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-   -   What kind of crypt deficiency? (http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=206473)

n00dl3 01-06-2013 02:30 PM

What kind of crypt deficiency?
 
All of the sudden this show up on most of my crypts except for Bullosas. I have not changed my fertilizing dosage for 3 months or so because I have it set to automatic dosing of modified EI.

About two weeks ago, I added 1/2 inch of used aquasoil and osmocote root tabs to each crypts. Other than that, nothing has changed in the tank.

From my research, I read over APC that I have calcium deficiency but I when I did addition researched. I found another article/image that it looks like it is Manganese.

My water is cleveland city water which is hard water.

So what is my deficiency?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...ps323c016d.jpg
Image from APC
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...ps30199774.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...2662A243FB.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...265D583A04.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...2651AC27D8.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...264B9D29FA.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...265760CCDC.jpg

wabisabi 01-07-2013 08:02 AM

How old was the used AS? I'll bet it was adding the AS that is causing a slight melt to your crypts. With your automated dosing seems unlikely to be a nutrient deficiency.

The AS can alter your conditions enough to cause crypts to melt. I've done it on a smaller scale in a 10 gallon tank. Wiped out a nice little grove of C. keei 'jambusan' and C. cordata 'zonata' by adding some new AS to an established tank. It wasn't much AS but enough to change the water conditions to cause the melt.

Strange that the bullosa seem unaffected. I would think they'd be affected too.

n00dl3 01-07-2013 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wabisabi (Post 2174153)
How old was the used AS? I'll bet it was adding the AS that is causing a slight melt to your crypts. With your automated dosing seems unlikely to be a nutrient deficiency.

The AS can alter your conditions enough to cause crypts to melt. I've done it on a smaller scale in a 10 gallon tank. Wiped out a nice little grove of C. keei 'jambusan' and C. cordata 'zonata' by adding some new AS to an established tank. It wasn't much AS but enough to change the water conditions to cause the melt.

Strange that the bullosa seem unaffected. I would think they'd be affected too.

AS is about 6 months ago.

Hmmm... interesting observation... The following crypts were unaffected: Keei, Cordata 'Rosanervig', Hudoroi, and Bullosa.

But the follow were affected: Cordata KR01, Affinis, Kota Tingii, Mimina 'Gasser', Purpurea, Aponogetifolia.

Also I have Alternanthera sp 'variegated', downoi, and java ferns were unaffected.

Do you think a big water change will help or just wait it out? I think I better just wait it out.

roadmaster 01-07-2013 01:50 PM

Is possible to have hard water but water may be lacking calcium, or maybe has calcium, and lacking magnesium.Water hardness test's don't tell you which may be lacking.(local water report might)
I have plenty of calcium, and little to no magnesium in my water and so I decided to try adding a little Epsom salt (magnesium) when i dose other nutrient's and plant's that were doing poorly,improved.
Seachem's Equilibrium might also produce result's.

DogFish 01-07-2013 02:02 PM

I tend to agree with the Gentleman from Hawaii.

I fall back on, "When in doubt, I flush it out". Water Changes are our friend. Better lighter concentrations of nutrients for weaken plants than an overload, until they stabilize.

Part of the problem with crypt collectoris is that not all in your collection have the same requirements. While they all might do O.K. in the mid range, I think your seeing that when you find the range that some thrive in i.e. your Borneo crypts the others Sir Lankan, Phillipino etc start to fail.

Collectoris is a cruel master :hihi:

roadmaster 01-07-2013 02:18 PM

If you lighten up on nutrient's and plant's are already struggling due to deficiencies,,then they will continue to do poorly in my expieriences.
Better in my view,to see that they have a little bit of everything, than trying to cut back and hope for good result's.

n00dl3 01-07-2013 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadmaster (Post 2174721)
Is possible to have hard water but water may be lacking calcium, or maybe has calcium, and lacking magnesium.Water hardness test's don't tell you which may be lacking.(local water report might)
I have plenty of calcium, and little to no magnesium in my water and so I decided to try adding a little Epsom salt (magnesium) when i dose other nutrient's and plant's that were doing poorly,improved.
Seachem's Equilibrium might also produce result's.

At first that was my line of thinking. But what got me confused is that I have been using the city water for the past 4 years on this tank. All of the crypts and plants were all thriving until this happen. Also only some of the crypts were affected. Usually I would see all or none or like one area of the tank. The affected crypts are all over the tank... not in a particular area.

Like wabisabi said, I really think AS has something to do with it.

I have dosed some calicium and GH booster last night. I will continue to monitor the crypts to see what happen next.

n00dl3 01-07-2013 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DogFish (Post 2174809)
I tend to agree with the Gentleman from Hawaii.

I fall back on, "When in doubt, I flush it out". Water Changes are our friend. Better lighter concentrations of nutrients for weaken plants than an overload, until they stabilize.

Part of the problem with crypt collectoris is that not all in your collection have the same requirements. While they all might do O.K. in the mid range, I think your seeing that when you find the range that some thrive in i.e. your Borneo crypts the others Sir Lankan, Phillipino etc start to fail.

Collectoris is a cruel master :hihi:

Very true... but I have been extremely lucky. I hate having collectoris syndrome. I might do 25% water change tonight to reset the tank.


Quote:

Originally Posted by roadmaster (Post 2174889)
If you lighten up on nutrient's and plant's are already struggling due to deficiencies,,then they will continue to do poorly in my expieriences.
Better in my view,to see that they have a little bit of everything, than trying to cut back and hope for good result's.

very true

DogFish 01-07-2013 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadmaster (Post 2174889)
If you lighten up on nutrient's and plant's are already struggling due to deficiencies,,then they will continue to do poorly in my expieriences.
....

Consider if they are already ODing on nutrients due individual preference/needs more is not better. Which in this tank is more likely the case vs. being deficient.

For example C. grabowski, found in peat bogs in Borneo, while others such as C. pontiderifolia are found in streams with limestone beds - hard alkaline water. One species, C. ciliata is even found in semi brackish water in some areas. Put those three in the same tank push the parameters in favor of any one individual too much, the other two will suffer to some extent.

Survive and thrive are not the same thing.

Option 01-07-2013 05:10 PM

Noodle, sorry I don't have much input.... but I just wanted to add that I thought the images of the various deficiencies were quite informative. :proud:

roadmaster 01-07-2013 05:22 PM

Don't know how much is too much,what is being dosed at what level's.
Would do as OP is doing, and maybe weekly 50 % water change.
Just my two cent's.
Have personally never seen plant's improve by limiting fertz .
Would rather add more plant's,perhap's some fast grower's temporarily.
I wonder if temperatures of some plant's,as opposed to other's might also be something to consider?

DogFish 01-07-2013 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadmaster (Post 2175865)
....
Would do as OP is doing, and maybe weekly 50 % water change.
Just my two cent's.
Have personally never seen plant's improve by limiting fertz .
....

Really not trying to give you a hard time. If you do a 50% WC then you are limiting frets as you have just delete the mix by 50%

I was suggesting getting the right balance of frets not eliminating them completely.

roadmaster 01-07-2013 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DogFish (Post 2175898)
Really not trying to give you a hard time. If you do a 50% WC then you are limiting frets as you have just delete the mix by 50%

I was suggesting getting the right balance of frets not eliminating them completely.

I understand your meaning,point.
If it is Overdosing of ?? as you suggest it might be,and considering nothing has changed in dosing regime according to OP other than osmocote and old, possibly Exhausted? Aquasoil,then weekly water change should compensate for the proposed overdosing of ??
Adding some more plant's would also help in this regard no?
Personally have found that ensuring a little bit of everything,, is far easier than trying to identify what may be lacking, and weekly water change may well take care of any excess that slow growing crypt's are not using.
Cannot say I would be diluting available nutrient's by half with 50% weekly water change, without knowing what rate plant's are using that which I or OP ar dosing.Plant's ARE no doubt consuming some,most? before water change time.

DogFish 01-07-2013 06:28 PM

You are correct, if no changes other than additional plants are added an overdosed condition would be reduces as the new plants absorb the excess.

IF it is in overdose 50% w/c will cut the values in 1/2 at the time of the water changes that is basic chemistry. If the substrate is leaching that is another topic as the parameter will change until the next w/c.

Also unless top-offs are with distilled water parameters will changes based on the tap water's concentration of nutrients.

looking4roselines 01-07-2013 07:35 PM

All your crypt photos (with the exception of the last) appear to be physical damage from your shrimps. I've seen this when while my cherries snack on my crypt leaves. They seem to have developed a taste for all other crypts except for c bullosa. Maybe the leaves are not as tender as other leaves.


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