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-   -   Cloudy Water after API AlgaeFix dosing (http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=194282)

zergling 10-17-2012 06:43 PM

Cloudy Water after API AlgaeFix dosing
 
Short version - For folks that have used AlgaeFix successfully, did any of you experience cloudy water after dosing? I'm trying to find out if this is normal, or is an issue in my tank that I need to address?

Long version
Last night, I dosed API AlgaeFix on my ADA 120-P to address a recent green hair algae (spirogyra) bloom. When I checked my tank this morning, I noticed that the tank water is suddenly cloudy. Sadly, this looks a lot like what happened to me a while back when I accidentally killed off the beneficial bacteria in my filter and caused a new cycle.

Details:

ADA 120-P (65-ish gallons)
Rena Filstar XP4
Hydor Inline heater 300W
Hydor Koralia Nano 240gph

ATI Powermodule (only running 2x54W, around 65 umol at the substrate)
ADA Aqua Soil Amazonia (the "new" one?)
Pressurized CO2 on timer. Starts 2.5 hours before lights on. Diffused using ADA glass diffuser right under the Koralia Nano.
EI dosing ("tweaked")

25 Nannostomus Mortenthaleri
3 Nannostomus Beckfordii
6 Pseudomugil Tennelus
6 Pseudomugil Gertrudae

It's an iwagumi-style scape, so plant mass is not very high. Just dwarf hairgrass, HC, and e. hydropiper.

I've had the tank since 2007, but I did recently move to my new place earlier this March. The tank basically has been cycled for at least six months now.

As you can probably tell, I'm not new to planted tanks. I've had green hair algae blooms multiple times in the past -- the culprit is almost always CO2 deficiency, but I've also experienced it with sudden ammonia spikes, and/or potassium deficiency. The solution for me for this particular algae has always been clean up, water change, increase CO2 and/or dosing, and possibly add an army of amano shrimp. This time around, I'm 99.99% sure I triggered the algae when I adjusted CO2 down (fish gasping at the surface at the end of the 8-hour photoperiod), but a little too low. While I already know how to address the underlying issue, I also want all traces of this algae gone quickly as I'm having guests over this weekend.

What I did last night:
- Took out all green hair algae that I could using a toothbrush.
- Wiped the glass
- 50% water change with tap water and seachem prime.
- Filter maintenance - changed filter floss, took out the bag of purigen, cleaned the propeller. I did not touch the foams and the other 2 baskets of filter stuff, aside from taking it out temporarily to discard the dirty water in the filter.
- Dosed 1 tsp GH Booster, 3/4 tsp potassium nitrate, 1/4 tsp potassium phosphate
- Dosed 1.25 tsp API Algae Fix.

The fish were still asleep when I checked earlier, so I don't know if their behavior has changed. I do know pseudomugils are quite sensitive to ammonia in the water, so I guess I'll easily find out when I get back from work if I did manage to kill my beneficial bacteria..

slavecorps 10-17-2012 07:07 PM

Algae die off probably caused a mini cycle.

zergling 10-17-2012 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slavecorps (Post 2046820)
Algae die off probably caused a mini cycle.

Is it JUST algae die off, though? Or has my beneficial bacteria been harmed too? I guess I'll find out later when I test for ammonia and nitrites.

For a 65g tank to get cloudy overnight, I think it takes more than just a "mini" cycle.

JoraaŃ 10-17-2012 09:02 PM

That happen in my tank as well few years back...nothing to worry about.

zergling 10-17-2012 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joraan (Post 2046966)
That happen in my tank as well few years back...nothing to worry about.

Thanks Joraan for chiming in! How was API AlgaeFix when you used it?

plantbrain 10-18-2012 06:25 AM

It clouds for a few hours, then clears up. Typical for everyone pretty much.

It does not target bacteria, it targets inverts, algae and if high enough, plants and fish. If you follow directions + do a large water change, remove as much before hand, then dose it for the 3 days, it will kill many of the microinverts you cannot see without a microscope etc. There are quite a few of them.

When Algaefix (Busan 77 pesticide) is added to water with soil particles, I suspect it binds and you get the white floc you see. Busan will bind very aggressively to soil particles. It's not available to kill algae at that point and slowly is broken down. It does re release back into the water until then(thus non toxic).

I've seen the white floc in soft and hard KH's.

Add the 7 mls of Algaefix for 3 days. Do a water change if you did not prior.
After 3-4 th day, do another, algae should be 100% dead on the 4th day.
Add shrimp back.

Watch CO2.

That's pretty much it.

Same issue for the same reason happened on my 70 Gal as well.

It will kill shrimp, they act drunk after 1-2 days and then die off in larger no#'s 2-3 days after the 1st treatment. Fire shrimp died off at about 70-80% mortality through the entire treatment. Amano's are less susceptible but will still die.

zergling 11-26-2012 06:31 PM

Thanks Tom and Joraan. As mentioned, cloudy water went away after a few hours. By the time I got home from work, the tank water was 90% clear. All the cloudiness was pretty much gone about 2 days after treatment. The green hair algae took about a week to be completely gone. Zero problems with my fish.

plantbrain 11-27-2012 04:35 AM

Yes, pretty much everyone reports the same result.

But fix the root issue, your plant might grow well, but they could grow better.

zergling 11-27-2012 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plantbrain (Post 2090597)
Yes, pretty much everyone reports the same result.

But fix the root issue, your plant might grow well, but they could grow better.

Like 99% of algae issues I've experienced in the past - lack of CO2 was the root cause. I remember adjusting down my CO2 as my fish were gasping at the end of the photoperiod, turned out I adjust the CO2 was too low :redface:

Steelwolve 11-28-2012 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plantbrain (Post 2047615)

Add the 7 mls of Algaefix for 3 days. Do a water change if you did not prior.
After 3-4 th day, do another, algae should be 100% dead on the 4th day.
Add shrimp back.

Watch CO2.

That's pretty much it.

Same issue for the same reason happened on my 70 Gal as well.

It will kill shrimp, they act drunk after 1-2 days and then die off in larger no#'s 2-3 days after the 1st treatment. Fire shrimp died off at about 70-80% mortality through the entire treatment. Amano's are less susceptible but will still die.

So you add it for 3 days straight?? The bottle I have says "Every 3 days"
Just checking Im using it on a 29G to try to get rid of Green water, just dosed last night a 9:30pm. I was gonna wait 3 days before redosing, but Im confused now. Should I do it again tonight and follow Toms way or was that a typo maybe?

jester56 12-01-2012 01:42 AM

That's what it says on my bottle and that's how I dosed it. Same results as above. Although it seems to take out a pest in one tank and ignore the same pest in another, I've had really good results. Sometimes it hits BBA... or not. But it seems to be a good product for the price...

plantbrain 12-01-2012 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steelwolve (Post 2092229)
So you add it for 3 days straight?? The bottle I have says "Every 3 days"
Just checking Im using it on a 29G to try to get rid of Green water, just dosed last night a 9:30pm. I was gonna wait 3 days before redosing, but Im confused now. Should I do it again tonight and follow Toms way or was that a typo maybe?

You can do it this way, but it is all gone in a few hours since it binds to organic matter really well.

If you hit it 3x in a row, it should be more effective and just as safe for livestock. Shrimp may tolerant it better if you do every 3 days. But no one should be treating this stuff with a CRS tank anyhow........Fires, cherrys, Amano's, seem not to like it, but survive and are fine afterwards.

If you catch the algae early on, then one single treatment is all that is required. No need to repeat.

For folks using this stuff: focus on your CO2, reduce your lighting , one of those two or both. You will keep having issues till you do.

Steelwolve 12-02-2012 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plantbrain (Post 2095666)
You can do it this way, but it is all gone in a few hours since it binds to organic matter really well.

If you hit it 3x in a row, it should be more effective and just as safe for livestock. Shrimp may tolerant it better if you do every 3 days. But no one should be treating this stuff with a CRS tank anyhow........Fires, cherrys, Amano's, seem not to like it, but survive and are fine afterwards.

If you catch the algae early on, then one single treatment is all that is required. No need to repeat.

For folks using this stuff: focus on your CO2, reduce your lighting , one of those two or both. You will keep having issues till you do.

Thanks for the reply, I have had the worst time with my new 1st attempt at high tech, I battled through Diatoms with the addition of Oto cats and got the hair algae to finally stay away and now Ive been hit with this green water all other attempts to correct have failed so since I cant get a UV steralizer right now im giving the Algafix a try,
so far: Switched to 8 hr photo period, and took co2 to 4bps and on 24/7.
day 1 of treatment: Dosed 2.9ml into 29g tank,
day 3 dosed 2.9ml, still very cloudy though not as green,
day 4: is now and I just dosed another 2.9ml, still looks real cloudy Im gonna do an 80% water change tomorrow, and hope the cloudyness clears up.
Its been green for a month now but suprisingly my plants are doing good from what I can see.

Also if the cloudiness remains will that be a sign that I have a bacteria bloom also? Since the green is fading but its still so cloudy?
Sorry to hijack the thread.


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