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-   -   Opening Dose of Excel not looking too good (http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=199214)

ANTIplastic 12-03-2012 03:01 PM

Opening Dose of Excel not looking too good
 
Tank question

Made my first seachem excel purchase and I did as the bottle requested. Start with a water change then dose accordingly. I did so and in less than 24 hours I have a very cloudy tank and almost all of my fish are hanging around on top of the tank.

I've read that excel can mess with oxygen which would result in my fish hanging up top. But what's with the cloud? I'll always have a mild cloud a day after a normal water change, but I've never seen it this heavy.

somewhatshocked 12-03-2012 03:09 PM

What's the volume of your tank and how much Excel did you dose?

If I remember correctly, you live in my area and we have nightmarishly unpredictable water. There's been an algal bloom in the Ohio River in our area the past couple days that's been causing some problems, as well. So it could definitely be a water issue.

Have you tested parameters?

Seattle_Aquarist 12-03-2012 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANTIplastic (Post 2097676)
Tank question

Made my first seachem excel purchase and I did as the bottle requested. Start with a water change then dose accordingly. I did so and in less than 24 hours I have a very cloudy tank and almost all of my fish are hanging around on top of the tank.

I've read that excel can mess with oxygen which would result in my fish hanging up top. But what's with the cloud? I'll always have a mild cloud a day after a normal water change, but I've never seen it this heavy.

Hi ANTIplastic,

Assuming you dosed per the instructions it sounds like you may have had a substantial amount of algae in the tank. Excel, along with providing carbon molecules, has algacide properties. It is likely that a lot of algae is dying off and decomposing making the water cloudy and using up oxygen. Increase your filtration, add an airstone to increase circulation, and watch your fish. With good filtration the water should clear in a day or two. The good news, you have probably killed off a lot of algae.

Diana 12-03-2012 04:02 PM

If that is so, you have killed a lot of algae, I would do a big water change.
That much matter dying all at once can add too much nitrogen to the tank, the ammonia and nitrite removing bacteria cannot keep up.

Fish piping: I would do a water change.

If the posts above are right, and your tap water comes pre-loaded with algae, I would not dose the high initial dose of Excel. Just do the regular dosing.

ANTIplastic 12-03-2012 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somewhatshocked (Post 2097684)
What's the volume of your tank and how much Excel did you dose?

If I remember correctly, you live in my area and we have nightmarishly unpredictable water. There's been an algal bloom in the Ohio River in our area the past couple days that's been causing some problems, as well. So it could definitely be a water issue.

Have you tested parameters?

Haven't done a parameters check yet. I literally did this post on my phone while waiting in a doctors office. I'll see whats up.

ANTIplastic 12-03-2012 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seattle_Aquarist (Post 2097717)
Hi ANTIplastic,

Assuming you dosed per the instructions it sounds like you may have had a substantial amount of algae in the tank. Excel, along with providing carbon molecules, has algacide properties. It is likely that a lot of algae is dying off and decomposing making the water cloudy and using up oxygen. Increase your filtration, add an airstone to increase circulation, and watch your fish. With good filtration the water should clear in a day or two. The good news, you have probably killed off a lot of algae.

I have a penguin powerhead 300 that I don't use. Would that help. I'm currently running two HOB fluval 30's.

ANTIplastic 12-03-2012 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diana (Post 2097745)
If that is so, you have killed a lot of algae, I would do a big water change.
That much matter dying all at once can add too much nitrogen to the tank, the ammonia and nitrite removing bacteria cannot keep up.

Fish piping: I would do a water change.

If the posts above are right, and your tap water comes pre-loaded with algae, I would not dose the high initial dose of Excel. Just do the regular dosing.

Water change? How big of a water change?

Seattle_Aquarist 12-03-2012 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANTIplastic (Post 2098275)
I have a penguin powerhead 300 that I don't use. Would that help. I'm currently running two HOB fluval 30's.

Hi ANTIplastic,

Yes, I would add the powerhead until the water clears. A 25% water change would be a good start.

kevmo911 12-04-2012 12:03 AM

I've had some issues with the "initial dose", and I'm not alone. I'd stick with the regular daily dose of (I think) 1mL/10g. I've used twice that dose daily for a week for algal combat, but more than that tends to make my plants unhappy. No noticeable fish protests, though.

ANTIplastic 12-04-2012 01:48 AM

Alrighty. I did a 25% water change and its looking clearer. The fish are now swimming in their normal routines and they have left hanging out on the top searching for air.

When I did the water change I did a dose of prime and turned on my powerhead. To be honest-not a fan of the power head. It stirs the water up way too much but if it's recommened to help with the water I'll do it. Question is, how long should I do it? Also, when can I dose with Flourish and Prime again?

Kathyy 12-04-2012 02:56 AM

Glad the fish are feeling better. If you are going to be watching the tank go ahead and take the powerhead out, you can turn it back on if you see the fish going to the surface again.

Prime is only dosed with new water that has chlorine or chloramine in it. It can affect oxygen level too and tap water itself can be low in oxygen. I always aerate replacement water at water change time now after a couple times the fish were uncomfortable after water changes.

Dose the Flourish as directed. It helps the plants grow and doesn't change how algae grows, algae can always find nutrients.

STS_1OO 12-04-2012 03:35 AM

I know people who use Prime to cut down on ammonia spikes (fish that may have died and they didn't catch and so forth). Of course, its only a short term solution.

Also remember that Excel requires the light on after dosing.

Using Prime, adding an airstone/powerhead to introduce O2 through agitation and water changes are good temporary measures. That should knock out the cloud.

I haven't used Excel too much but is there a reason for the first dose being heavy?

ANTIplastic 12-04-2012 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STS_1OO (Post 2098609)
I know people who use Prime to cut down on ammonia spikes (fish that may have died and they didn't catch and so forth). Of course, its only a short term solution.

Also remember that Excel requires the light on after dosing.

Using Prime, adding an airstone/powerhead to introduce O2 through agitation and water changes are good temporary measures. That should knock out the cloud.

I haven't used Excel too much but is there a reason for the first dose being heavy?


Not to sound like such a sheep-but no. It doesn't say why there should be such a heavy opening dose. Nothing that caught my attention anyways.

Seattle_Aquarist 12-04-2012 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANTIplastic (Post 2099256)
Not to sound like such a sheep-but no. It doesn't say why there should be such a heavy opening dose. Nothing that caught my attention anyways.

Hi ANTIplastic,

The reason for the high dosage after a water change per Seachem is:

Quote:

Thank you for your question, -------. Because carbon can be removed from the water upon performing a major water change, we recommend increasing the amount of Flourish Excel dosed on water change days, simply to re-constitute the water with carbon for your plants to utilize as needed. We hope this information helps, and thank you for using Excel!

ANTIplastic 12-05-2012 01:33 AM

An Update
 
1 Attachment(s)
Okay. So I've lost one fish and the tank isn't getting better. It's not getting worse, but it's not getting better. I'm running the powerhead at the moment and I've done a 25 percent water change. Upon the initial water change the fish seemed happier and the tank got clearer. Now it's back to where it began.


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