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-   -   Baby Probability Chances with CRS+CBS (http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=222225)

Kinection 01-23-2013 12:39 AM

Baby Probability Chances with CRS+CBS
 
So I finally got my CBS today! When the CRS and
CBS breed, what is the chances of me getting a CBS
and CRS baby? 50/50? Do the CBS "grade" affect
the babies with the SS CRS?
(Side question)
Does anyone keep Rili shrimp (red)+ Fire reds?
I've seen some people get SICK rilis that way, but
do they get wild types? :o

Soothing Shrimp 01-23-2013 12:56 AM

About the rilis and fire reds, no wild type since rili came from pfrs anyway- but you will have to cull cull cull because you'll have to work to get rili up to a good looking pattern again.

sayurasem 01-23-2013 01:01 AM

I think it's 75% chance babies will be CBS. CBS has dominant genes.
And 20% CRS, 5% Brown. Rough guesstimates.

GeToChKn 01-23-2013 01:09 AM

A lot of CBS have red genes in them nowadays, but assume you have a black that is double dominant gene and a red, which is double recessive, the only combo that produces red. Then you will get black but carrying the red gene shrimp. If you black already has the red gene in it, then you will 2 black but red carriers and 2 red.

Those are rough, the thing people forget about genetics and probability and things like that, is that they average out over time. Yes, over time, a coin toss will go 50/50, but maybe the first 100 coin tosses are all heads. If you sample size is 100, it's 100/0, but maybe over 200 or 500 or 60000000000000000 flips, it will be 50/50.

Same with genetics, you may get all black for a few generations, then some reds. The problem with putting CBS into a CRS tank for too long is that because the black gene is dominant, you only need 1 black gene to make a shrimp black, so eventually you may end up with more blacks than red. Again, that is providing the 50/50 thing above, which may happen in 2 generations in your tank, or 90 generations that the blacks take over.

As for the grading, a higher grade shrimp can throw out any lower grades, and sometimes lower grades will good genes (like a S grade that came from an SSS+), that S grade could throw out some SS or maybe even SSS grades.

Generally, they don't jump up or down grades too often, but that is why there is culling, because it does happen. It's the way we got the higher grades. Lower grades popping out higher ones and they were removed and bred and now we all kinds of grades, patterns, etc. Since all crystal shrimp came from what we call C grades in the beginning, any shrimp has the gene's, and therefore, potential to throw out lower grades.

CPDzeke 01-23-2013 01:17 AM

It wouldn't matter much to me. I have never kept CRS, but I think the low grades are much prettier. :)
I just like keeping shrimp (neos)

Kinection 01-23-2013 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeToChKn (Post 2321794)
A lot of CBS have red genes in them nowadays, but assume you have a black that is double dominant gene and a red, which is double recessive, the only combo that produces red. Then you will get black but carrying the red gene shrimp. If you black already has the red gene in it, then you will 2 black but red carriers and 2 red.

Those are rough, the thing people forget about genetics and probability and things like that, is that they average out over time. Yes, over time, a coin toss will go 50/50, but maybe the first 100 coin tosses are all heads. If you sample size is 100, it's 100/0, but maybe over 200 or 500 or 60000000000000000 flips, it will be 50/50.

Same with genetics, you may get all black for a few generations, then some reds. The problem with putting CBS into a CRS tank for too long is that because the black gene is dominant, you only need 1 black gene to make a shrimp black, so eventually you may end up with more blacks than red. Again, that is providing the 50/50 thing above, which may happen in 2 generations in your tank, or 90 generations that the blacks take over.

As for the grading, a higher grade shrimp can throw out any lower grades, and sometimes lower grades will good genes (like a S grade that came from an SSS+), that S grade could throw out some SS or maybe even SSS grades.

Generally, they don't jump up or down grades too often, but that is why there is culling, because it does happen. It's the way we got the higher grades. Lower grades popping out higher ones and they were removed and bred and now we all kinds of grades, patterns, etc. Since all crystal shrimp came from what we call C grades in the beginning, any shrimp has the gene's, and therefore, potential to throw out lower grades.

Oh thanks for clearing that out, but when a CRS+CBS breeds
they might get all CBS, but when the CRS parents die, the offspring
still carry their genes right...? Just confirming it, sounds like a
dumb question though.
And if I add Rilis with fire reds, will the Rilis eventually lose their
pattern? And will the fire reds get ugly patterns too?

GeToChKn 01-23-2013 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AquaticStory (Post 2321946)
Oh thanks for clearing that out, but when a CRS+CBS breeds
they might get all CBS, but when the CRS parents die, the offspring
still carry their genes right...? Just confirming it, sounds like a
dumb question though.
And if I add Rilis with fire reds, will the Rilis eventually lose their
pattern? And will the fire reds get ugly patterns too?

yes, the babies would carry the red gene, so a baby crossed with a baby, would give roughly 1 black, 2 black but red carriers and 1 red. Also, any of the babies breeding back to the original CRS parent would give roughly 3 black but red carriers and 1 red.


As for the rili, pfr thing, not sure. Never dabbled in rili's, so I don't know how their breeding and genetics work nearly as much as I've read and experimented with and breed when it comes to crystals.

mordalphus 01-23-2013 01:31 AM

These days you get roughly 70% crs, 25% cbs and 5% golden.

Most cbs have red genes in them making their offspring have an higher chance for red (since red is recessive)


I wouldn't worry about that yet though, I would just worry about getting your shrimp to breed and foe the babies to survive. You will be lucky to even count the percentages of offsprings ;)

Kinection 01-23-2013 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mordalphus (Post 2322122)
These days you get roughly 70% crs, 25% cbs and 5% golden.

Most cbs have red genes in them making their offspring have an higher chance for red (since red is recessive)


I wouldn't worry about that yet though, I would just worry about getting your shrimp to breed and foe the babies to survive. You will be lucky to even count the percentages of offsprings ;)

I just hope they will breed as much as my fire reds. xD
Maybe... never. Can someone answer my rili question please?
It will give me another excuse to go the LFS again... :icon_smil

mordalphus 01-23-2013 01:42 AM

Rili mixed with pfr is fine, but you will get a mixture of offspring, some pfr, some cherry grade, some rili, some awesome rilis.

Gotta cull them lesser ones out.

Kinection 01-23-2013 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mordalphus (Post 2322290)
Rili mixed with pfr is fine, but you will get a mixture of offspring, some pfr, some cherry grade, some rili, some awesome rilis.

Gotta cull them lesser ones out.

Wait wait wait... cherry grade and "some rili"?
I know rilis were developed by PFRs, but what is
the possibillity of getting cherries again? This goes
back to my horrible culling skills... just love the shrimp
too much. :icon_frow

wicca27 01-23-2013 01:48 AM

rilis can be hard shrimp to keep. to keep a good pattern you have to really cull or it breaks up and get splotch or in my case i ended up with more all blue shrimp than red rili. PFR are just really strong red cherries so are fire reds and super reds and rili came out of those too. ive had a rili give me a pretty clear red cherry so never know what you will get

Kinection 01-23-2013 01:49 AM

That brings me a new question.... (sorry if I'm such a noob)
If I were to mix with fire reds, would you guys mix red rilis
or blue rilis?
Since blue rilis would give me blue velvets instead of cherries?

wicca27 01-23-2013 01:54 AM

my red rili gave me blue rili but they still will give red rili and a combo of the 2 (both colors in one shrimp) blue velvet is a verry culled blue rili so they are darker blue and some will be born with a rili pattern but that will fade as they get older where as mine are either born with it or not it does not fade on mine like it does the velvets..... and to make it worse blue rili can still give you cherries how bout that one lol shrimp are a pain some times

Kinection 01-23-2013 01:56 AM

Man. I guess I'm going to have to toughen
up and put the culls... in my 75 gal! :D
Thanks for all the help guys. :D
It's like I learn new things everyday here...
unlike school. >.>


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