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-   -   Ultilmate fertilizer for faster plant growth (http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=179668)

happi 06-12-2012 01:11 PM

Ultilmate fertilizer for faster plant growth
 
i been working on this fertilizer for while now and it seems to work very well, ingredients are very similar to most fertilizers, but this fertilizers use combination of many different sources of chemicals to make it even work better. for example: you are not adding nitrate through KNO3 only, but in this ferts you are adding it through urea, Ca nitrate, Mg nitrate etc. stems plants responded to this very well and you will notice the difference when you dose this fert. according the plant response and those who tested it, this fert had faster growth than the EI dosing.

Original formula tested with results

1000ml solution
Urea (7 gram)
calcium nitrate (10 gram)
Magnesium nitrate (10 gram)
CSM+B (20 gram)
DTPA 11% (5 gram)
K2SO4 (30 Gram) (do not add this to solution due to solubility issue, dose separate as mentioned)
Ascorbic Acid (1g)
Potassium Sorbate (0.5g)
MnSO4 (1 gram) Optional, last time i added it to the solution, it seems to cause no issue, Mn is very important along with Fe.

Dosing: 20ml everyday for 50g high tech tank, reduce the dosage if you have low tech tank. at the water changes you should add 20ppm of K+ through K2SO4, you can also use GH booster to achieve the same, i highly recommend using GH booster. you notice that i did not say anything about the Phosphate dosing, that is because i did not want to mix it with this solution, you can make separate solution or dose EI style dry, you should dose 1ppm of PO4 3x week. The best time to dose this ferts is when the lights are already on for the first hour or so. people with higher Ph 7> should be careful when dosing this ferts, as you can see that it contain urea which could cause problem for those with higher PH.


Water Changes: I changed 50% water every 2 weeks while dosing this ferts with no problem, but you can still do you 50% water change weekly if you like that routine. i also use 100% RO water in my tank, i do not use any KH buffering.
my water parameter:
100% RO Water
KH 0
Gh 2-3
PH 6<
water temp 78F



MOST IMPORTANT NOTE:
Make sure your co2 levels are good, if you forget to dose Phosphate and K+ then you might see no difference in plant growth and it will be complete fail. if you decide to use K2SO4 instead of Gh booster, i recommend that you add Ca (about 20-30ppm) and Mg (6-8ppm) through Mg/Ca sulfates.

storing the solution: i recommend that you keep it cool and keep it in the dark (fridge is highly recommended).



Reason for K2so4 to react when used in the solution:

the reaction we were seeing in the solution was caused by K2so4 and CaNo3, when you mix these together they form KNO3 and leave behind all the sulphate from K2SO4 siting on the bottom of the solution. so you get no Ca at all in the solution, you do get more K+ without adding more KNO3, all the SO4 is removed which you don't want too much of it anyway.

as you can see in the video plants were growing at 3ppm of Ca from 1tsp GH booster once a week or during water changes, after all we don't need that much Ca.

will5 06-12-2012 01:47 PM

I wonder how many people are going to be will to try this because it has Urea in it?

sketch804 06-12-2012 02:11 PM

sounds nice! ya IDK even where to get urea, but the rest looks good, might have to try this sometime soon! My PH is always lower than 7 so this should be a good trial..Thnx Happi for the post!

happi 06-12-2012 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will5 (Post 1899602)
I wonder how many people are going to be will to try this because it has Urea in it?

most of the top brand have urea in it, Seachem, TPN are some good example, if you had no problem dosing those then you should have no problem dosing this one either.

happi 06-12-2012 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sketch804 (Post 1899620)
sounds nice! ya IDK even where to get urea, but the rest looks good, might have to try this sometime soon! My PH is always lower than 7 so this should be a good trial..Thnx Happi for the post!

Andrew you can buy a urea from ebay very cheap. 1 pound for $6 shipped on [Ebay Link Removed] you might need to buy Mg nitrate and Ca nitrate i know GLA carry them.

Seattle_Aquarist 06-12-2012 03:47 PM

Hi Happi,

Plants absorb their nitrogen first from nitrates, secondly from ammonicial nitrogen sources, and finally from urea. I know that urea is inexpensive but why use a source of nitrogen that plants cannot uptake efficiently?

Hoppy 06-12-2012 05:33 PM

I don't intend to start a war, but I do suggest that you offer a complete dosing scheme, using this mix. That just seems better than telling people that they might need to dose phosphates. What other things, in what dosages, should be used with this?

DarkCobra 06-12-2012 06:09 PM

I can't try it, because I have more than enough nitrogen in all my tanks without dosing any. That's the problem with any all-in-one mix.

One suggestion. You acknowledge that extra K+ will probably be needed. But more K2SO4 probably won't dissolve. So why not add the same amount of Mg from magnesium sulfate (Epsom salts)? That will reduce the NO3 content, which can be made up for with KNO3; increasing the overall K content.

happi 06-12-2012 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkCobra (Post 1899885)
I can't try it, because I have more than enough nitrogen in all my tanks without dosing any. That's the problem with any all-in-one mix.

One suggestion. You acknowledge that extra K+ will probably be needed. But more K2SO4 probably won't dissolve. So why not add the same amount of Mg from magnesium sulfate (Epsom salts)? That will reduce the NO3 content, which can be made up for with KNO3; increasing the overall K content.

the goal was trying to avoid too much kno3 while keeping the Mg and Ca in the solution, i was trying to keep everything in good amount, the main source of nitrogen from this solution is Urea, Kno3 is something i extracted from Mg and Ca nitrate, if i added this from kno3 only then i wont able to add mg and ca nitrate or i will have to add it in less amount. the point was to avoid too much kno3 while keeping everything else in the solution. K2SO4 was used separate for the same reason, to avoid too much kno3, it does dissolve fine in the 1000ml solution.

you have to try the solution first then we will find out for sure.

happi 06-12-2012 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoppy (Post 1899849)
I don't intend to start a war, but I do suggest that you offer a complete dosing scheme, using this mix. That just seems better than telling people that they might need to dose phosphates. What other things, in what dosages, should be used with this?

hoppy i did gave the complete dosing scheme, am not going to tell the kids if they have 25g tank then they should dose 10ml and if they have 10g then they should dose 4ml etc, they can do this their own, how hard can this be. i never said they might need to add this or that, i said they have to add K+ and P, we all add K+ during water changes and P can be added 3x week just like EI. i have mentioned all this already. i already said the dosing is for 50g high tech tank 20ml per day, now they can cut down to their own tanks size.

if Newies have problem they can simply ask

happi 06-12-2012 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seattle_Aquarist (Post 1899723)
Hi Happi,

Plants absorb their nitrogen first from nitrates, secondly from ammonicial nitrogen sources, and finally from urea. I know that urea is inexpensive but why use a source of nitrogen that plants cannot uptake efficiently?

you are completely wrong my friend, plant uses NH4 before any other source, in my dosing i could have included NH4 but after testing it out, i only included algae in my tank and plus its risky business. Urea is similar to NH4 but instead it breaks down into NH4 inside the plant and they use it right away. if plant don't use it it turns into nitrate in matter of minutes, good bacteria does this. nitrate can be taken up by plants but at much slower rate, i have included nitrate in my solution just in case if plant do absorb all the urea, you will still have nitrate source to back it up for the plants.

m8e 06-12-2012 07:05 PM

I'm playing around with Fert/WC regimes in libre office calc, and made a chart of NO3 content(ppm or mg/l) with this dosing regime. (20ml/day, 50% wc every 2 weeks in a 50g tank) I think the urea doubles the nitrogen(?), so it looks quite good. But there is a risk that the nitrogen gets really high in some tanks.
http://i50.tinypic.com/e7z5lg.png

happi 06-12-2012 07:07 PM

Darkcobra

if you meant to say why dose 20-30K+ which will not dissolve, are you saying in the solution or in the tank?? because i meant to say dose those amounts during water changes to the tank, not from the solution but dry dose it from K2SO4.

happi 06-12-2012 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m8e (Post 1899939)
I'm playing around with Fert/WC regimes in libre office calc, and made a chart of NO3 content(ppm or mg/l) with this dosing regime. (20ml/day, 50% wc every 2 weeks.) I think the urea doubles the nitrogen(?), so it looks quite good. But there is a risk that the nitrogen gets really high in some tanks.
http://i50.tinypic.com/e7z5lg.png

how high can it be?? 30ppm 40ppm 50ppm?? Urea will no longer remain Urea in the water, it will convert into nitrate within hours, soon as you add it to the tank, plants goes for right away. any urea left behind convert into nitrate, second source of nitrogen for plants. EI people knows how high you can go with the nitrates without any problems, they do it all the time.

m8e 06-12-2012 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by happi (Post 1899950)
how high can it be?? 30ppm 40ppm 50ppm?? Urea will no longer remain Urea in the water, it will convert into nitrate within hours, soon as you add it to the tank, plants goes for right away. any urea left behind convert into nitrate, second source of nitrogen for plants. EI people knows how high you can go with the nitrates without any problems, they do it all the time.

Didn't think of that. But this basically double the brown line(~60ppm peak). But that is for tanks that doesn't need to be dosed.:icon_wink

I think this theoretical peak for normal EI is 45ppm. So 60ppm maybe isn't that high?


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