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SuRje1976 03-26-2007 04:19 AM

My Automatic Fert Doser (No 56K)
 
Ok. I've been asked quite a few times to do this, but never really had the time to write it up. I've been using a dosing system that I set up for about 4 months now. I started using it on my 45G, and then moved it over to the ADA 120P.

The Equipment

It's pretty strightforward. I've got three reservoirs (using two 1000mL separatory funnels, and one 1000mL volumetric flask). I've got a magnetic stirrer to create a "slurry" of Seachem Equilibrium for which the amount I need is not soluble in 1L of water. Three peristaltic pumps deliver the stuff into a "port" on one of the filters' outflow, and into the tank.

So, I'll start with the separatory funnel setup. There are two of them, and this is what they look like:

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...P/CIMG4822.jpg


The funnel is supported on a stand by a ring and a clamp. It's outlet is attached to 3/8" ID Tygon Lab tubing, which is reduced by a series of adapters to 1/8" ID Tygon (same size as standard airline tubing). This connects to the pump.


The setup for the Equilibrium looks like this:

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...P/CIMG4824.jpg


It's a volumetric flask, sitting on a magnetic stirrer. A double bored stopper caps it. Through one of the holes, is 1/8" ID Tygon Lab tubing, the other hole is there to equalize pressure (so the flask does't implode). The tubing connects to a pump.


This is what the whole setup looks like:

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...P/CIMG4826.jpg


It sits in the center of the stand, and the output to each pump connects via 1/4" RO tubing to a check valve which leads (via a series of Y's) into the entry port:

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...P/CIMG4837.jpg

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...P/CIMG4838.jpg

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...P/CIMG4841.jpg


Everything is powered and on an individual X10 timer:

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...P/CIMG4834.jpg



Setting it up to work

Once everything is connected, I need to fill the reservoirs. The micros are pretty simple. The reservoir is basically just filled with a micro solution. I may or may not add iron. To calculate how much KNO3 and KH2PO4 I need (I don't use K2SO4 because I get plenty of K from the Equilibrium), first I need to know how long I want the funnel to last. I'll use 28 days for this example, because I just set it up that way, but once the ADA tank has "stabilized," the macros will be prepared to last 100 days.

Until I can calculate uptake, I'll be dosing EI(ish).

KNO3

1/2 tsp = 2.8g
2.8g x 3(x/week) x 4(weeks) = 33.6g

So, into a spare 1000mL volumetric flask goes 33.6g KNO3



KH2PO4

1/8 tsp = 0.6g
0.6g x 3(x/week) x 4(weeks) = 7.2g

Into the same flask goes 7.2g of KH2PO4


The flask is then filled to the mark (1000mL) with RO/DI water:

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...P/CIMG4829.jpg


And then placed on the magnetic stirrer, and run until dissolved:

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...P/CIMG4830.jpg

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...P/CIMG4833.jpg


Because of solubility issues, Equlibrium is dosed via the flask/stirrer setup, and not more than 30 days worth can be practically prepared at one time. But basically, 45g of Equilibrium is ground in a mortar & pestle and go into the flask, which is then filled with RO/DI water to the mark (1000mL). This goes on the stirrer, which kicks on 2 minutes before the pump begins to draw 30mL of the slurry and feed it into the tank.



Calibration

Now, when I was using this system on the 45G, the pump outputs were feeding directly into the tank, over the top edge. It was easy to calibrate - I just timed how long each pump took to produce 10mL of product into a graduated cylinder, and used that flow rate to set up the timers.

NOW, the pumps are feeding INLINE, and against the back pressure produced by the filter and the weight of the water in the tank above. I could not calculate flow rates the same way I had previously because the output winds up in the flow of water from the filter. This is what I came up with:


http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...P/CIMG4827.jpg

It may be a bit difficult to see it from the picture, but I took a 10mL Class A Mohr Pipette, and attached it to the pumps' input. I was then able to calculate how long it would take for the pumps to PULL 10mL of solution (this 10mL obviously ultimately winds up in the tank).



Dosing


Now, I've got my solutions in place and my pumps calibrated. Both the micro and macro pump deliver at a rate of almost exactly 2mL/min. Micros are easy, the timer that runs them will turn on for exactly 5 minutes (which doses 10mL) three times per week.

Macros are just a bit trickier. I've got (according to our calculations above) 4 weeks worth of product, to be dosed at 3 x/week. So I've got 12 doses in there.

1000mL / 12 doses = 83.33mL/dose
Pump outputs 2mL/min

Pump needs to run for 41 minutes and 40 seconds, 3 x/week (for this month - like I said earlier, this will change).


Side Notes

I do not have my Auto-Water Changer hooked into this tank yet. The drain line is still plumbed into the filter running my 45G. This filter will actually be moved to the ADA tank to serve as a second filter once all of the fish are moved over. The 45 is being torn down completely. Once this happens, I will not be doing the 50% weekly water changes, but the system will run 10% daily. Dosing will change then as well. Micros and Macros will be dosed daily based on uptake and the water changes.

I am NOT currently dosing Equilibrium on the ADA tank. When I start, I'll be concerned about the fact that the slurry is gritty. If this grit causes the check valve to fail, I will need to think of something else, or the tank will back up into the flask, then onto my floor! This was not something I had to worry about on the 45, because like I said, the pump output just dripped into the tank, it wasn't plumbed inline I'm thinking of putting a second check valve on each input line just for redundancy (will need to re-calibrate the pumps).

If I have any issues with the system, I will report them here!

If anyone has any comments/suggestions/questions, I'd love to hear them! :)

intermision 03-26-2007 04:33 AM

Simply amazing. I wish I could affoard to do stuff like this.

Betowess 03-26-2007 05:47 AM

Smile, chuckle, smile... Sergio takes the cake!

tazcrash69 03-26-2007 12:28 PM

LOL, I think Sergio's next project involves a lightning storm, a hunchback assistant, and a 7' tall cadaver.

:wink:

thanks for blazing the trails Sergio.

kzr750r1 03-26-2007 12:31 PM

Sergio, Thanks for this post.

The only item I see worth confirmation is pushing the solutions through one of the check valves, just to be sure. I notice on the calibration photo the other end of the pump is open. Not really how your using it any longer as stated. I would assume a bit more resistance with check valve. Haven't used one of these pumps yet so not able to confirm over here. :)

You have raised the bar beyond the use of ADA products. :proud:

SuRje1976 03-27-2007 03:38 AM

Thanks everyone! The system itself is really nothing new. The inspiration came from threads by some guys on this forum, like Bill Harada and Steve Colley. I originally built the system to be displayed on the wall above the tank, which is why the equipment is so overboard, but a lot of it is absolutley unnecessary overkill!

kzr750r1 - the actual calibration took place with an ouput hose from the pump feeding through the check valve, and directly into the tank - exactly as a normal dosing would take place. The picture is just to show the pipette used. Sorry for the confusion!

boink 04-11-2007 05:01 AM

Hey Sergio,

As per your PM ill post here. Well i guessi should put up some tank specs:
75 Gallon
ADA Aquasoil
4x54 Tek T5 on 9 hrs a day
CO2
EI dosing
2 2215 with 12mm/16 mm id/od

The reason i wanted to plumb it to the intake was i wanted to minimize back pressure from the water. I assumed the pump would not fail and let the reservoir of ferts empty out due to negative pressure. I want to setup the pumps so they plumb into my filters via a reducing tee, 1/8 x 1/2 x 1/2, but it seems they arent being sold. So i will custom make them it seems.

I would like to set up 3 peristaltic pumps: 1 for macro, 1 for micro and 1 for excel. I was going to get teh 3 RPM pump with 3 mm ID tubing. I will be dosing daily, so depending on the molarity of my solution i will adjust the timing accordingly. I want to dose very slowly over a longer period of time to make it more accurate. Not sure on the timers, i wanted to go with a digital one, but i have not researched that yet.

dipan 04-11-2007 03:22 PM

Sergio, are the cone shaped flasks vented? I see glass stopcocks on the top of them. That could be a problem if not vented with a resulting vacuum and decreased dosing over time because of a decrease in input pressure to the peristaltic pump, no? I have done a similar (way less cool looking) setup with simple polyethylene bottles (1000mL) and decided to drill a tiny 1/16" hole in the caps for venting and to allow influx of air as the volume of solution is depleted. I also used some neat barbed dripless quick connects from usplastics. They allow me to disconnect and refill the bottles without a drop spilled. Only a tiny amount of air is introduced into the tubing when reconnecting. That might be a worthy addition, unless you plan to use a separate 1000mL flask for mixup duties, which would also work ...

Way cool setup, though. Love the lab looks. Maybe you could put a glass window on one of the doors of the cabinet, just to show it off? And a blue light in there to fully pimp it out? Hehe ... :biggrin:

TigerLilly 04-11-2007 04:28 PM

I can just see a little man with glasses and a white lab coat running around a laboratory frantically mixing chemicals while muttering to him self hushed whispers of dosing formulas and equations.

boink 04-11-2007 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dipan (Post 402334)
Sergio, are the cone shaped flasks vented? I see glass stopcocks on the top of them. That could be a problem if not vented with a resulting vacuum and decreased dosing over time because of a decrease in input pressure to the peristaltic pump, no? I have done a similar (way less cool looking) setup with simple polyethylene bottles (1000mL) and decided to drill a tiny 1/16" hole in the caps for venting and to allow influx of air as the volume of solution is depleted. I also used some neat barbed dripless quick connects from usplastics. They allow me to disconnect and refill the bottles without a drop spilled. Only a tiny amount of air is introduced into the tubing when reconnecting. That might be a worthy addition, unless you plan to use a separate 1000mL flask for mixup duties, which would also work ...

Way cool setup, though. Love the lab looks. Maybe you could put a glass window on one of the doors of the cabinet, just to show it off? And a blue light in there to fully pimp it out? Hehe ... :biggrin:

do you have a link for the connections you used and what ID tubing you used with the peristaltic?

thanks

boink 04-11-2007 05:47 PM

Also, for those of you with APT pumps, what size tubing and RPM did you choose and why?

dipan 04-12-2007 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boink (Post 402387)
do you have a link for the connections you used and what ID tubing you used with the peristaltic?

thanks

I haven't taken any pics yet as it's been in service for four days. Basically I've got an input manifold like Sergio's with three 1/4" JG tee fittings combined to give me a four to one manifold. Each has a JG 1/4" check valve. This is plumbed to the intake side of the filter apparatus. I'm using two APT Instruments SP100 / DC 12 volt / 10rpm / 3mm / Norprene tubing. linky. Tygon R3603 tubing everywhere. I've used the 1/8" tubing in most places with a short 1/4" section to adapt to the JG fitting via a JG 1/4" to 1/4" barb adapter. 1/8" Tygon from peristaltic to 1/8" to 1/4" adapter to short 1/4" tube to 1/4" JG barb to stem adapter to 1/4" JG check valve.

I decided on DC because it is flow adjustable (use a different voltage transformer) and because it was low voltage. Water hitting it's open case will not cause an electrical hazard. I should probably house it or have gotten the encased version, but that would have been more expensive and real estate under the tank is getting short with all these gizmos. My journal has some pics of the setup, excluding the auto fert system at the time of those photos ... linky

boink 04-12-2007 10:32 PM

i think what i will do is find an ac pump with as close to 1ml/min flowrate with 3mm tubing as i can. That way making dosing solutions and setting up timers is easy to do

tpl*co 04-12-2007 11:34 PM

Ahhh, a fellow chemist in our midst (haven't seen equipment like that since the lab) :).

Yes definitely need some way to release back pressure or else those corks will pop! :).

Wouldn't a burette work better than a pipette? (or have a burrette deliver things?)

Tina

kkentert 04-13-2007 03:20 AM

YOU ARE A CRAZY PERSON!!!!!!
I love it!!!!!
Awesome post...


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