I needed something that didn't take up wall space and the ceiling was out of the question. I used copper pipe. I drilled holes in the end caps and used sheet rock anchors to hold them in. This light is heavy so I had to add some support.

My light has a hanging kit available which would look better than the chain I am using as well but I was under the impression it came with it. I just have not got around to buying it. That would also clean things up.


I would recommend you hang it from the ceiling for the cleanest look. You can also use shelf brackets or brackets for hanging plants if you use the wall. Both will be stronger than what I have and look better. Again, I didn't have that option as I will eventually have a panel right above where the pipe is.


However, here is a picture:
 
#6 ·
Thanks for the information. Your setup looks really nice. I've been trying to find ideas of how to hang my light since my ceilings are made of those little sandy dots that falls off when you touch or hit it I can't do any ceiling mounts.

My tank is on one of those 4 tier aluminum stand and right now I am just using the highest tier for the light. I just put my light above the 4th shelf and my tank on the 3rd shelf.
 
#7 ·
I am no expert but I believe that when you mount something from the ceiling, you usually want to mount it on the top side of the dry wall, meaning the side you can't see. They make "anchors" (not sure if the ones for ceilings are called anchors) for this that disperse the load over a much bigger area than a wall anchor. The issue with this that you need to have a crawl space you can get to so it has to be on the top floor of a place you own, with an unfinished attic. Many of us don't have that. The other option is going into a stud but they are often not in the right places. I have read that wall anchors are not nearly as strong when vertical, like a ceiling, so you shouldn't hang anything heavy when using them. My light is pretty heavy, not that it was an option, again, no expert.


If you plan to use a single, traditional stand, you can go a different route. It's commonly called an "ADA style light bar". This is something that would attach directly to your stand, not a wall or ceiling. You may be able to adapt this to your setup as well. Here is a link to Tom Barr's version- http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/59418-ada-style-light-bar-hqi-cheap.html

I was going to do that but I couldn't afford the pipe bender at the time. Some people have been able to have it bent up for them at the hardware store for free but none around here will do it for me (well, many would if they had a pipe bender handy). Some people will buy the pipe bender, be very careful, use it once, and take it back. For me, it's super hard for me to return tools so I just tried my own way.

Their are many ways, again, my way isn't how I would recommend, it just makes sense given the constraints of a home recording studio and the acoustic panels that come with it. If I did it again, I would go with an ADA style light bar.
 
#9 ·
Thank you sir, means a lot coming from you, your tank has been a huge inspiration for me. It sucks I don't have a tank bigger than 10 gallons with stems now as I always have done stems.



Question...Does Fissidens fontanus attach to everything like Java Moss? I am thinking about making little "bushes" by attaching it to little 1 inch pieces of gravel outside. I don't want it to attach to the substrate though as that bugs me. The only thing that is worse than algae is unwanted moss that attaches to everything and anything.



Also, if you are in the (925) area and want a free 29 gallon, PM me. I put it on craigslist for money but am not getting responses so if someone here gets to me first, it's yours. It has a few scratches and unfortunately one right in front in the middle but it's free. It didn't bother me but if it bothers you, make a farm tank.
 
#11 ·
I am not so concerned about the rate of growth, just if it will attach easily to whatever it wants to. Java moss grows slowly but I hate it because it will attach to anything and everything. In a tank where I don't want it, it's worse than algae. I actually have a bit of Java moss in this tank that was accidentally introduced and I am almost rid of it but I have to scrape the rocks with a razor to make sure it doesn't come back.

I do have more light than would ever be reasonable if I lowered the light down to the rim. 98 watts of T5HO with decent reflectors. I can dose as much as I want. I will likely wait for the foreground to grow in before I try.


That said, although I lost some of my belem (which was growing terribly slow before I switched things up), it's growth has noticeably improved in the last few days. I am guessing it was my light because I did have the same CO2 and filter setup for at least a month or two and it didn't seem to do a whole lot over no co2 and HOB filters. I lowered my light 2 inches which may be too much, I will see on Sunday or Monday when I am home. I don't know why but I like to make lighting changes when I am not going to be home. I guess it gives me enough time to see my mistakes lol.
 
#12 ·
So, not too much of an update. I was inspired by some of the journals on the board where people did some "personalization" to fit the decor of their room. It doesn't show up well in the photos but I covered the sides and top of my background with the same fabric I have on my acoustic panels. It really isn't much but took me about an hour. It looks much better, trust me. I want to do the top on the back piece soon but I don't know how to do it as the panel has warped a bit.

I also decided to put my back light in, or more so mock it up. It isn't mounted, just kind of wedged in. It looks really blue in the picks but it's really more pink as it has a 6500k and a rosette bulb. I would love to go with a two 10,000k bulbs or a 10,000k and antic but I am not really ready to shell out $40 in bulbs for a background. I may have a friend try to airbrush a sky with some light blue and clouds and use the 6500k bulbs I have. I may try to do a gradient myself but I feel like I will mess it up. I don't want to spend money printing a background as of yet.

Lastly, it looks like I have less plants. I was evening out the slope and burried some. Didn't feel like dealing with it. My belem is growing much more quickly under this fixture however. I don't want to say it's going to fill in quickly but it will be much more quickly than my other light in my last journal. I need to trim down the red plants (don't know the name off the top of my head) as well.


Anyway, some back light pics. I don't know why I love back lighting so much but it's really cool looking IMO. I will have it come on a few hours before and after my lights.





 
#14 ·
#19 ·
Any progress on the tank, what you've do this far looks good. I wonder if you can have any fauna in there without driving them crazy with load music, I notice my fish scatter when the front door is slammed 3 rooms away.

It's cool to see all that vinyl, I used to spend my whole paycheck on records when I was in my early 20's, I ended up with a lot of collectible covers at $3.99 each back in 1980 or so, I ended up selling them all to fun a cross country trip.
 
#20 ·
I have been in out of town for almost a week and still going to be back for a few days, hopefully their will be some growth when I get home. Before I left, I split up a lot of the Belem. It tends to grow fast but not spread, hoping this will speed up the process.

As for fauna, I have not had many issues. I had a Pearl Gourami that really didn't like the music (I assume the vibrations) but I notice no difference in behavior with other fish/shrimp. Although I have not had livestock in this tank, I had a 29 setup in the same place for over 4 years. I also don't usually have my music super loud when I am making it or listening. It only gets loud when mixing and some rappers I work with need the music blasting while tracking.

The only update I have is I bought some acrylic lily pipes. They are with me, not on the tank. I will update when I get home.
 
#21 · (Edited)
First, this will be part "a" of today's update. Well, we will see what I get done today. I like to post some of the bad stuff, rather than a perfectly clean tank as that is part of a planted tank. I have had many tanks now that never get algae for the life of them but it's just not always the case, even after you feel like you know what you are doing. This was pretty expected though.


I have way too powerful of a light on my tank. I don't mind because I actually like the light spillage in my studio so I don't have to have bright lights on. However, I lowered my light about 4 inches before I left (suddenly) for 9 days or so.

This is what you get with too much light:


Fortunately, most of the algae is just on the glass. It should be a pretty easy clean up. I did get some BGA which is one of my least favorite types of algae to deal with but luckily it seems to only be on plants which I need to trim anyway.




Obviously, too much light. I raised them back to where they were. Because of my light and all the variables, combined with the lack of plant mass, this was far from a surprise. I don't like starting tanks that I know will get algae but I really don't know how to account for the lighting without a par meter so it's totally expected. It should clean up pretty easily as well. Nothing to be concerned about, just need to find the balance.


On a better note, I picked up these lily pipes. I planned to spend around $75-$150 on lily pipes, possibly more. I really didn't want to order them from overseas if I didn't have to, leaving me with DO!Aqua. I found these acrylic ones down in So Cal for $35 total. I am very happy. They have some imperfections in the "U' bends where you can see where salt or sand was used. But, for the money, can't complain at all. They are super well made in every other sense and I will have much more trouble breaking them. Nothing to special but I am super happy about them:



Lastly, I picked up this tank as well. I am trying to rid my bedroom of tanks. It fits great on top of my mini fridge. I sat on it to see how 200lbs did and the fridge didn't budge. I am debating to put it their or in my room. I hate filter noises in my room but love the look. On the fridge, it kind of makes my room seem too "fish oriented" but I can run CO2 to it. I have everything but a light. I don't know if I will used the driftwood or not, I just bought it because it fit the tank so well. This tank will be mostly stems and a foreground as I miss my stems. I have a few stems left left in a scratch up 10 gallon I am getting rid of but nothing special. I will likely start a new journal for this, I don't have a light at the moment. I may use my 10 gallon hood for now, it will be ugly for sure.



Time for me to get to cleaning lol.
 
#22 ·
Here is it clean. That was about 20 min of work, and 2 hours of the filter cleaning the water up.

I have a bit of BGA on the leaves of the red plant. I will just trim that down to the substrate.

I am not sure what is going on with my grass. It is growing so slowly. The red plants (not sure what they are) and the little piece of rotala I put in have grown a bunch. I wish this would just speed up but I may have to go to a different plant.

I also put my lily pipes on. The outlet is kind of low how I have them setup but I still get good surface agitation and the view from the top is much better.

I know this is probably a boring journal but here you go:
 
#24 ·
I will give that a try. It actually hasn't had any ferts in 2 weeks at all. Hopefully that helps as I am getting sick of whatever type of belem this is.






On a side note, I setup the nano. The wood is backwards (if I use it). I needed to wedge it in as it's floating and I am too lazy to boil it. I may or may not keep it here. I love how it fits perfectly where it is, I love that I can use CO2, but I am a bit afraid of water so close to my records. I also learned that it's much harder to level something solid like a fridge compared to a wood stand with some give. Even harder when tank is filled lol. I may start a new journal or just update it here, depending on the interest.





 
#28 ·
No need for a picture update but the tanks are clean.

On the 20 long:
1. I have decided to go with some HC. This grass just isn't working for me. It just grows super slow. I have put in enough plants to make sure their is no other issues with CO2 or light. Not saying it's 100% right, but other plants have grown fine. I am going to keep it in, I am just going to plant HC as well. It's always worked for me which is one of the reasons I didn't use it at first, I have been their done that.

2. I am thinking about putting in a sand "river" down the middle, slightly to the right. I have never mixed substrates like this before so I want to be sure. Anyone have opinions? I know it's been done and it doesn't look "real" but it would break up the scape a bit. My only hesitation is I can't easily go back if I don't like it. Opinions?

New pics (that look the same):



On the 6 gallon:
I am really just moving stuff around and planting what little I have. This isn't really supposed to be a natural style aquarium. Not that I am against it if it turns out that way, I just want something with stems in it, something with some color. It seems to be doing well so far, no algae, growth isn't crazy but there is some, not really noticeable in the pictures. It will not really look like much until the foreground grows in. The wood looks too big, I will see how that goes over time. The rock is just there for now, I am playing around with what I have. I will see how I arrange things as needed


 
#29 ·
Ok, I know I have been "updating" this a lot but not much is changing. I bought some HC today. I made two mistakes that kind of sucked but didn't really matter. First, I bought Amano shrimp which are cool because for some reason, I have never had them. However, I forgot that I was blasting well above normal rates of CO2 because their were no livestock. I turned the CO2 off and they seem to be doing fine. I acclimate for about 2 hours by drip and realized this in the first 10 min, but they stressed for the first hour, calming down slowly.

The second thing was I was planning to plant the HC without water in the tank. I messed that up by buying the shrimp, not thinking about that until I got in the car. A short dry start would have been nice. I am not a fan of growing out HC dry anymore but I do like to get it rooted nice.

As much as I want to complain, it wasn't very challenging. Not that I started with a ton of HC but planting took me about 45 min. About 1/2 is planted deep enough so it doesn't show up well in pics. I get the random ones floating up every now and then and that will go one for the next few days. 95% seems to be staying down well, leaving the rest floating so I can plant as more pops up.

Not a super interesting change, just wanted to take pictures for my own reference. I am very familiar with HC so I know if this grows too slowly, I have an issue. The grass grew horrifically slow so the HC with be the test for me.

Anyway, snapped this real quick.
 
#30 ·
So, two really dope things happened today in the lab. First, my nano got some amazing plants from member OVT. He has some crazily awesome plants. He is local and showed me his tanks, super crazy stuff. He hooked me up with a great plant package. It looks like a mess right now, well it is a mess, I have very little green and just kind of want to feel out the plants before I scape. Some of the plants I am familiar with and love, most are totally new to me. I am happy, even though the scape is not at all what I want.




Secondly, I ended up on a really good project. If you are interested about what goes on in this room, here is a song I produced (made the instrumental/backing music)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK-ImN6uVbQ
 
#32 ·
I don't know the exact name of the rocks but it had "green" in the title, I believe. I have had many people ask and I just can't find out the info.

I bought about 250lb of this rock total (it was only 8 cents/lb or less, not expensive) and I am guessing this is about 1/4 of that, so around 60lbs. I wouldn't be surprised if it's less, or more, but around that.




________

For anyone wondering about the tanks, I am sorry I have not updated.

The nano is doing really well. The timer failed and it had the lights on for a few days straight but I didn't get too bad of algae because I am injecting a ton of CO2 along with having a AC 50 on a 6 gallon. Some of the reds are really red, others are not as much as I would like. I don't have a ton of light on this tank though.

The 20 long looks about the same. I usually do a short dry start with HC to get it rooted but I have a few amano's in there so I couldn't do it. About half the HC ended up floating, not that it surprised me, but I didn't start with much so it's going to be slow. I could just buy more but its a pain to plant so I am just going to see how it goes.

I also have to keep the light pretty high because of the lack of plant mass so that probably isn't helping the tank. It's on "slow-mo" for now and I don't particularly mind ATM, though I am trimming the HC and replanting as it grows out. Hopefully I will gain enough plant mass to throw some more light at it and get things balanced on a faster route.
 
#33 ·
So...time for an update.

First things first, I almost want to appoligize for cellphone pics but my cell phone is actually better than my camera. I knew it sucked but I didn't think it sucked that bad. I wasn't able to use a tripod however.

The 20 long is still slow. It's weird because everything seems to grow well and I have put hard to grow species in as a test and got good color. I see continued slow growth of the foreground, don't know what's up. A lot of the HC ended up in my filter as well, which obviously doesn't help. I have tried to lower my light but I just don't have the plant mass. I am getting a little BGA but not enough to where it's a problem. I haven't been home so I need to manually remove it soon.

The nano is doing awesome. I cut down the grass about 2 weeks ago, all the way to the substrate as it was a bit ratty when I put it in. It is definitely coming along. My rotala macrandra isn't as red as it should be, when I am dosing daily, it seems to really help. Regardless, I have struggled with this plant in the past. I don't really know how much light this is but I know it isn't high light so I am not expecting much deep reds until I get a light that actually fits the tank. For now, I am happy with everything growing well.


Here are the pics:






 
#36 ·
I know not many are paying attention and this tank has been very slow, through the first iteration until now.

I decided to try something that never works, especially with not a lot of plant mass. That is throwing way too much light at my plants. I lowered my light to about 3-4 in above the tank. I am doing 10 hours of 2x24watt, with a 2x24 watt noon burst.

It has been 3 days and growth has been better already. I can't really tell as much with the HC, though it pearls a lot now, but the grass is throwing runners out now.

I plan to do this for about 3-4 more days and just see how quickly algae comes. The tank is moving so slow that I don't really mind tackling some algae. I do think this tank needs more light than I was throwing at it before, just not sure how much. I do have a tiny bit of a few types of algae so it may be an algae farm quick, lol.

 
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