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-   -   Malaysian Murder Mystery! (http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=206409)

l8nite 01-06-2013 07:47 AM

Malaysian Murder Mystery!
 
The Story
The flora and fauna in my 29G tank were happy and thriving. A healthy population of hundreds (or more!) of Malaysian Trumpet Snails were established. A Christmas miracle delivered a new 110G tank to my door, and so the community prepared for their move to larger pastures. I took all the necessary precautions (or so I thought!) - ran the new filters on the old tank for weeks, moved everything in a single day, etc. to minimize the shock of the move. However, disaster has struck!

In the two weeks since the move, all the Malaysian trumpet snails have mysteriously died! Their white shells lay barren, dotting the onyx desert of the tank like stars in a nighttime sky. Their brethren, a few ramshorns, a striped nerite, the occasional pond snail, and a huge apple snail are survivors of the apocalypse, but will they last? I've come to you, fellow forum members, for guidance in this matter.


https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24247931/Aq...5/IMG_1632.JPG
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24247931/Aq...5/IMG_1633.JPG


The Suspects
The suspects list are the things that have changed as part of the move into the new tank...

The water parameters (temperature, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) are all nominal. I have been checking them regularly.

I added new fish shortly after it was set up, so they are my primary suspects. Is someone eating the snails?

Koi Angelfish (2)
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24247931/Aq...5/IMG_1634.JPG

Golden Gourami (1)
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24247931/Aq...5/IMG_1638.JPG

Black Skirt Tetra (school of 7)
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24247931/Aq...5/IMG_1641.JPG

Red Tailed Shark (1)
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24247931/Aq...5/IMG_1652.JPG

Apple Snail (1)
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24247931/Aq...0/IMG_1588.JPG

New Substrate
3-5" deep - CaribSea Super Naturals Tahitian Moon. 80lbs mixed w/ 5lbs of AMACO Mexican Red Pottery Clay, bordered/capped. Also contains rootmedic tablets sporadically placed within.
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...Mg7Z8MUJ-RrBdQ

l8nite 01-06-2013 07:50 AM

Also, I was overfeeding the tank (incl. dropping algae wafers) because of the new substrate and wanting to give the snail population a fighting chance, so I can't imagine any of my fish being particularly hungry.

It seems very strange that _all_ of the MTS would die but nothing else in the tank would appear unhealthy or affected.

MABJ 01-06-2013 08:19 AM

I would hazard to bet all didn't die.. The change most likely threw them off. See MTS love mulm. That's why they're always under the substrate. I'd bet a few survived and the population will revive.

With the new substrate, most didn't have their normal food to snack on between feelings.

Hope this helped man. Grats on the 110G tank :) you know we want a journal and pictures of it right?!

Hehe hope you're well,
Mark

keithy 01-06-2013 12:51 PM

if you figure this out, let me know coz I have been trying to figure this out in my tank for more than a year now.

steven p 01-06-2013 01:10 PM

Did an assassin sneak in? The floor of my 72 is littered with mts shells.

ravensgate 01-06-2013 02:05 PM

All I could think too was possible assassin snails. I redid a tank 3-4 weeks ago with new substrate and the whole shebang and they are still doing ok in my tank even though there was no mulm in there, though it's completely feasible they starved out if the other snails or fish were out competing them on the algae wafers.

As a side note, absolutely hysterical and well written post:)

Fishumms 01-06-2013 02:39 PM

I have found that a lot of the older MTS in my tanks will die when I move them/ redo everything. But usually, they bounce back as they don't all die. If there are other snails in the tank at all, they will outcompete the MTS because ramhorns and pond snails reproduce by laying egg sacks and MTS lay one egg at a time. Although they are all prolific breeders, the other snails are much more so. Also, I've found that Apple Snails are excellent scavengers, akin in their constant search for food to Goldfish. If there is food in the tank they will eat it until it is gone. The larger MTS were probably starved out, but eventually their food sources will come back and also the population. I had a similar problem in a 2.5 tank where I tried to seed it with MTS from my 30 gallon. I guess I missed some hiding ram horns because their population exploded which was what I was trying to avoid. I had hoped that by only adding MTS it would at least keep the population to something I like. It has worked somewhat before. It is 5 months since I started that tank and there is finally signs of tons of little MTS showing up. I think you experienced a similar situation.

l8nite 01-06-2013 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MABJ (Post 2166857)
I would hazard to bet all didn't die.. The change most likely threw them off. See MTS love mulm. That's why they're always under the substrate. I'd bet a few survived and the population will revive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishumms (Post 2167489)
I have found that a lot of the older MTS in my tanks will die when I move them/ redo everything. ... The larger MTS were probably starved out, but eventually their food sources will come back and also the population. ... It is 5 months since I started that tank and there is finally signs of tons of little MTS showing up.

Thanks, this sounds like the general consensus! I'm looking forward to seeing them bounce back :-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MABJ (Post 2166857)
Hope this helped man. Grats on the 110G tank :) you know we want a journal and pictures of it right?!

Tank journal is in my sig!

Quote:

Originally Posted by steven p (Post 2167329)
Did an assassin sneak in? The floor of my 72 is littered with mts shells.

I don't think so - we watch the tank pretty regularly, and I even went last night and flashlight-hunted for a little while to see if I could detect anything "fishy" going on (*rimshot*). Thanks for the suggestion though!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravensgate (Post 2167385)
As a side note, absolutely hysterical and well written post:)

Haha, thanks ;)

MABJ 01-06-2013 10:05 PM

I'll have to get on the computer. Tapatalk users can't see signatures.

l8nite 01-06-2013 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MABJ (Post 2170481)
I'll have to get on the computer. Tapatalk users can't see signatures.

HANdS 110G High Tech Community

l8nite 01-07-2013 04:31 AM

Good news! After being worried all week and finally posting this thread, turns out that today after a 50% water change I saw some movement in a couple of snails! Two of the largest ones were climbing the glass, and a couple of smaller ones I saw digging around in the substrate, so all is not lost :D

ghost shrimp 01-07-2013 01:01 PM

Glad to hear it! now those will get to work and make you several hundreds more! also In my experince the Red tailed shark could be lower the population as they do act like a loach when it comes to snails, Ask my clown :p

l8nite 01-16-2013 07:17 AM

So, another week in and no signs of life from any of the snails, even the few big ones that I saw climbing around earlier... going to give them another week, and then I'm going to start picking the shells out and finding a source for new ones.

l8nite 01-25-2013 08:18 AM

Gave up on them today - picked out all of the shells and put them in a shallow tupperware with some cold tap water...

Lo and behold, the two or three really big ones (like 1" long) started moving. They moved into my 10G Molly Fry Containment Unit for the moment, where they seem happy.

So now I'm wondering, why don't these snails like my 110 tank? Nitrates are high-ish because of EI dosing, could that be it?

dtang21 01-25-2013 09:31 AM

Re: Malaysian Murder Mystery!
 
When I had these snails, they never came out when the lights were on. Afraid of the fish I guess... When the lights went out, it was like zombieland but with malaysian trumpet snails.


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