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-   -   Spectral Analysis for LEDs for use over planted aquaria; Graphs here! (http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=136519)

redfishsc 05-08-2011 07:01 PM

Spectral Analysis for LEDs for use over planted aquaria; Graphs here!
 
Here are some graphs that we put together using a spectrometer.

Here is the spectrometer we used, an OceanOptics S2000.
http://www.oceanoptics.com/Products/s2000.asp


I have about 28 total graphs, half of which is really good for reef keepers so I won't post them here, but you can see them in my photobucket account here:
http://s919.photobucket.com/albums/a...ING/?start=all

Or at nano-reef.com here:
http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/inde...&#entry3365300

Some info on testing I am editing this post to include.

Quote:

Distance from the LED to the radiometer sensor was 12" in all of these cases; the sensor was not moved and the LEDs all used the exact same mounting bracket to hold them steady. I build 3 small wooden holders to hold them steady on their temporary heatsinks (1/2" thick, 1" square acrylic/Corian bricks with doublesided FastCap SpeedTape).

No secondary optics were used in any of the graphs listed above. Only 1 graph that has not yet been posted used optics, and it is a comparison of "with/without" optics on a Rebel 3-up. I am awaiting further data for this one.

Cree XPG and XPE LEDs, Bridgelux LEDs, and Rebel LEDs: Primary optic angle 120 degrees.
Cree XRE- 90 degrees.
Satistronics 3w, 10w, and 20w emitters: 140 degrees.

Here are the graphs we got for LED combinations I think will be useful for us.

Note this: I am fairly confident that ANY of the white LEDs in the graphs below will grow plants just fine so make your selection based on what you think will look good. Don't frustrate yourself over picking the right color. ----- that is, unless you are trying to get them to bloom or seed or something else that requires manipulation of color temp.


http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...warm_white.jpg

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...e_XPG_nw-1.jpg

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a..._CoolWhite.jpg

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a..._purewhite.jpg

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...0wclass_cw.jpg

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a..._Purewhite.jpg

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a..._white_20w.jpg

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...tistronics.jpg

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a..._coolwhite.jpg

COMBINATIONS OF WHITES OR WHITE/BLUE
http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...w_ww_combo.jpg

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...w_nw_combo.jpg

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...w_rb_combo.jpg

redfishsc 05-08-2011 07:09 PM

And let me say my favorite graph was the last one (warm white, cool white, royal blue), and it's the one I will probably use on my 11g rimless build coming up soon.

plantbrain 05-08-2011 08:12 PM

These look pretty good as far as growing plants, colors for our eyes?
Have to try them and see.
Looks promising though.

redfishsc 05-08-2011 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plantbrain (Post 1382615)
These look pretty good as far as growing plants, colors for our eyes?
Have to try them and see.
Looks promising though.

Thanks, and I'm so glad you were the first person to respond here. You must have a Google auto-search set up here :D.

As for our eyes, I prefer the higher K temp look. Right now I'm using a reef-recycled 1:1 cool white/royal blue over my 11g rimless and even at equal power to both colors, it's not too bad. Too blue, but not terrible.

I prefer to dim the blues down to about 24% of the whites, but I suspect running them all at equal currents in a 1:1:1 (cool white, warm white, royal blue) will look very, very nice. We'll find out in a couple months when I change my LED setup.

BlueJack 05-08-2011 08:51 PM

Great post!!

shortsboy 05-08-2011 09:43 PM

Absolutely wonderful! Thanks for putting in the time and effort both to run the tests and to graph it out so cleanly.

Not being an engineer, I'm still a bit lost on the y-axis of the graph; is that radiant flux? Can the y-axes be superimposed, or are they relative units? If they're a function of distance, at what distance were they measured?

Thanks again, and can't wait to see how your led setup looks once you get around to it. I'm also a blue-y kind of guy for lighting, so this is very useful stuff.

audioaficionado 05-08-2011 10:10 PM

I didn't see it among your photo bucket shots, but I'm trying to imagine the combination of CREE WW & CW LEDs. Great job getting this done and posted in a very useful format that we can get a good idea what the PAR curves are.

redfishsc 05-08-2011 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shortsboy (Post 1382692)
Not being an engineer, I'm still a bit lost on the y-axis of the graph; is that radiant flux? Can the y-axes be superimposed, or are they relative units? If they're a function of distance, at what distance were they measured?


The y-axis is some unit of intensity. I will email my friend and double check, but I believe he said that it's basically a unit of intensity that the spectrometer uses but is otherwise an arbitrary unit.

I'll email him and see what he says. A PAR reading would be nicer though. We were not able to get PAR data due to time constraints (that would have taken a long time with all these LEDs).


Quote:

Originally Posted by audioaficionado (Post 1382721)
I didn't see it among your photo bucket shots, but I'm trying to imagine the combination of CREE WW & CW LEDs. Great job getting this done and posted in a very useful format that we can get a good idea what the PAR curves are.


My mistake. The NW/WW combo was mislabled. I never did a WW/NW combo because they are so similar.

I fixed it in the post above. Here is the correct image.
http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...w_ww_combo.jpg

audioaficionado 05-09-2011 12:22 AM

Thanx. Now I see why you might want to add some RB LEDs to bring up the blue peak a bit more. I'm really liking the straight CREE XM-L CWs more now.

redfishsc 05-09-2011 12:30 AM

I haven't tried them over a tank yet, but you oughta see them at 3 amps. Actually, you ought NOT see them at 3 amps. It's ludicrous. Really ludicrous.

plantbrain 05-09-2011 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redfishsc (Post 1382731)
The y-axis is some unit of intensity. I will email my friend and double check, but I believe he said that it's basically a unit of intensity that the spectrometer uses but is otherwise an arbitrary unit.

I'll email him and see what he says. A PAR reading would be nicer though. We were not able to get PAR data due to time constraints (that would have taken a long time with all these LEDs).





My mistake. The NW/WW combo was mislabled. I never did a WW/NW combo because they are so similar.

I fixed it in the post above. Here is the correct image.
http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...w_ww_combo.jpg

A PAR meter is a quick easy thing and someone will get it some time at some point, that I am less worried about.

It can depend on the lens, the spread, driver and area etc more so than say T5 lights.........

You can predict the PAR somewhat based on the graph, but not that much really. You need the lens type, area, distance and pattern of lamps, this can vary all over the place.

Hoppy 05-09-2011 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plantbrain (Post 1382828)
A PAR meter is a quick easy thing and someone will get it some time at some point, that I am less worried about.

It can depend on the lens, the spread, driver and area etc more so than say T5 lights.........

You can predict the PAR somewhat based on the graph, but not that much really. You need the lens type, area, distance and pattern of lamps, this can vary all over the place.

Tom, I don't believe anyone can predict the PAR at all based on those graphs. There is no absolute value assigned to the vertical axis, and, without that, the graphs are just more illustrations of what the manufacturers provide in their specs for each LED. I would infinitely rather see PAR numbers at various distances, both from the LED on center, and at distances from the center, and at 3 different LED currents. With those numbers it is easy to predict the PAR for any current, any number and spacing of the LEDs.

Unfortunately it also requires a set of those numbers for each optic that would be used, a 60 degree and a 40 degree at minimum. I'm really looking forward to seeing that type of data.

redfishsc 05-09-2011 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plantbrain (Post 1382828)

You can predict the PAR somewhat based on the graph, but not that much really. You need the lens type, area, distance and pattern of lamps, this can vary all over the place.


Good points. I shall update the original post to include some of this, but I'll recap it here also.


Distance from the LED to the radiometer sensor was 12" in all of these cases; the sensor was not moved and the LEDs all used the exact same mounting bracket to hold them steady. I build 3 small wooden holders to hold them steady on their temporary heatsinks (1/2" thick, 1" square acrylic/Corian bricks with doublesided FastCap SpeedTape).



No secondary optics were used in any of the graphs listed above. Only 1 graph that has not yet been posted used optics, and it is a comparison of "with/without" optics on a Rebel 3-up. I am awaiting further data for this one.


Cree XPG and XPE LEDs, Bridgelux LEDs, and Rebel LEDs: Primary optic angle 120 degrees.

Cree XRE- 90 degrees.

Satistronics 3w, 10w, and 20w emitters: 140 degrees.

redfishsc 05-09-2011 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoppy (Post 1382857)
I would infinitely rather see PAR numbers at various distances, both from the LED on center, and at distances from the center, and at 3 different LED currents. With those numbers it is easy to predict the PAR for any current, any number and spacing of the LEDs.

Unfortunately it also requires a set of those numbers for each optic that would be used, a 60 degree and a 40 degree at minimum. I'm really looking forward to seeing that type of data.

We did plan on doing that but were limited for time. Meanwhile, Joe has received some INCREDIBLY good news that he is now going to work for SeCore in Curacao. So he'll be flying off here in the next couple of weeks and we won't be doing any PAR data together.

There are other PAR meters around here though, just none that are as nice as the LiCore. They are all Apogee Quantums which is plenty sufficient for us, we don't need the decimal points that the LiCore can give. If I can get my hands on a cheap benchtop power supply that can hold these LEDs at a rock-steady current, I can probably get PAR data for some of the more common LED types.

No promises though. I wish I could promise :icon_conf

redfishsc 05-09-2011 01:15 AM

Tom, which graph looks more compelling to you, in regards to spectral output. I know this varies from plant to plant, so assume a "general mixed tank" sort of situation.


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